Hi, I live in Southern California (the steering wheels are on the left side of the car here haha) and a relatively inexpensive 1997 XK8 is up for sale, and in the ad, the car apparently has trouble that the owner says could be timing chain tensioners or a piston problem.

I have looked into the cost of both jobs, and the work, and would be fine tackling the tensioners. Pistons... maybe if I can talk him down a bit haha.

When I asked about the diagnosis, he sent me a link to this video, which he says is the same sound that his makes. To me it sounds more like a bird chirping than the rattling noise described by the timing chain problem.


One poster says that it is crank bearings. The only way to to tell for sure, is to open it up. I offered to have it towed to a mechanic at my expense, and get an estimate, but he seems unwilling.

I kind of feel like I should pass... but when you love cars, especially Jags, it is hard not to let your heart rule the decision haha. I don't have a project car at the moment, and I really want one. I just really want a car that I will actually be able to repair/restore as opposed to one that is just going to sit doing nothing because the work is too expensive.

Judging by the video, (I know that no one can say for certain in this situation, and the evidence of work is very vague and I understand that best guesses are merely that... total guesses) does anyone have a best-educated guess on what this engine might need?

I know this isn't very detailed, but this is pretty much all I have to go on. The car looks really well taken care of and very clean, if you never heard it start, you would call it a 8.5 or 9/10 all around.

but then... you hear the engine... and you think: "Uh-oh" haha

 

Hi Jeff, and greetings from down under ...

We are halfway into repairing a friend's 4.0L XK8 (and have worked on several early 4.0L S-Types to boot) with exactly the same menagerie of noisy symptoms, so here goes with what we have found; what we have done; and why ... I hope it helps some.

First, the plural, "symptoms" because like his, yours sounds like it has the same two noises - at idle, the "chirping" which we have diagnosed as a belt issue. Out with the magic spray can (your auto shops will doubtless market different brands to ours) ... and problem #1 was solved. Owner is aware that this is a temporary fix; all belt pulleys need to be checked as he has little reliable history of past work.

Second, on acceleration, this engine sounds exactly like his ... "rattles" that have nothing to do with the "chirping" and which, in the absence of any verification of replacement, we have diagnosed as the dreaded guides and tensioners issue. He is fully prepared to tackle the pull down and inspect in our workshop here, and confident enough in our diagnosis that he has ordered all new replacement parts accordingly.

There is plenty here on the 4.0L V8, especially in the S & STR section, on this precise problem. Do not be daunted; or, in the words of my friend, regard it as a bonus ... you have an incredible "uh/oh" bargaining tool for what appears to be a well known issue that is a very doable DIY fix. Push hard for a bargain, then fix it. Any of the V8 (non S/C) workshop manuals have excellent step-by-step guides.

Yes, there could be deeper issues ... every new "pre-owned" Jaguar is subject to unknown care and maintenance in its early years. Certainly, if I felt your car was evidencing piston slap, extreme gudgeon wear (or worse) I would suggest you walk away fast ... those never turn out as bargains. But here, IMHO, you could be, like my friend, on a winner!

Best wishes Jeff, and please keep us posted,
Ken

 

The chirping is almost certainly belt related and fairly easy and inexpensive to repair.

The rattle is of much greater concern. Best case a tensioner has failed and the cam chain has jumped one tooth. I would be very cautious to even start the car again until that had been explored and resolved. One tooth jump will produce noise and rough running above 1500 rpm without further damage. A two tooth jump WILL bend a valve.

The other thing that comes to mind is a spun crank bearing. For some unexplained reason the number one cylinder seems most prone to this failure. A used engine is the most cost effective repair. Think $3k for a decent engine and another $2K labor if you are unprepared to DIY. That would make even an otherwise nice '97 worth only in the $3k range.

That's about the outer range of issues, probability and cost but there could be more in between considering the remote diagnosis.

 

Also bear in mind that these early cars may have gearbox issues, so take this into account cost wise also. The G.B oil should be changed at around 60k miles to help prevent premature failure, over in the U.K both G.B and motor are similar prices, then there is fitting. What is the mileage of the car and does it have any history?
I am a lover of low mileage vehicles, mine has 63k on the clock which given its age is quite low, I feel if a car has done a lot of miles I.E over 100k every thing else on the car has obviously done that journey also and is usually indicative of wear and tear ( condition ). It seems that there are quite high prices for XK's in the U.K at this moment in time, higher than in the previous few years, I have looked for about 3-4 years and bought last August, and got what I thought was a low cost car, but it had/has a gearbox issue. I will find out soon if the G.B was repaired successfully with an oil or filter change.
Best of luck which ever way you go, just thought it was wise to inform you of other possible major cost implications.
Cheers,
ArtyH

 

Buying someones else's problems is always a tough call.

The present owner must have looked at his options for repair and concluded it would possibly/probably outstrip the value of the finished vehicle.

You clearly have the desire / ability / facilities to carry out major powertrain work. Although Jaguar parts are expensive, the real cost of repairs like this comes with having to pay for expertise. If you do the work, that is a major saving.

It therefore comes down to how 'relatively inexpensive' it is. I would look at XK8 values in SoCal and deduct the cost of a used replacement engine (worst case scenario). If the purchase cost is still in your favour, then do it.

Graham

 

+1 for Graham's advice.

 

You know, I come on this forum multiple times a day and ALWAYS learn something new, usefull, with the potential to save me thousands.

You guys are amazing. A virtual round on me

Nick

 

Do it.

AJ26 engines are pretty easy to come by an not real expensive- and with the help of the forum you should be able to overcome any knowledge deficiencies.

I roamed the hills of Yorba Linda as a lad, good times indeed.

 

I don't know if you saw the XKR for sale as well in OC, but THAT would be my pick if I were in the market for a project.

 

I should add: I would be happy to go with you to take a look at any Jaguars you may be interested in, and have a stethescope handy to find the exact location of the knock. Plus a little knowledge of the cars themselves.

 

One thing to consider is how big of a project are you looking for? Something to tinker with on weekends because this is not your primary car or something interesting to play with, but you will need it in the driving rotation?

These cars are pretty reliable when sorted out, but even low mileage well maintained examples are going to need work based on age alone in some cases.

Keep in mind relatively inexpensive is just that, relative. If you buy it below market and it needs only a little work, then that's inexpensive. But if it needs more...? The fact he is unwilling to have it inspected would make me walk away. Tells me he already knows the answer.

Cheap Jags never are. My , and worth exactly what you paid for it.

 

First of all, I would like to say that I never expected so much spot-on advice from so many people, so quickly, thank you all so much!

After reading all the replies and talking to the owner again, if the issue is merely the belt and tensioner issue, the potential value would exceed the cost. Since the car has 130k miles, I asked about the gearbox; the owner hasn't had any work on it, and said it was fine and never needed it.

If a new engine, piston work, and other non-engine issues add to the cost of what I need to put into the car, then the repair cost and purchase price would exceed the value a little. (I derived this number from parts+work I could do myself, and parts+labor of work I would have to pay someone to do, adding up all the "worst-case-scenario" problems).

Where I live right now, I don't have a garage that I can keep a disassembled automobile for long projects. We had to down-size to a condo, and hence the project bug has been biting ever since haha. I am fairly confident I could do the tensioner job in stages over a few weekends if necessary, but pulling an engine and transmission wouldn't be possible.

The main thing that makes me wary is the owner; as one user posted, it does seem he knows more than he is telling, and is not willing to be forthcoming.

I basically very politely told the owner that with the amount of work it apparently needs, I could not really afford his asking price at this time, so if he continues to be unable to sell the car, and is willing to accept my lower offer to please contact me. If he accepts, then pretty much anything short of a new engine and gearbox would be reasonable.

Meanwhile, I'm going to be keeping my eye out for other projects.

A very serious thank you once again to everyone! I am truly amazed at the expertise and helpfulness of everyone here.

 

Actual prices would be very helpful for us to give you solid advice. We have a good idea of how much the values are and what costs are entailed.

 

The car itself (1997 XK8) is selling for $2500.00, and I have received quotes for the tensioner job from anywhere between 1200-3100. The 3100 quote was from an import specialist who said they use the stage 3 metal tensioners, and brand new chains made by Mercedes. The tensioner s, chains, and guides are something I think I could tackle myself, so I would just need to buy the kit which seems to cost around 400-500. I have heard that if you are not experienced with Jaguars, resetting the cams is very difficult, though.

TL;DR
Car-2500
tensionor job DIY- 600 (including tools purchase/rental)
tensioner job not DIY - 1200 minimum

I also think he ran the motor or even drove the car after hearing the rattle, and the way he talks, I suspect he is hiding something. If I was 100% positive that it was just the tensioners, it would be a no-brainer and I would go for it. At the same time, if that's all it was, I imagine the current owner would have done it.

I checked out that other project you pointed me toward, I'm going to contact the owner at a more reasonable hour tomorrow.

 

Setting the cams with the right tools is a piece of cake.

 

For $2500 I would buy it if everthing else (body, interior, suspension) is in goood/great shape. Worst case replace the engine and trans with an LS1/4l60e and you are still ahead (assuming you do the work yourself).

That said as far as problems it could be a lot. As others have said the chirping sound likely comes from the belt slipping, however that often means another problem. What you are actually hearing is the belt slipping on a pulley, usually the problem is not the belt itself. If you replace the belt and it doesn't stop "chirping" then that likely means there is a problem wih the AC compressor, water pump, power steering pump or belt tensioner (I suppose theoretically it could be the alternator too but I've never seen an alternator cause that). Things like silicone spray only hide the real problem.

As far as the other sound it could be a lot of things it is difficult to tell on the video. My guess is tensioners/timing chain, exhaust manifold crack/leak, rod bearing, main bearing in that order.

 

You didn't post the miles of the car you are looking at. As the miles and years pile on these cars, there is more and more to fix on them. The drivetrain might me the easy part.

Brett

 

The guy who quoted $3100 is dreaming or has two ex-wives to pay. Since the car has been run and it's not yours, why not spend the time and do or get a compression test? That would tell you if the valves are damaged. I did the tensioner job in my driveway (no garage) with no problem. Another concern not mentioned is all the suspension wear that these cars undergo, including bushing rot, shock mounts, ball joint and wheel bearing wear, etc. that can make the car handle like crap and can be a bear to fix. So add in another $2k in your calculations.
Not a bad idea to take the offer of help in checking out the car with an owner who's been through it all..........I hear he works for beer.

 

*imported beer*

 

I just picked up a 98 XK8 non-runner (fule pump in the tank) with 198k on it... body is nice, interior decent, good top.. engine??? who knows... but i didnt pay anywhere near 2500 for mine... I figure if I get too far into it i can do the LS1 swap.. or scrap it and get my money back...