Cambo, did you have any success adding the XF amp to your XK?

 

The amp is sitting there on my workbench along with a half dozen other projects that are fighting each other for priority...

But for sure it will "work" since the head unit and other MOST network modules in the XK are the same as the XF.

 

Had a chance to look at this a bit more.

The speaker connector plugs on the XF/LR2 amp are different to the XK.

Also the XF/LR2 amp has two connectors on it for speakers, the surround speakers are on a separate connector.

So I will have to make up an adaptor harness of some sort to avoid cutting wires or unpinning the factory speaker connector in the XK. This will cost a bit, and take some time... I can buy the connectors, just need to decide if I want to do it or not.

Funny enough the speaker connector on the XK amp is the same as the one on the Harmon Kardon Logic7 amp used in the LR3, LR4 and Range Rover Sport up to 2011... I know the Land Rover amp won't work though, because there is only one Surround mode in the Logic7 amps, and there is a mismatch between the LR amp and the Jag head unit / touchscreen for this surround mode (been there, tried that before).

Something else I realised recently, after doing another B&W Surround retrofit in an XF.

There is a DSP function in the XK B&W system;




This is not there in the XF B&W system;



Nor is it in the LR2.

This DSP is going to be part of the software in the amp, same as the Surround modes, 3-channel, Dolby, etc.

In the XK the sound is "least crap" with it set to the front, so I don't really hear the rear speakers, same as turning the Surround level down a bit.

Not sure how this affects things right now, but it is another difference between the two...

The more I think about it, the more I get disheartend with the whole thing...

 

Dont burn your brain- have plenty of good news.

Its good to be disheartened as you are experiencing firsthand the gravity of the numerous challenges. Now the solutions will make sense. Incidentally, you have only discovered half the problems. The thing that is loosely being called 'DSP' is responsible for the phase or timing between the tweeter and midrange. See, for the tweeter to remotely work at such close proximity to the listener, while the midrange is on another planet, there needs to be tremendous amounts of delay applied to the tweeter. That is also in that 'dsp'.

Without electronic correction, the position where the tweeter can be is behind the midrange- it is presently 3 feet in front if you eliminate the dsp. Which will further aggravate the problem of a recessed midrange.

They do have that phase between the tweeter and midrange wrong. Thats why the highs are so overpowering and drowning out the midrange.

Having pointed out the precise problem, will send you a pm on an experimental fix, you be the judge if its worth sharing with others.

 

Cambo,
We both made one crucial error that I was corrected on by some of the best designers in this game.
The best location for the midrange is by the foot- in a car, if you consider all other calculations and drawbacks of each.

 

I think CES is over, any announcements?

 

How can that even be possible if the tweeter is not on a separate channel?

In the XK the tweeter and the bass/full-range speaker in the front door are on the same channel from the amp.

In the XF and LR2 the tweeter and the midrange are on the same channel from the amp.

The later models like the F-Type have three separate channels to each front door, each speaker has it's own channel, I can see that working on those cars, but not on the XK....

Unless a delay for high frequencies is done in that one full range channel, which seems crazy to me...

 

I have read most of the thread posts. The problem is when we try to hit elephant with hammer. a canon is needed for that.


I am 98.5% sure that bad sound on XK is because of
1) wrong physical locations and wrong xover points slopes(or absence of them) and because of that-
2) bad frequency response. by saying bad i mean 14db+ or so. and some prolematics range( 14db in 40hz is not so bad as 14db in 2khz)


all other things is second priority and do not change anything esentialy. addint more powerfull amps will not solve problems .


at this pointnon linear discortions, S/N ratio, MP3 looses ar not valid. I could bring a 14 000EUR DAC from my home conect it with Nordost cables even put pass labs xa200.5 amps and sound still be like ****. because problem is elsewhere.




someone who have xk need to do job what should be done with JLR-BW enginiers- TRICK our ears. in passenger car there is not way to have high sound. we just can trick our ears. I do not have XK but maybe we will work with Cambo on that remotelly.


XF does not suffer from any fundamential design error so there is point to improove front end quality(done that) and probbaly power amp section(will plan to do this)

 

Digital radio, premium sound & iPod connectivity in a XK ...amazing !!!

Thank you Cambo

 

What Steve is referring to is last weekend we retrofitted Premium Sound, DAB+ Digital Radio and the Portable Audio iPod/USB interface to his 2007 XK.



Original amp & sub from a 2007 donor, with a custom wiring harness for the speakers.



Original Alpine-branded centre speaker



Door bass speakers taken out of a Freelander2 / LR2 with the Alpine branded audio. I made some adaptors because the plugs are different on these speakers.



Alpine badges for the door speaker grilles, these were brand new spares from Land Rover




Original Alpine branded tweeters taken out of an X-Type.



Portable Audio module and DAB+ module fitted, used a Volvo cable to run from the module to the armrest in the centre console.



Volvo to the rescue LOL



Pulled the touchscreen out of my XKR and put it in Steve's XK (then put his screen in mine to update the software). Got a Premium head unit from an XF, did the necessary programming, and it all works great!



Now...

We did not change the rear 165mm speakers in the back, they are still the original "base" spec ones.

The only other difference is using the Land Rover speakers in the doors.

This system sounds WAY BETTER than the factory B&W system in my XKR. It's unbelieveable... and very frustrating at the same time.

The sound is much more natural, less processed, more audiophile. The 3-channel setting sounds great, the Dolby setting doesn't sound as good.

What blew my mind is that the rear speakers sound great! in my XKR with the B&W I have the rears turned off because they sound like garbage, now in this XK they sound really good and add a nice touch of surround.

Amazing really.

So I think the next step for me, is to flash the "Alpine" software into my amp, and maybe try fitting the XF B&W speakers to the doors. Or replace all the speakers with Alpine ones...

 

Cambo, did you tried diferent amplifier in your car which do have bad sound? I think best is do this in science- practice way(not shooting around) way- put system in dolby, set to neutral , conect to aux in measuring system and measure all woofers, tweeters nearfield response IN CAR which sounds BETTER than yours. then repeat the same in yours and comapre measurements. nearfield measurements can tell much more than ears. I will send microphone for measurements. so wait a litle bit and we will be there.


ps. my xf always sound best in dolby mode, 3 chanels is slightly worse and two channels sounds like junk. I have found one XKR localy for sale i will call and ask if i canmeasure this car(assume all xkr have bowers wilkins?)

 

I'll be updating my 07 MY from Base to Premium. Following Cambo's directions in this and his other post explaining the process.

Taking my sweet time because I have to move the car to get to the passenger's side, then move it back at the end of the day as the wife doesn't want me parking her Cadillac SRX on the lift in case I'm not there to back it out.

It's 40 degrees today. That's Fahrenheit fellas, but warm enough to get to work. By tomorrow, I should know what wiring/ cables are in place and which will have to be made.

 

I'll be reaching out to Cambo for some harnesses. I also have some questions:









Lastly, no fiber optics, so I will be measuring tomorrow and ordering the cable.

 

Well duh. I looked at the wiring diagram for the base unit and the speaker plug at the back of the IAM (IP058) ends at CA 116, so there is no need to do anything with them.

Allright, I have some harnesses to build and Cambo gave me some direction to look for parts. This will take awhile.

I need the power connector at the AMP
Pins to connect the new center speaker and subwoofer
Pin for the power supply @ the Aux junction box
Fiber Optic cable

 

Hehe. I have Premium sound!. Thanks to Cambo for your help on the CCF and the harness info. I still need to mount the amp fan and put my mess back together, but a little CCR Midnight Special cranked will motivate me.

I'll swap out the door speakers and tweeters a bit later in the spring.

A couple of things to note. Only the base speaker wiring is there when you pull the carpet tub and the false toe board. On my car (LHD), no center speaker wiring was present so I had to add a harness. It's probably easiest to lift the front of the dash to fish it through but I used a bore scope and followed the alarm harness through the drivers side and then across to the amp, avoiding the passenger airbag and the need to mess with brittle defroster vents.
Pins for the amp speakers (center speaker and sub woofer) are expensive.
The amp power plug is hard to come by, and also expensive SOT-45.
Fiber Optic cable isn't here either So CA117 and CA119 aren't run. You'll need about 52 inches of cable. You also need to add a splice to fit into the FO loop (between the Touch screen and the ICM). This will be about $75 if you don't want to wait 6 weeks from Aliexpress or Amazon.
Lastly, you need to wire the cooling fan (60 mm 12 volt) back to the Aux function box.

So with that, if you can, I say hire it out. Check with Cambo first as he builds harnesses.

I should have her reassembled this week and will get on with the Nav Maps and the case of the mysterious missing Brit voice.

 

Looked at this thread quite a while ago, and caught up on it from a reference from a recent post. It seems that Queen and Country through a company he is associated with, was going to have some sort of commercial device that would address what he feels to be extensive DSP issues with the Jaguar systems. It looks like his last post to this thread was back in jan. Is there any update from him forthcoming or perhaps he has continued this on a different thread?

 

 

I wondered the same thing. He was pretty adamant about solving the crummy sound riddle pre-CES and very quiet since. It's unlike him to not participate in this kind of discussion and, as you say, I hope all is well with him.

Also, the forum doesn't appear to have a way to 'tag' posters to alert them to "get in a thread". Hope he spots it when he returns.

 

.... or he realized he was just full of smoke and he's now hiding.

 

Just sent him a PM. I know I get an email when I get a PM, so we'll see if he does too.