Green shower AGAIN!
 

I've sprung a leak at the headliner for a second time.

I installed the pressure reduction valve AND replaced the hoses with Gus' recommended colliflower supplied ones. Everything was fine for a season.

Then, today my test driver (GF) called and said "the green oil is back!". I think this is a first for a "reconditioned" system.

Oddly, we haven't touched the top controls for months; it just started leaking on its own! Is the headliner valve block under pressure all the time?

My initial guess is that that I cross threaded one of the adapters on the valve block and it took a year to for fluid to work through? Not very likely when you think about it, really. I'm sure the lines themselves aren't leaking, they are pretty tough. Maybe a leak in the plunger assembly somehow?

Oh well, a spring project...I'll keep everyone posted.

Attachment 165969

Damn....sorry to hear that spurlee.

Hope you get it resolved soon.......check out our new member top hydraulics here.......he may be able to offer assistance along with Gus / Dennis as you obviously know.

either way and whatever you do, hope to hear

Scott,

What a bummer. I am very sorry this happened. I truly feel your pain.

For this to happen "by itself" after several months of no use is really strange. If it had happened during the first use after several dormant months, you could understand. In fact, a while back when I discussed this issue with the service writer at the Jaguar dealer, he said he saw most occurances in the Spring the first time the owner used the top after being dormant all Winter.

Also, I do not believe the top is under pressure when inactive. I say that because I disconnected the hoses when I removed the pump from my car. I suspect that if it was under pressure I would have noticed it when I unscrewed them. Some fluid would have leaked out. None leaked out.

Jack

Scott,
Sorry to hear of this. I do want to know what is leaking to see what went wrong. I will send you a PM on this to get additional information.

Scott,

I add my condolences and feel your pain. We've owned my wife's 2006 XK8 for not quite a month, and she fears the green shower. She's only dropped the top one time. I have a feeling she'll be dropping it this afternoon though with temps expected to be in the high 70s in our neck of the woods....

It sounds to me that operating the top at least a couple of times a month all year long may be reasonable preventive maintenance just to get the juices flowing and make the moving parts move. Gus, your thoughts on this?

On this point, no, there's no pressure in there until the rocker switch is pressed. But it's worth noting that when that switch is pressed one of the highest, if not the highest, pressure intervals occurs right at the get-go ... as the latch operation begins.

Not to get you into trouble with the GF, but do you think there's any chance she hit the rocker by mistake? (You can blame me for suggesting it if she rebels at the idea.)

Good luck IAC.

May not be the hose---it might be the actuator ram assembly? I need to get my hoses installed before taking a shower.

The hyd system has no pressure (based on the charts) when it is not in use so I would say I would be suspicious of a roof operation. I am anxious to hear what is leaking. Is the leak from the latch, the hose connection or the hose. Weather the hose is the Jaguar or aftermarket neither had a hose failure only at the transition at the fitting compression connection. One of the shortfalls of the hoses is that they do not take kindly to sharp bends. I want to hold off on my judgment until I see the leak. You know it could be residue from the last time and over time it is now leaking out.

My roof hose is the Jaguar replacement and much after the install (a year?) I installed the pressure relief valve and I drop the top when we elect to do so. Most of the time it is up in the winter except when driving around looking at xmas lights or it is 70F or better and we feel like it. If the question is, is it better to exercise the roof I do not know, we just operate it when we feel like it. I refuse to be a prisoner in my own car.

I think my actuator is leaking...new hoses are in tact. Its the next 'weak link' in the system I suppose.

Matt,

We have a new sponsor on this forum that can rebuild the latch and lifts. I also have information on my page JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource they are called Top Hydraulics. Give them a call.

Thanks All!
 

Well, I was surprised to find all the comments this afternoon, thank everyone for their concern and interest. To answer some of the questions:

The hoses are new aftermarket ones - steel braided from Colliflower. You can find them on Gus' website.

My GF is good at not banging around in the car, I doubt she hit the top button. Certainly not long enough to cycle the pump. BUT, I did lower the rear windows two weeks ago to clean the rubber seals - could that have pressurized the latch? I didn't hear the pump start. Shouldn't have caused a leak though...

I seem to remember that installing the new 90 degree fittings into the latch block was a tight operation. I'm typically pretty careful but I could have cross threaded one or used an improper size; they send several in the kit. I would think that in that case the leak wold have started immediately, not after a season of frequent use...

I'll keep this up to date as I get to looking at things. It will be a week or so until I get back to my home garage to work on it.

For now there is still a slow drip, just enough to cause a drop on the bottom of the light button after several hours. So far it has filled way less than 1/2 of the left light chamber only. In this sense it is not like a true "shower" which dumped a lot more fluid last time. Where the heck is the pressure coming from I wonder. I would think it would dump all it had and stop but, no.

More to follow...

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water again. . . .


Doug

Scott,

I forgot about the rear windows going down before the latch operates, so my "maybe GF did it by mistake" idea is surely a non-starter. Sorry.

I have been driving mt XK8 for around a month as well. The top goes up and down every day at least twice -it's hot an sunny in Mex!- and so far so good. I always raise and lower with the engine off to lower the pressure, until I get around to buying the presure relief valve. I am very afraid of the green shower too!

She dropped the top yesterday before the drive home and thoroughly enjoyed the trip. I have told her to perform all top operations with the engine off. Given her fear of the green shower, she understands that she is less likely to encounter it that way....

In the past much discussion has taken place about the hydraulic system and its operation under a controlled voltage reduction. The controlled voltage reduction regulates the pump operation from the beginning to the end of its cycle. The uncontrolled is when you operate the roof with the engine off and dependent on the battery. In both cases the roof operates just fine; however, the roof operation with the resister and the engine off the pressure was reduced by only 150psi +/- a few from an operating psi of 1635+/- a few. This information is only to provide you with what is taking place with your system. Supporting information is from tests by 3 people, 3 cars with 3 results. JagRepair.com - Jaguar Repair Information Resource

Rebuilding the front latches
 

Gus,

thank you for the referral. Yes, we are going to sponsor this site for a while, because it's the right thing to do. Technically, we are not a sponsor yet, since the paperwork is still being handled on that. I will hold back a little until the sponsorship is official, and only make some more general remarks for now.

You all will read about the front latch cylinders failing more and more often. The reason is a chemical reaction disintegrating the seals inside the cylinders with time. Replacing these seals with O-rings or anything else off the shelf is not a viable solution; a proper rebuild requires an upgrade of the main seals to chemically stable cup seals, plus a special square-shoulder seal in a static position. Done - no more worries about that cylinder failing again...

Folks, please don't panic about your tops! Any modern convertible top will eventually develop leaking cylinders, and they can be upgraded to last much longer than the first time around. It's the nature of a fancy car that there are actually more parts on it that can fail. However, it's unfortunate that the cylinder suppliers for all these modern convertibles haven't done their very best in making longer lasting parts. Keep your eyes on the ball: this problem can be overcome, and it will cost you far less than new cylinders.

This forum is very lucky to have Gus who keeps the information together and is able to give so much advice. I am very confident that together we can change the stigma of your cars inevitably giving you green showers!

-Klaus

1635 psi is not that much!
 

After reading a little in this forum, I realize that the pressure reducer has to a large degree helped in preventing the front hoses from bursting. However, the cylinders and the fittings clearly can take higher pressure! Almost identical cylinders are used in some Mercedes models at pressures up to 3,200 psi, and the pressure does not pose a problem to the cylinders. Admittedly, the Mercedes cylinders have smaller fittings, which connect to smaller hoses. The smaller hoses in turn are more flexible with a minimum bend radius of 18 mm and a peak operating pressure of some 7,000 psi at 70 degrees F. I haven't seen a single one of these small hoses come off their fittings yet, but have seen it happening on larger hoses used on other brands, which are all using the same fitting size as Jaguar.

-Klaus

I thought we were done. Anyway ...

The above description of voltage reduction is inaccurate.

By all means, visit the link cited there. Also, please visit www.scorekeeper.com/jaguar/jaguar01.htm for information on voltage reduction using the prescribed amount of resistance in conjunction with engine-off operation, as intended. (For engine-on operation, a higher value of resistance would be called for.) Peak pressure reduction of 250 PSI is typical. Also, perhaps of equal importance, the duration of highest pressure periods is reduced, typically by about 50%.

Reported hose failure rate, some 300 users now, appears to be much lower than with a stock system though 300 is a pretty small sample size.

It's probably best to read all available info sources and user experiences for all current approaches to this issue. None is without its problems.

Hoping for a return to the pax jaguarum ...