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Manual Fan or Electric Fans which is best and why?
Its probably a bit late in the day for me to ask that Question, as I am in the process of fitting Twin Electric Fans to my 1990 Pre-facelift XJS V12.
While I was intending to take the easy option of fitting a New Mechanical Fan exactly like the White/Yellow OEM Fan I took off because the existing one was suffering from 'Stress Cracking' They are no longer available in the UK.
With my only other option of a Mechanical Fan was being to fit a 'Black Fan' which some say are stronger but I am not convinced, as the Hub on these is only 'One Inch Wide'
Unlike my Original White/Yellow Fan, where the Hub is not only 'Two Inches Wide' but also has a very strong recessed dish inside the Hub and that kind of Fan has been on my Car for almost 26 years.
So working on the Theory 'You Pays Your Money And Takes Your Choice' I decided to opt out of that and instead fit 'Twin Electric Fans'
Whether I've made the right decision only time will tell but since a fair number of people appear to be doing this, I couldn't see any good reason for not giving it a go.
So having obtained a set of Twin Fans from an XJ40 V12 I made up a Frame to fit them to the Radiator of my Car.
In doing so I fitted these to a Spare (Scrap) Radiator and then trial fitted them into my (Scrap) Car, already for the New Re-cored Rad when it arrives hopefully sometime next week.
Although I am not as mechanically skilled as many others on here, as I am an enthusiast, I did feel duty bound to give it a go.
It was an absolute 'Walk in the Park' but whether or not it does the job, we'll have to wait and see and I will Post an update, as soon as I know either way.
But to those who have already done this or considering going Electric.
We are blessed, and we know it, down here, as the Ford Falcon Efans slide straight in.
Apparently getting these fans outside OZ is a tad awkward, dunno, I live here.
Alternator upgrade, life goes on. The 30 year old Lucas is probably way past retirement age anyway.
We fitted a set of these fans to a Nissan Patrol at work today, all done in 2 hours.
Yours will be just fine, FAITH mate, ya gotta have FAITH.
BUT, and there is always a BUT, If Efans are fitted without removing the radiator and having it rebuilt as needed, then you really are wasting your time. A tad harsh??, maybe, but facts is facts.
We are blessed, and we know it, down here, as the Ford Falcon Efans slide straight in.
Apparently getting these fans outside OZ is a tad awkward, dunno, I live here.
Alternator upgrade, life goes on. The 30 year old Lucas is probably way past retirement age anyway.
We fitted a set of these fans to a Nissan Patrol at work today, all done in 2 hours.
Yours will be just fine, FAITH mate, ya gotta have FAITH.
BUT, and there is always a BUT, If Efans are fitted without removing the radiator and having it rebuilt as needed, then you really are wasting your time. A tad harsh??, maybe, but facts is facts.
Hi Grant
The Rad is going to be Re-Cored but I'm thinking I might need a Shroud to prevent any 'Hot Spots'
How will they operate in regards to a sensor (mine use the water pump). Another question about electric fans, all cooling fans are useless above 25mph. Is there a "moving air wind type sensor" that turns the fans off at speed ? I'm not up on the latest elect. fan technology. But having the fans going full speed (ac on) at 70mpg isn't very productive.
Lawrence
I like a cowl behind my radiators... I had to run my 960 without the cowl in summer one week long as the cowl had broken up. My ever so,cold running 6 cylinder turned into a cooking lump. After fitting a cowl again and with higher ambient temperatures the problem went.
I hve no worry about electrical or mechanical fans, as long as a cowl is around it.
1. The replacement black fan would probably been just fine.
New plastic beats old plastic hands down. And, I think the back stuff
is just better.
But, as the yellow plastic was on it's way to a disaster, no better time to upgrade to Efans.
2. Some say that shrouding the unswept part of the core is essential, others not so much. Your installation doe have a form of shrouding.
The ring around the blades.
And, further, it worked in the donor car, so it should do just fine in its new environment.
3. Temperature control is an issue. A sensor in he block or in the core
to sense temperature and on/off the fans. My GM lump uses a sensor in the block and its PCM to mage the fans. Nigh on to perfection.
4. Have the AC controls turn on the fans. Some say not needed others say not good and some say OK, even if a bit flawed.
5. The fans should not run at highway speeds. Unneeded, big benefit
over the belt driven all times. even if clutch controlled.
6. Yeah, losing originality might bother some. I respect that. But, at what level. No longer original because of a black rather than yellow fan? Somewhere I read that they were white, when new??? Gotta make it white again to be original?
As my lump also has an electric water pump, I can toss it's serpentine belt and limp home. Sans PS, and only as long as the battery lasts, but better than (0) !!!
How will they operate in regards to a sensor (mine use the water pump). Another question about electric fans, all cooling fans are useless above 25mph. Is there a "moving air wind type sensor" that turns the fans off at speed ? I'm not up on the latest elect. fan technology. But having the fans going full speed (ac on) at 70mpg isn't very productive.
Lawrence
Hi Lawrence
I really don't have any idea of how to wire it up but Greg and Grant will help me when the Re-cored Rad turns up.
I like a cowl behind my radiators... I had to run my 960 without the cowl in summer one week long as the cowl had broken up. My ever so,cold running 6 cylinder turned into a cooking lump. After fitting a cowl again and with higher ambient temperatures the problem went.
I hve no worry about electrical or mechanical fans, as long as a cowl is around it.
Hi Daim
I'm checking out Ford Mondeo Fans as they come complete with a cowl.
1. The replacement black fan would probably been just fine.
New plastic beats old plastic hands down. And, I think the back stuff
is just better.
But, as the yellow plastic was on it's way to a disaster, no better time to upgrade to Efans.
2. Some say that shrouding the unswept part of the core is essential, others not so much. Your installation doe have a form of shrouding.
The ring around the blades.
And, further, it worked in the donor car, so it should do just fine in its new environment.
3. Temperature control is an issue. A sensor in he block or in the core
to sense temperature and on/off the fans. My GM lump uses a sensor in the block and its PCM to mage the fans. Nigh on to perfection.
4. Have the AC controls turn on the fans. Some say not needed others say not good and some say OK, even if a bit flawed.
5. The fans should not run at highway speeds. Unneeded, big benefit
over the belt driven all times. even if clutch controlled.
6. Yeah, losing originality might bother some. I respect that. But, at what level. No longer original because of a black rather than yellow fan? Somewhere I read that they were white, when new??? Gotta make it white again to be original?
As my lump also has an electric water pump, I can toss it's serpentine belt and limp home. Sans PS, and only as long as the battery lasts, but better than (0) !!!
Good sleuthing and repurposing !!!!
Carl
Hi Jag Cad
I'm not too much bothered about Originality and I do think that the White Fans, may have turned Yellow with age.
But like you say no better time to experiment with the Electric version, maybe what I've got will work Ok but I will always be on the lookout for something even better.
The most common argument that I see is that mechanical fans put out huge amounts of cfm. While they naturally have more depth, I think this can be easily offset or equaled by the difference in RPM along with the advantage of placement.
Obviously Jaguar already know to take advantage of the placement issue, filling in the void with an electric fan. I think mechanical was simply the more common and trusted tech back in the day.
Today you can get electric fans at a great price that put out a lot of air, especially considering that you need the air at idle, when the mechanical fan will be turning the slowest. Obviously the fan is on a pulley, so the RPM isn't 1:1, but even still.
The added benefit of some lucrative engine bay room is great for the V12, as is reliable movement of air across the radiator at idle. Unless you are really hacking stuff up, it can look pretty much stock and it can easily be undone, so originality isn't much of an issue for us in the DD crowd.
I'll probably make it two whenever I have the free time or money. I replaced my electric fan with a modern one a while back when it broke with just a little bit of cutting on the shroud and it runs cool all the time. With that new $320 radiator available, I would rather invest in a new radiator than screw with the fan setup and at that point the fans probably wouldn't make much of a difference.
I'm a bit different, I like the mechanical fan. It works, and works well, especially in a moderate climate like the UK. A new fan blade every 25 years is cheap. The black one is plenty strong and designed for the V12. I've not yet heard of one failing.
My XJS had electric fans put on the by the PO, and they worked ok, but didn't move nearly the same amount of air as the mechanical. They also had large electrical draw at idle, when the alternator output is the lowest. At idle with the AC on it was draining the battery, as the alternator couldn't keep up.
I assume you'll be wiring in a relay to switch these? I don't think the water pump switch is rated for the current these fans will draw.
After spending $1100 on parts to replace the fan controller in my X Type when it failed at 67,000km I'm a bit biased against electric fans.
To be fair, I'm all for modifying things when there is a good reason to do so, I think for a place like the UK the mechanical setup doesn't need modifying.
Since the 70's the auto company's have been fighting for every bit of fuel efficiency they can find. One result is electric fans. They provide no engine drag except when needed. Electric motors with copper windings, relays, etc. are still more expensive than those aluminum fan clutch assemblies. I'm sure that fan clutches would still be used if not for the fuel savings.
Once the car is in motion either type acts as a restriction to air flow.
The most common argument that I see is that mechanical fans put out huge amounts of cfm. While they naturally have more depth, I think this can be easily offset or equaled by the difference in RPM along with the advantage of placement.
Obviously Jaguar already know to take advantage of the placement issue, filling in the void with an electric fan. I think mechanical was simply the more common and trusted tech back in the day.
Today you can get electric fans at a great price that put out a lot of air, especially considering that you need the air at idle, when the mechanical fan will be turning the slowest. Obviously the fan is on a pulley, so the RPM isn't 1:1, but even still.
The added benefit of some lucrative engine bay room is great for the V12, as is reliable movement of air across the radiator at idle. Unless you are really hacking stuff up, it can look pretty much stock and it can easily be undone, so originality isn't much of an issue for us in the DD crowd.
I'll probably make it two whenever I have the free time or money. I replaced my electric fan with a modern one a while back when it broke with just a little bit of cutting on the shroud and it runs cool all the time. With that new $320 radiator available, I would rather invest in a new radiator than screw with the fan setup and at that point the fans probably wouldn't make much of a difference.
Hi Sidescrollin
Mechanical Fan not turning fast at idle, probably when you need it the most, I'm just a little bit concerned with the current draw on the Alt.
Since the 70's the auto company's have been fighting for every bit of fuel efficiency they can find. One result is electric fans. They provide no engine drag except when needed. Electric motors with copper windings, relays, etc. are still more expensive than those aluminum fan clutch assemblies. I'm sure that fan clutches would still be used if not for the fuel savings.
Once the car is in motion either type acts as a restriction to air flow.
Being lazy, I just purchased a new black blade.
Agreed but you can pick up used Electric Fans for almost next to nothing!
I only paid £30 for mine and it must have cost $$$$$$ when New.
I'm a bit different, I like the mechanical fan. It works, and works well, especially in a moderate climate like the UK. A new fan blade every 25 years is cheap. The black one is plenty strong and designed for the V12. I've not yet heard of one failing.
My XJS had electric fans put on the by the PO, and they worked ok, but didn't move nearly the same amount of air as the mechanical. They also had large electrical draw at idle, when the alternator output is the lowest. At idle with the AC on it was draining the battery, as the alternator couldn't keep up.
I assume you'll be wiring in a relay to switch these? I don't think the water pump switch is rated for the current these fans will draw.
After spending $1100 on parts to replace the fan controller in my X Type when it failed at 67,000km I'm a bit biased against electric fans.
To be fair, I'm all for modifying things when there is a good reason to do so, I think for a place like the UK the mechanical setup doesn't need modifying.
Hi Jagboi
I've still got a Mechanical Fan on my Grey Car and you are right, its so simple and also very reliable as well.
If I could have got hold of a White Fan, it would already be on my other Car by now but as hard as I try, the 'Black Fans' just don't seem to do it for me.
If I could have got hold of a White Fan, it would already be on my other Car by now but as hard as I try, the 'Black Fans' just don't seem to do it for me.
I like the black fan, the blades are longer so they move more air. It was the factory upgrade for the white fans, so I'm ok with using it. I believe it's a different plastic that is stronger.
08-03-2016, 01:47 PM
Manual Fan or Electric Fans which is best and why?
