My poor XJS has a rotten subframe ...
 

Hello everyone. I took the car to a pre-MOT after buying it and the guy gave me the all clear.

What he didn't SOMEHOW see was the gaping big hole in my suspension turret.

https://i.imgur.com/diM8XsV.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...c283181104.jpg



So suffice to say my project went from "easy" to very hard in a matter of minutes for taking off the front offside wheel.

Some of you may recall a teenager buying an XJS facelift - that's me.

It's on a driveway at the moment. So the fix is either: A) Sell the car :icon_sad: or B) drop the subframe on the drive way and place another one in.

By a 16 year old with no experience. Some say "Oh okay well it's a big job but it is just an unbolt job with lots of jacks" and others say "give up and sell".

How ... hard is it?

as most here would say ,if you have that much rust on a Jaguar, you will have much more to go with it!

start looking in many places?

My subframe has a hole in the turret (where the spring contacts the sunframe). I'll have it welded. With your hole I'd be looking at a used subframe instead...

Sills are intact and inner wings are too?

Seriously the pre-MOT felt thorough if only for the very underside of the car?

How the HELL could a professional miss that...........

Before you dive into fixing this I would be checking ALL the potential rust areas, as Ron said with this much rust in the SF you may have swiss cheese in the rest of the car. If you go to the HOW TO quick links Doug wrote up buyers guide which has most of the locations the XJS rusts.

Before you decide or despair, post a pic, or describe precisely where the hole is, please. It also depends on what the rest of the SF is like.


If the worst comes A subframe change is a big job and you will need tools, spring compressor, jacks, a helper, access to a helpful workshop and the car needs to be undercover. On the plus side, it is a chance to go right through the front suspension and fix the lot, ball joints, track rod ends, rack bushes, stub axles, suspension bushes, discs and calipers. You will be looking at about 400 quid in bits, max, if you rebuild the calipers yourself. A lot of cash, but the front end will be good as new.
Greg

Greg click on the link in the OP's first post there is a pic of the holes.

I had a Jag enthusiast around to come view my car and give me some advice (very nice of him :) ) and he said "It's a real shame your subframe has gone because having gone through your car with a flat head screwdriver, most of the car is in fairly decent condition"

But yes - still not a bad idea.

Perhaps as you say - might not be such a bad thing to renew the front suspension? And if I were able to drop a subframe then perhaps there might not be many mechanical tasks I couldn't do? Would be a good personal goal I suppose.

That is more than a hole!

I am surprised the coil spring hasnt punched through the top.

The change of the front subframe is not that difficult really and if you have a workshop manual it will walk you through every step. Yes you will need a few jacks and axle stands but nothing special untill it comes to removing those springs.

A special tool for this is meant to be used if you can find one and then afford the cost of it however i done mine with five lenths of threaded rod with matching nuts and bolts. Four thinner ones for the bottom plate and one larger one through the middle as a back up (belt and braces)

I am work at the moment but will try and post some pics this weekend.

If you buy a complete secondhand subframe with the springs etc still in place you wont even need to worry about it anyway but like i said its not that difficult and if you want a PDF workshop manual message me and i will see if i can post a link to a temp download site with the one i brought.

This will be good experience for you if you are going to look at owning an XJ-S going forward and an ideal time to change out any parts looking worn or seized. Parts can be found cheaper than you might think

Warrjon, thanks for the pointing out the pic.


Dr Seb, that subframe is TOAST, completely un-repairable. But as Newbound say, buying a complete front subframe with or without everything on it, is the best way to go. Ebay is full of them, as are the breakers 9eg Just XJS and loads of others. Good luck with it, but unlike Newbound, I think that it is a very big job to undertake without extra help, tools and an undercover place to do it. Also dangerous to do without all the correct kit, supports, engine support beam etc etc. Maybe your kind enthusiast friend will be able to help get the frame off and on again, and help safely remove the springs; these are the most tricky parts of the job.


By the way, that MOT guy should be removed from his job, that is a red hot MOT fail, I am astonished it was missed. You have had a very lucky escape from a potentially lethal steering/suspension failure.
Greg

Problem of the front subframe is that it can still look OK from below and be completely ruined when looked at from above after dismantling.
Rust develops hidden...

Whew?


I don't get how the Jaguar built in rust deterrent didn't protect that cross member?? Oily in mine!!! But, sound.


The good thing, if that is a proper term, is that complete collapse of the turret would have resulted in dropping the fore and aft member on to the cross member remnant and allowed a "safe' stop.


Way back in my college days, I worked at a full service station after school and in summer time. One of our customers was employed by the post office as a Special Delivery Messenger. His vehicle was a raggedy a... 37 Cadillac Phaeton. It ran perfectly. Well one day, the front wheel came adrift. Across the street from us. Roads service and cell phones did not exist then... So, two of us wheeled the big geared
trolley jack over and got the front end up. We got it out of the street and along the station. Quite fixable, but, I think it met a darker fate. Too bad...


In the instant case, swapping out the whole shebang, hub to hub, rough heavy work, but doable with strong young muscle.


Carl

If you have a drop in replacement part, it isn't much really...

Undo the front large screws, undo the rear brackets, undo the power steering hoses on the power steering pump, support the engine, undo the uts on the engine mounts, undo the steering column, undo the upper shock absorber nuts, undo the brake hoses and done... :) Oh! And the earth wire...

Actually, the V12 cars seem to behave better because indeed the oil dripping from the V12 on the cross member brings in some protection to it, haha
And don't think that Jaguar made efficient rust protection coatings at the time...

Serge:


My car was a 4.2. Plenty of inadvertent rust protection. Engine oil!!!!


I forgot to include the cause of the old Cadillac's failure. The front axle stub busted off the uptight. One piece in USA cars or the the era.
Much later, I was surprised to learn that Jaguar uprights were in two pieces.


Poor old Cad had probably not enjoyed a front wheel bearing grease job for it's entire life....


Carl

Same with mine. Only a slight hole at the top where the spring sat... Otherwise it was coated in loads of oil and there is no rust what so ever... For that though the dirt and grime could be scrapped off and probably pushed through a sieve and be used as oil again ;)

i agree on that, my V12 leaks at the rear ROPE oil seal ,plenty of rust preventive!

no other leaks tho!

Take a good look at the rest of the car. Decide if there is too much rust in the body to make it worth fixing. If you are going to fix it, a parts car would be a good idea. Good luck! Take your time, double check your jacks and supports as you go. Rent or buy a good spring compressor. If your parents or other relatives have a garage you can use, then you will be a very lucky young man. Good luck!

Glad i am not the only one who thinks it not as hard as you might think.

If you end up only getting the subframe without everything attached
DO NOT use standard spring compressors.

Make sure you check the engine bay inside where the red arrows are. As you can see on the left side of pic the sheet metal inside was all gone and behind the water tank on the right side of the pic was even worse

Attachment 151330

Be carefull you dont end up like i did, I started by stripping down the subframes front and rear to replace all suspension parts as she had been parked up for a few years. The more i took off the more i thought i would just do the next bit while i was there and i am now at a point that i have the engine out to weld the rusted engine bay, this led to checking the whole engine bay to find surface rust up under the heat/sound layer (Two blue arrows) all the way up to the brake box. Another might as well do it while im here so brake box out clean, sand, rust proof, prime and waiting for topcoat and clear.

I have also fallen into an attempted complete engine rebuild "while im here again" just to find it was to far gone on the crank shaft and have now purchased another engine lol.

Like i said you have to be carefull you might get swept away with what started for me as a light restoration two years ago

Just found a pic of under the sound/heat proofing and all be it not the best welding of the pasenger side plate


Attachment 151331


Attachment 151332


If you want a copy of my workshop manual PM me your email address and i can send you a copy.

Same goes for anyone else who wants a copy. Its a PDF file 28mb in size

I have almost the exact same Rust Features.. 1985 XJSC..
New metal being slowly stitched in.
Both Sub frame turrets and now inner guards..

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...2eb801125a.jpg

LHS Turret on removal - note inner spring platform also disintegrating. Metal has now been replaced inside and out here

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ed97f4eb1d.jpg
RHS Inner guard Rust removed.



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...68ed6049a9.jpg

RHS Inner guard repair panel in place. awaiting refinishing back to body colour