Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads
#1
02-09-2019, 02:23 PM
Hawk Performance Ceramic Brake Pads
Can anyone that has these installed weigh in on what they are like? Do these offer improved, the same, or worse breaking performance than the stock Brembo pads?
I found them on amazon at about $100 for the fronts and $92 for the rears and I am very tempted.
I believe these are the part number for the Brembos.
HB193Z.670 Fronts
HB194Z.570 - Rear
What is the minimum thickness for our 350 mm front and 330 mm rear rotors?
I found them on amazon at about $100 for the fronts and $92 for the rears and I am very tempted.
I believe these are the part number for the Brembos.
HB193Z.670 Fronts
HB194Z.570 - Rear
What is the minimum thickness for our 350 mm front and 330 mm rear rotors?
#2
02-09-2019, 09:20 PM
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Purchasing any product on the basis of price alone almost always ends up with a good dose of buyers remorse.
When I was working in a classic auto /classic motorcycle restoration shop I encounter several customers with high performance cars which had those same (compound) Hank Performance Ceramic. Pads installed. The owners uniformly complained of poor brake performance when the pads were less than hot, hard on the rotors, i.e. accelerated rotor wear, and too much dust. I moved them over to ebc red stuff pads, which are appropriate for 90% of all performance cars which are manly street driven. There are better compounds for a dedicated track car of course. Moving these cars over to the redstuff pads solved all the braking complaints.
Its tempting to judge a pad soely by the friction coefficient, but I've found that is just a small part of the equation which determines if a driver will like the braking provided by one pad over another.
Z
When I was working in a classic auto /classic motorcycle restoration shop I encounter several customers with high performance cars which had those same (compound) Hank Performance Ceramic. Pads installed. The owners uniformly complained of poor brake performance when the pads were less than hot, hard on the rotors, i.e. accelerated rotor wear, and too much dust. I moved them over to ebc red stuff pads, which are appropriate for 90% of all performance cars which are manly street driven. There are better compounds for a dedicated track car of course. Moving these cars over to the redstuff pads solved all the braking complaints.
Its tempting to judge a pad soely by the friction coefficient, but I've found that is just a small part of the equation which determines if a driver will like the braking provided by one pad over another.
Z
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#3
02-09-2019, 11:14 PM
Purchasing any product on the basis of price alone almost always ends up with a good dose of buyers remorse.
When I was working in a classic auto /classic motorcycle restoration shop I encounter several customers with high performance cars which had those same (compound) Hank Performance Ceramic. Pads installed. The owners uniformly complained of poor brake performance when the pads were less than hot, hard on the rotors, i.e. accelerated rotor wear, and too much dust. I moved them over to ebc red stuff pads, which are appropriate for 90% of all performance cars which are manly street driven. There are better compounds for a dedicated track car of course. Moving these cars over to the redstuff pads solved all the braking complaints.
Its tempting to judge a pad soely by the friction coefficient, but I've found that is just a small part of the equation which determines if a driver will like the braking provided by one pad over another.
Z
When I was working in a classic auto /classic motorcycle restoration shop I encounter several customers with high performance cars which had those same (compound) Hank Performance Ceramic. Pads installed. The owners uniformly complained of poor brake performance when the pads were less than hot, hard on the rotors, i.e. accelerated rotor wear, and too much dust. I moved them over to ebc red stuff pads, which are appropriate for 90% of all performance cars which are manly street driven. There are better compounds for a dedicated track car of course. Moving these cars over to the redstuff pads solved all the braking complaints.
Its tempting to judge a pad soely by the friction coefficient, but I've found that is just a small part of the equation which determines if a driver will like the braking provided by one pad over another.
Z
I have actually been debating over whether I should get the Hawks or the Redstuff. They both seem to have similar praise in other car forums. Since you prefer the Redstuff, would you care to elaborate on why they are superior to the Hawks?
#4
02-10-2019, 12:31 AM
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I can't elaborate why I am thinking the ebc pads are superior because I'm not an engineer or scientist. I can only relate my subjective and anecdotal experiences. I like them vs. the Hawk product for the reasons already outlined previously where they differ.. Why the ebc's work better when cold or warm ? why they give plenty of bite without wearing out rotors quickly ? ,, these are my anecdotal observations , not the result of scientific testing.. It would be foolish of me spout off a lot of technical jargon when I don't have, or rely, on such knowledge to pick one brand over the other.
i haven't had the opportunity to make a direct comparison of the ebc vs. the Hawk's with the brembos on an XKR. But have no reason to think that they would act differently than what I had already observed on other cars.
z
i haven't had the opportunity to make a direct comparison of the ebc vs. the Hawk's with the brembos on an XKR. But have no reason to think that they would act differently than what I had already observed on other cars.
z
Last edited by zray; 02-10-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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#6
02-10-2019, 03:55 PM
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#7
02-10-2019, 04:35 PM
Can I accurately measure the rotor thickness with a ruler or do I need a caliper gauge?
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#8
02-10-2019, 09:28 PM
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#9
02-11-2019, 08:00 AM
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Those are beautiful calipers that Z posted.
Another idea: if you live near Lowe's or home depot they sell a really nice sliding caliper for about $30 -$40 that I use all the time for wood, car, many things. Very precise and it will measure thickness or gaps. Display can be metric, numeric inches, or fractions of inches. Your choice.
John
Another idea: if you live near Lowe's or home depot they sell a really nice sliding caliper for about $30 -$40 that I use all the time for wood, car, many things. Very precise and it will measure thickness or gaps. Display can be metric, numeric inches, or fractions of inches. Your choice.
John
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giandanielxk8 (02-12-2019)
#10
02-11-2019, 09:44 AM
Senior Member
Can anyone that has these installed weigh in on what they are like? Do these offer improved, the same, or worse breaking performance than the stock Brembo pads?
I found them on amazon at about $100 for the fronts and $92 for the rears and I am very tempted.
I believe these are the part number for the Brembos.
HB193Z.670 Fronts
HB194Z.570 - Rear
What is the minimum thickness for our 350 mm front and 330 mm rear rotors?
I found them on amazon at about $100 for the fronts and $92 for the rears and I am very tempted.
I believe these are the part number for the Brembos.
HB193Z.670 Fronts
HB194Z.570 - Rear
What is the minimum thickness for our 350 mm front and 330 mm rear rotors?
The part numbers you give are correct.
The loud squealing noise has gone and they do not make a lot of dust.
But the breaking is not as good as with the brembos they replaced.
I can't recommend them to you.
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#11
02-11-2019, 11:57 AM
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NON-Brembo ebc redstuff part numbers for early XKR with ATE brakes
if anyone is interested these are the ebc part numbers for the redstuff pads:
these are the pads that are fitted to my '02 XKR w/ the standard ATE calipers.
Z
Front: DP3689-2C ($105 on Amazon)
Rear: DP3119-8C ($95 on Amazon)
these are the pads that are fitted to my '02 XKR w/ the standard ATE calipers.
Z
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giandanielxk8 (02-12-2019)
#12
02-11-2019, 02:14 PM
Senior Member
Never used the Hawk pad, but had the EBC Red Stuff on my 5.0L MGB V8 conversion. They were good and gripped well. All ways told anyone who drove it to get a little heat in them before spirited driving. Low dust and no fade on the D&S Rotors. Originally tried the Green Stuff but too much dust. Have only Generic Ceramic pads on the XK8 now, but happy.
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giandanielxk8 (02-12-2019)
#13
02-11-2019, 11:52 PM
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My experience with the Redstuff vs Hawks where the opposite, I used the reds 1st, but they really needed to be hot before they would grip well. EBC recommended then the yellow ones, which I am sure would have been better, but I lost my faith so after just a couple of thousand miles I took them off. The Hawks where better so I had a couple of sets of these.
But for both, especially when it was wet (ie cold), the initial bite was less good then the original Brembo pads, but I just couldn't live with the black dust that required cleaning at least once a week.
It was about 10 years ago or so when I had the reds, and about 5 years ago used my last set of hawks so compounds may have changed over time.
After the hawks I switched to Pagid RS15. These where much better than the stock ones when cold, and on another level again when getting warm/hot. They squeal though and eat rotors for lunch, but that's ok for the performance you get (and the low dust compared to the stock again).
But for both, especially when it was wet (ie cold), the initial bite was less good then the original Brembo pads, but I just couldn't live with the black dust that required cleaning at least once a week.
It was about 10 years ago or so when I had the reds, and about 5 years ago used my last set of hawks so compounds may have changed over time.
After the hawks I switched to Pagid RS15. These where much better than the stock ones when cold, and on another level again when getting warm/hot. They squeal though and eat rotors for lunch, but that's ok for the performance you get (and the low dust compared to the stock again).
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giandanielxk8 (02-12-2019)
#14
02-12-2019, 04:09 AM
I can’t seem to make a decision yet. Ideally I would like a low dust pad that provides good braking in street driving.
I’m going to make a poll of this since it seems that for each person advocating the Redstuffs, there is someone saying they are no good and advocating for the Hawks and vice versa.
Finally, if you know a better pad that I can buy, please share it.
Vote: What pad do you recommend?
If a moderator could make this thread into a poll I would very much appreciate it.
I’m going to make a poll of this since it seems that for each person advocating the Redstuffs, there is someone saying they are no good and advocating for the Hawks and vice versa.
Finally, if you know a better pad that I can buy, please share it.
Vote: What pad do you recommend?
If a moderator could make this thread into a poll I would very much appreciate it.
#15
02-12-2019, 12:13 PM
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Too bad I don't have the Brembo's. If I did, I'd offer to buy the ebc redstuff pads from you if they came in second place in your driving comparison.
Z
#16
02-12-2019, 12:41 PM
Senior Member
I've read generally good stuff about Akebono pads (and their customer service seems to at least know what they're talking about), specifically that they've got decent bite and pretty low dust. I haven't used them though, so I can't speak from experience. Just passing on what I've read. Chances are when I do have to replace my pads, I'll probably go with those (and I'll drop some intel or a review either way).
Last edited by EnjoyEverySandwich; 02-12-2019 at 12:42 PM. Reason: addressing question more specifically
#17
02-12-2019, 01:20 PM
I've read generally good stuff about Akebono pads (and their customer service seems to at least know what they're talking about), specifically that they've got decent bite and pretty low dust. I haven't used them though, so I can't speak from experience. Just passing on what I've read. Chances are when I do have to replace my pads, I'll probably go with those (and I'll drop some intel or a review either way).
The problem with the Akebonos is that they don't offer pads for the front Brembos, only for the rears.
Z, I would be open to do that after I graduate and start making some decent money. As it is right now, I can't afford to buy twice.
I am however, leaning towards the Redstuff pads. Once my powerflex lower control arm bushes arrive, I'm going to measure the thickness on my rotors. Turns out one of my neighbors has a high precision caliper.
Last edited by giandanielxk8; 02-12-2019 at 01:23 PM.
#18
02-12-2019, 03:33 PM
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#19
02-12-2019, 06:24 PM
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Whatever you decide on, following the manufactures recommended break-in procedure is critical to getting the most out of your new pads. It does take some patience as the break-in period seems to go on forever.
also, the rotors will likely need to be resurfaced so they are perfectly flat. Even if the rotors are not too thin, and appear to be OK, 99% of them will benefit from a resurfacing. It's all part of making certain your new brake pads will do the best job possible.
I've found that just asking the rotor politely to fall off is an exercise in futility. Most rotors I've seen have corroded to the wheel studs. Even if they are due for replacement, pounding on them doesn't often move them. Although it is very cathartic to take a mini sledgehammer to them, it just doesn't help get them off in many cases. I use a spray can of "Freeze-Off", made by CRC. It won't give you the same warm glow like wielding a hammer does, on the other hand, the Freeze-Off is effective at breaking the bond between wheel studs and rotor.
a liberal amount of it sprayed at the base of the studs does have a magical effect on those stuck rotors.
Z
also, the rotors will likely need to be resurfaced so they are perfectly flat. Even if the rotors are not too thin, and appear to be OK, 99% of them will benefit from a resurfacing. It's all part of making certain your new brake pads will do the best job possible.
I've found that just asking the rotor politely to fall off is an exercise in futility. Most rotors I've seen have corroded to the wheel studs. Even if they are due for replacement, pounding on them doesn't often move them. Although it is very cathartic to take a mini sledgehammer to them, it just doesn't help get them off in many cases. I use a spray can of "Freeze-Off", made by CRC. It won't give you the same warm glow like wielding a hammer does, on the other hand, the Freeze-Off is effective at breaking the bond between wheel studs and rotor.
a liberal amount of it sprayed at the base of the studs does have a magical effect on those stuck rotors.
Z
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#20
02-12-2019, 07:42 PM
Whatever you decide on, following the manufactures recommended break-in procedure is critical to getting the most out of your new pads. It does take some patience as the break-in period seems to go on forever.
also, the rotors will likely need to be resurfaced so they are perfectly flat. Even if the rotors are not too thin, and appear to be OK, 99% of them will benefit from a resurfacing. It's all part of making certain your new brake pads will do the best job possible.
I've found that just asking the rotor politely to fall off is an exercise in futility. Most rotors I've seen have corroded to the wheel studs. Even if they are due for replacement, pounding on them doesn't often move them. Although it is very cathartic to take a mini sledgehammer to them, it just doesn't help get them off in many cases. I use a spray can of "Freeze-Off", made by CRC. It won't give you the same warm glow like wielding a hammer does, on the other hand, the Freeze-Off is effective at breaking the bond between wheel studs and rotor.
https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05002-Freeze-Off-Super-Penetrant/dp/B000TFTH00/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=CRC+Freeze+Off&qid=1550016998& s=gateway&sr=8-1
a liberal amount of it sprayed at the base of the studs does have a magical effect on those stuck rotors.
Z
also, the rotors will likely need to be resurfaced so they are perfectly flat. Even if the rotors are not too thin, and appear to be OK, 99% of them will benefit from a resurfacing. It's all part of making certain your new brake pads will do the best job possible.
I've found that just asking the rotor politely to fall off is an exercise in futility. Most rotors I've seen have corroded to the wheel studs. Even if they are due for replacement, pounding on them doesn't often move them. Although it is very cathartic to take a mini sledgehammer to them, it just doesn't help get them off in many cases. I use a spray can of "Freeze-Off", made by CRC. It won't give you the same warm glow like wielding a hammer does, on the other hand, the Freeze-Off is effective at breaking the bond between wheel studs and rotor.
https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05002-Freeze-Off-Super-Penetrant/dp/B000TFTH00/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=CRC+Freeze+Off&qid=1550016998& s=gateway&sr=8-1
a liberal amount of it sprayed at the base of the studs does have a magical effect on those stuck rotors.
Z
I actually saw this on youtube, I think it was ChrisFix. That stuff does seem to be witchcraft. I will definitely buy some.
