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Got a nasty surprise after taking her out of storage today: Sudden shut-offs.
The car has been stored for 3-4 months, battery out of the car, and I went by today to drive her a bit and prepare for possibly going out of town mid-week. The weather is nice and mild for it right now.
I hooked the battery up, and immediately the car fired. No sputtering, no shaking, perfect idle. The car was fully tuned up earlier this year, so this wasn't necessarily a surprise.
After idling for about a minute, though, it shut off. I don't mean she went sputter-sputter-cough-spit-off, I mean it was like someone reached up and turned the key off. This has never happened before on this car.
So I fired it back up. Same deal. About 30 seconds, bam, shut off. Then she started getting hard to crank.
Finally I got it cranked and let her sit there idling for a good 3-4 minutes. I cautiously backed the car out of the garage, pulled out onto the street ... and made it exactly 1/10 of a mile up the road when, under solid acceleration, it quit. Immediately.
I coasted into a driveway, and this time had a lot of trouble getting it restarted. Finally she fired to life and I quickly took her back to the garage. About halfway down the driveway to the garage, she quit one last time. This time I had to push her manually back into the garage.
This is a Lucas, not a Marelli car. Not sure about the health of the fuel pump but at least I can say it made no noise today. I'm going to have to get it towed to a shop. Anyone have any suggestions to tell the shop when it arrives?
The 'could be' list might get a little long. Hopefully it'll stay non-running long enough for them to zero-in on the cause.
A few quick thoughts....
If it's lacking both spark and fuel injector pulse then suspect something in the primary ignition system....as the injectors rely on a trigger signal from the ignition system to operate. Ignition module, pickup coil, coil wiring, ignition switch...things of that nature.
If only injector pulse is lacking suspect the dreaded white wire from the ignition amp
If the fuel pump operates for 2-3 seconds when the key is turned on you'll know the circuit is fundamentally operational. If it fails to run at other times then ground the orange wire at the pump relay. This should make the pump run at all times for diagnosis purposes. Of course, the pump running doesn't prove correct volume or pressure.
Check the wiring and connector at the Coolant Temp Sensor. Poor connections here will kill the engine.
This is scratching the surface; others will add more.
When you said your Fuel Pump made 'No noise today' was that because the ignition was not turned on (ie Car still parked on the driveway)
Or you turned the ignition ON and couldn't hear the Pump Running?
There are some very basic tests you can do but it all depends on how much you don't mind getting your hands dirty, or else having to empty out your Wallet
But there is one thing that I would 100% try before you take her into a Shop, as this has been known to resurrect a non running XJS in a Snap
Down by the Front Headlamp Nacelle is a Silver Box with a Plug in it (The Resistor Pack) and the chances are that its never been touched during the life of the Car
I mean why would you?
But that Plug and Socket (never mind whats in the box) are Vital when it comes to sending a Signal to the Injectors
And if that Plug and Socket has got dirty or corroded over time, then that can really play havoc with the Injectors
So definitely worth giving that Plug and Socket a good clean with a brush and electrical contact cleaner etc and maybe all your troubles will be over.
(It could really be that simple)
The Pics are of the Plug and Socket of the Resistor Pack of my 1989 Marelli but if you have a Lucas set up it should look 'almost the same' within a little
Resistor Pack by the Front Headlight Nacelle
Cleaning the Plug and Socket might be all you need to do to get Her running
This is about 100% sure to be an electrical connection problem, causing either spark or fuel failure. I feel from what you have said ignition is the most likely of the two. You must work methodically, that is the most important aspect. I suggest, in addition to the above good suggestions, to start with:
test for 12 volts at the coil + from the loom
test for definitely good connectors at the coil + and = particularly from the amp wires
carefully inspect the Lucas amp plug into the loom (the dreaded white wire that goes into the shielded part of the loom, the furthest rearwards of the wires exiting the Lucas amp)
test the HT lead from the coil to the dizzy is properly seated
check the wire that come from the bottom of the dizzy to the RHS of the Lucas amp
remove the dizzy cap and inspect all within
If all good, try hotwiring the coil + from a 12 volt source and see if the problem goes away. If it does, the ignition switch is a likely cause.
Greg
When you said your Fuel Pump made 'No noise today' was that because the ignition was not turned on (ie Car still parked on the driveway)
Or you turned the ignition ON and couldn't hear the Pump Running?
I just wanted to follow up on this specific item because I realized I'd stated it badly the first time...
Each of the last three summers, if I'd gone somewhere in the car in very hot weather for a long drive (meaning 3-4 hours or more; I've never been scared to take the car anywhere), the fuel pump would start whining/singing a bit. I'm accustomed to this by now; both my XJSes I've owned have done this, as did my old XJ40.
Yesterday, I did not hear any sounds of duress coming from the fuel pump. I did hear it click on and off, power up, etc. No groaning, whining, nothing like that. I'm certainly still considering that I might have had total fuel pump failure, but it's not my first guess.
One last thing: I've been a member here a long time but I'm not familiar with what people mean by "the dreaded white wire" and what that means. Can someone give me the short take on that?
One last thing: I've been a member here a long time but I'm not familiar with what people mean by "the dreaded white wire" and what that means. Can someone give me the short take on that?
Jess
It's a thin white wire, with braided sheathing, with a black insulation, that runs from the ignition amplifier to the ECU. It's a 'trigger' wire, so to speak, giving the ECU a signal the ignition system is up and running. Without this signal the ECU won't operate the fuel injectors.
The wire is thin and can break inside the insulation.
Here is a Pic of the 'Dreaded Shielding Wire' on my 1989 Marelli XJS V12 your Lucas set up 'may' look a 'bit' similar
But at least it will give you an indication of what the 'Dreaded Shielding Wire' looks like
The so called 'Dreaded Shielding Wire' on my 1989 Marelli XJS V12
However, from the way you describe the 'Symptoms' it is sounding a lot more like a problem with the Fuel Pump
Testing the Fuel Pump is easy, where the hardest part is removing the metal cover that shields it under the Battery (Takes around 10 to 15 mins) quite easy really
Then with the Ignition off (take the key out just to be sure)
Take the Wires off the Fuel Pump (pull off lucas connectors hopefully!)
Then Simply connect a Test Light to those two wires that you just took off the Fuel Pump
Or you could use a Volt Meter or something like that
But make sure those wires do not touch together, or this could create a spark which you do not want, in case there are any Gas Fumes in the Boot/Trunk
So keep them separated with a piece of wood or rubber
If you are doing this on your own, then you want the 'Test Light Wires' long enough so you can see the Test Light, while you are sitting in the Car
Then Turn on the Ignition, or get a mate to do it, while you look at the Test Light
DON'T attempt to Start the Car. (all you want to have are the dash lights on)
The Test Light should Light Up for about 3 Seconds and then go off on its own, without you turning the Ignition off
Rinse and repeat this Test a half dozen times, just to be sure
If the Test Light doesn't light, then it could be the Fuel Pump Relay which Doug's 'Orange Wire Hack' temporarily overrides
Or you could have a 'Duff' Fuel Pump or one that's on the way out and or a Blocked Fuel Filter
Changing the Fuel Pump and Filter, is a very simple job (relatively speaking)
As well as being (Unbelievably Inexpensive!) How come so?
The Fuel Pump on an XJS is Thankfully Generic and fitted to loads of different Cars, so no need to Spend $100/$150 on a New one
I got one off ebay for about £30 (UK) and a New Filter was only £10 and the Pump even had a 2 Year Guarantee!
But sometimes these Generic Fuel Pumps have the Terminals the wrong way round, which means you may have to change the Wires to the Fuel Pump around
Or the Fuel Pump Won't Work! (Again no big deal to change these wires around)
If you're planning to Change the Fuel Pump
Come back because, you want to do this job outside, as there could be Gas Fumes around
Also a good idea to drain the Sump Tank and If you're feeling up to it, then take it out and clean it including the Filter.
The Sump tank is that little Tank under the Battery and the drain tap for it is under the Car.
But a Word of 'WARNING' The Gas is Gravity Fed to the Fuel Pump, so if you were to just pull the Hose off the Pump without draining the Tank First
Then you could have Gallons of Petrol/Gas Flooding all over the Place and you don't want that.
This is a short Video I made of how to Test the Fuel Pump
Generic XJS Fuel Pump (replaces the Lucas one shown in the photo)
Fuel Pump and Filter Setup don't pull any pipes off without draining the Gas Tank or Clamping the Pipe of you will have Petrol going all over the place
When changing the Filter, make sure you put it in the 'Right Way Round' or it Won't Work!
The Drain Tap for the Sump Tank is in that hole which is covered by a rubber grommet and the Tap is undone with a Socket
Always disconnect the Battery before working on the Fuel Pump and don't do this in your Garage because of the Gas Fumes and have a Fire Extinguisher handy just in case
If the fuel pump whines loudly, that is a sign of a blocked filter on the outlet from the sump tank to the pump; or of the tank breather being a bit blocked or the gravity feed pipe from the main tank to the sump tank collapsing internally.
Greg
Does the car run fine until up to Temp? On my xjs it was great at 4c on a rainy morning on hwy...stop at a red light temp jumps up and it cut off like a light switch. In the end it was the front and later the rear cam sensor thingies...
So I printed this thread out and took it to my shop. Literally printed the whole thing out, ads and all, and dropped it with them last Friday. The owner flipped through it and said he'd read it over the weekend and familiarize himself with the location of everything.
They kept it all week and called me this morning. Predictably, they couldn't get the car to replicate the problem (does anyone, ever?). They let it idle up for 45 minutes, drove it, etc. Car ran fine. Of course.
They did find a weeper fuel line, one that crosses at 90 degrees over the top of the left intake. It looks like it feeds a fuel cooler loop? Anyway, it would spurt a bit on startup, and then just soak itself in gasoline.
They also took out the battery, got down to the sump tank, serviced all that. They also replaced the fuel filter.
Total bill: $47.50. Bless these guys.
Car drives great again. Idles more smoothly now than it ever has for me. I hate to admit this to myself but I guess I just let the fuel filter go too long between services. She's sitting out in the garage right now, clean and happy. If nothing else, going through all this to find I had a potential fire hazard brewing under the hood was worth it. The repair cost less than the in-town tow bill ($50).
Thanks to everyone who responded. And you're semi-famous now, with my shop referring to your suggestions while they did the work.
After another month in storage, the issue started happening again. This time it died in the garage altogether and I was able to tow it to the shop and replicate the problem.
Turns out it was damage to one of the wires going to the coil, perhaps from a mouse. The damage was on the underside of the wire where I couldn't see it. Replaced wire, it's fine now.
12-10-2017, 10:29 PM
Got a nasty surprise after taking her out of storage today: Sudden shut-offs.
