5 General questions re 1997 V8
 

This is an offshoot of another current thread about mistakes made trying to correct a tapping noise. The other thread write up is probably too long, so I'll start here with questions.

1. The documentation states to crank the engine clockwise when testing/adjusting/setting timing.. Is clockwise set when you face the engine looking toward the back of the car? Cranking from that direction would tighten the harmonic balancer bolt. Logic says that is the most sensible direction.

2. When hand cranking, the flex plate used to set the cam timing appears to turn counter clockwise - that is the reason for question 1.

3 Can a VVT assembly make a loud ticking noise ?

4. Why would a new version 3 secondary cam tensioner spring collapse overnight ? - it takes up to a minute for the oiling assembly to fill it up

5. The engine has 43000 miles on it. How likely would it be for a piston wrist pin to develop enough free play to make a ticking noise.

I have been fighting this loud "tappet like" noise for this last driving season. It cut way into the pleasure of using the car.

I am currently faced with the apparent necessity of uncovering the primary chain assemblies. The car was sold as having new chains and tensioners, but I no longer trust the ability of the "installer" to have done a quality job.
I have and and have used the secondary chain setting tools, but need to get the puller for the harmonic balancer.

Have you checked the valve clearances? I am in Barrie Ont. Can lend you the puller.

Clockwise from the front is to avoid bearing damage. Just accept it. A VVT can cause noise, but I have no experience there. It is unlikely that a wrist pin could be a problem, but if the engine was starved for oil anything is possible.

I have the VVT noise and it makes a ticking at idle, but when you blip the throttle the tensioner solenoids open at about 1700 rpm and the noise disappears. It will then idle quietly for a minute or so before the ticking reappears. Is that what you are experiencing?

Thank you for your responses -

The ticking originally would start after 5 minutes of operation - now it appears right away

Here are the compression test results Left Bank cylinder 1 170 Right Bank cylinder 1 180
2 175 2 180
3 175 3 185
4 170 4 185 the engine was cod for the test

all 32 valve clearance were checked 3 different times

Bank B (driver side) intake valves al measured .18 mm
Bank B exhaust valves are at Cylinder 1 .25mm .25mm cylinder 2 .3mm .3 mm cylinder 3 .25mm .25mm cylinder 4 .25mm .25mm

Bank A intake cylinder 4 .2mm .2mm cylinder 3 .2mm .18mm cylinder 2 .2mm .18mm cylinder 1 .18mm .15mm

Bank A exhaust 4 .23mm .23mm 3 .23mm .18mm 2 .2mm .18mm 1 .18mm .15mm

I live near Chatham, Ontario, but we have a son who lives in the Toronto area. If sourcing the puller gets too crazy, I will take you up on your kind offer

The car is stored now in my unheated garage so the job may have to wait for warmer weather.

The basic question about rotation is not a complaint - just verification of the correct way to spin.

In regards to the VVT assembly, the tapping noise is constant and does get a bit quieter when rpm are increased. I have set the tension on both secondary chains twice with no effect on the noise.

The sound of the tapping can be simulated if you tap sharply on the face of your wrist watch. If this were an American V8 it would be the sound of a bad lifter. I'm coming to the conclusion that there must be an issue with the primary chain - the noise has no "home" location, but seems a bit louder on the driver's side. I cannot detect any apparent exhaust leaks.

I was running 10 W 30 oil for this past season - probably did just 700 km this year. I switched to 5 W 40 thinking the noise would quiet, but if anything it is louder.

It's oil pressure that drives the guides of the tensioners up when the car is running... When the car is off, no oil pressure, tensioners relax.

I have 2001 xkr. Had a tapping issue. SOunded like a lifter Ended up being a leak in one of the EGR pipes at the back of the motor on pass side. Fyi

DO NOT attempt to loosen the harmonic balancer bolt using the Crankshaft Holding Tool to keep the crankshaft from rotating as damage to the flex plate is the result. Use a piece of the serpentine belt cut to surround the harmonic balancer pulley with a chain spanner (wrench) to hold the crankshaft from rotating anti clock when loosening the bolt.

When using a puller to remove the balancer pulley, use caution to not puncture the timing cover with the puller bolts. Use the 24mm pulley bolt or another means to protect the crankshaft end and threads from damage by the puller.

Be sure to use the correct engine oil meeting Jaguar specification for the MY as the specification is more important to keep modern engines correctly lubricated. Using oil with higher viscosity can cause the VVT units to not function correctly.

It is possible for a gudgeon pin to wear causing the type of knock you describe. Some time ago I took apart an AJ28 that had a piston strike a valve due to wear in the pin and small end bearing.

This^^^^^^ x10

I did both. My first job ever on a car was the heads and I made BOTH mistakes. The cover, bad, but NOT as bad as even a 1 to 2mm warping of the flex plate. What a PITA reminder on cold starts til,,,, well til I swapped motors a couple days ago.

Never considered that first point... Thanks for teaching!

And, can you say a bit more about the second point. What that pin is...?

Hello, The owner's manual indicates possible oils to be 15 W 40, - 10 W 30, - 5 W 30. Therefore my choice of 5 W 40 may indeed be outside of spec. I consulted Jagbits. There they say Jaguar is connected to Castrol and that desired oil is 5 W 30 but that 5 W 40 is allowed.
We took a video of the 'noise' ands are now attempting to get it into the youtube universe.

Other possible cause would be an exhaust leak - nothing evident when placed on a hoist at a muffler shop. It could still be a bad gasket right at the exhaust manifold to head location.

A summary re this car's history. Owner one bought it new and used it in Toronto until there was a low speed/ relatively soft front end collision. The second owner bought the car at auction still with the damage. His business involves buying damaged cars, fixing them and reselling. He replaced both front headlight assemblies , had the original hood straightened and had the car repainted. He had it for 11 years and apparently did just enough maintenance to make it driveable. Average usage estimate is 1800 miles per year. The safety check found no structural problems - just the motor mounts.

I bought the car using more emotion than logic. I was told about the "easy" problems, but not al of the important ones. Here is a list of my fixes
New radio antenna assembly
both motor mounts were broken
new speakers in the rear for deteriorated paper cones - the front ones need to be new as well
new battery
cruise control will not activate - error code says the ground point has too high a resistance value - I'm still trying to find the location of said logic ground
When the tapping started my mechanic change the oil to 10 W 30 with and additive. The tapping was quiet for 10 miles, then returned.
I did some problem determination and found a noise at the coi for bank B, cylinder 2. It turned out to be a bad coil but by then I had changed both exhaust cam followers for that cylinder

I'm sorry for the long time between responses. I got a video of the tapping noise to youtube. Here is the link
As far as the oil issue, I put about 25 kilometers on the car before garaging it for the winter.

I ordered the secondary tools used to remove the balancer bolt and balancer pulley - from England no less. If the weather permits I will start the project to access the primary chains. I'm down to believing the primaries were not set with correct tension. The tensioners are version 3 - with metal bodies.Despite comments to the contrary I expect one of the chains is slack enough to cause the cams to turn "late" - possibly allowing piston / valve contact.

I wish to praise AST UK tools . They provide both sets of tools to be used with the chain replacement. I received the set in Canada after just four days. They provide excellent customer service. Please note - I have no connection with this company, just praise.

Understand buying using emotion rather than logic. Bought an attractive car w/ 72k miles for 4,300. Cheap purchase but the repairs are expensive. Doing my own work no longer an option. Good luck w/ the repairs on your car. Great cars once the problems are sorted out.

It is likely most obvious to you with the engine in front of you, but have you eliminated the basics:

• Briefly run the engine without the accessory belt to see if the noise is coming from an accessory, idler or tensioner.
• Belt off, rotate all the accessories by hand and check for roughness, play in the bearings, etc.
• Do a smoke test of the entire intake and exhaust paths. Visual inspection is not enough.
• Use a mechanics stethoscope and try to locate the origin of the noise with more precision These cheap tools are surprisingly effective.
• Open the oil pan and check the oil pump pickup for plastic bits from the original primary tensioners.

Then there are the more long shot scenarios:

• Consider one of those oil additive cleaners like Seafoam (add to the oil for 100 miles before an oil change).
• Double check your oil filter has that non-return flap
• Put a gauge somewhere (oil pressure switch?) and check oil pressure
• Re-read what you can about the re-installation of the VVTs during the primary chain job. From memory (never done this myself), there is an internal spring to preload before installation for proper operation. IOW, I believe these can be reinstalled incorrectly.
• Use a laser thermometer and poke around. Check if the exhaust manifolds are roughly the same temp to see if you have a problem with a plugged converter.

As the car has both a crank and cam angle sensors, would you be able to use software tools to support your theory about a primary chain being off?

Best of luck, keep us posted.

Easy way to test the VVT solenoid. Remove neg lead on the battery. I bought a small 12V battery used in large flash lights. Remove the connector to the solenoid. Using test wires from the small battery attach the positive wire to the small connection on the solenoid and use the negative wire to touch the other connector. Remove and touch the connector several times. You should hear a clicking sound each time you touch and remove the wire. This tells you that the solenoid is working. No sound. It's not working. This can cause a tappet like noise. My '99 has 97,000 mi. I went to using OW-40 oil and it worked. I also went back to a Jaguar oil filter. The few dollars more just gave me peace of mind. Also, if your battery is old change it. These cars are very sensitive to proper voltage. Make sure it has the proper amperage for the car.
Hope this helps
Good Luck
Mitch