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The LSx refers to the modern GM aluminum block/head engines.
Plan on spending $12,000 for a crate engine if you do ALL the work yourself. Addition for a GM compatible auto/manual transmission.
This is a project only for an experienced wrencher with both the interest, skills and financial resources for entertainment purposes.
If you do not qualify, especially with the financial and entertainment criteria do not try this. Spend the money to upgrade your car through sell/purchase.
Read through my Ford 302 V8 into an old Volvo thread below and evaluate if you are prepared to complete this type of project. Worst case is to try and not complete the project.
I would certainly say that all XK8's with a list of problems as long as the one you reference should sell for $2550. But that hardly compares to a car with a LSx conversion represented as being in excellent condition.
I would certainly say that all XK8's with a list of problems as long as the one you reference should sell for $2550. But that hardly compares to a car with a LSx conversion represented as being in excellent condition.
Not All LS1's are created equal. I can buy an "excellent condition" 90K mile Iron Block Truck LS1 with auto Trans for $1500 vs. a AL block/T56 which are $4500-$7000 unless you find a deal.
I seriously doubt someone let an "excellent condition" AL block/T56 XK8 go on E-bay for $8K. If so, someone got a heck of a deal.
If it was a truck motor/auto trans and they started with a $2500 XK8, $8K is about right.
The bottom line is if someone blows a light they are all worth about $300. When I worked for Porsche that was my line whenever a blowhard customer wanted to make me feel like less of a human being, because my 930 wasn't as new as his car....
I don't agree with the LSX Jaguar kit car thing, but if it floats your boat go right ahead......Mike
Not All LS1's are created equal. I can buy an "excellent condition" 90K mile Iron Block Truck LS1 with auto Trans for $1500 vs. a AL block/T56 which are $4500-$7000 unless you find a deal.
Trucks never had LS1 engines. LS engines are aluminum sbc gen 3 & 4 engines. Trucks also have gen 3 & 4 engines but they are not LS1,LS2,LS3 etc.
Trucks never had LS1 engines. LS engines are aluminum sbc gen 3 & 4 engines. Trucks also have gen 3 & 4 engines but they are not LS1,LS2,LS3 etc.
Whatever.
A 4.8L, 5.3L and 6.0L are all "LS1 family" engines. All of the LS1 external parts physically bolt up. You can bolt a LS1 intake manifold on a Truck motor and swap it in an LS1 car with the LS1 wiring and an LS1 computer.
Yes you are correct in almost everything except that LS1 is a specific engine in the gen three family of engines not a family itself. I have an LS1 and makes gtret power in my 02 TransAm convertible .many people have started calling 3rd sbc's LS'1 Which yhey are not any more than they are all LQ9's it might seem like a minor point but can definitely cause confusion amongst les informed owners and potential owners.
Back to the original question, it can and has been done with seemingly good results and should make a fun car but allot of work to get it done right. Good luck with whatever option you choose.
This is Andrew from Jaguar Specialties and I appreciate the interest in the XK8-LSx conversion. I want to be very clear here- my comments below are in no way to be construed as an effort to convince any XK8 owner that this is the perfect option for them. That choice is a personal one and each owner will of course come to their own conclusion. Some owners prefer to stay stock- good for them- while other find this approach the only way for their situation. The point of my comments below is only to set some of the records straight through current informed information. Please take it only that way.
Here is my opinion and the feedback from our customers on the XK8-LS conversion:
Complexity of the swap on a scale of 1-10?? 6-7
It is not clear to me how many of the comments up to this point have come from users/owners who are familiar with this conversion (ie have done one) or have seen/ridden/driven one in person. I hope no one minds me adding some details, just to be sure we have good info. And of the 2 forum members who voted 8 and 9 as far as difficulty, it would be interesting to know how they came to that conclusion- have they done one, or had a chance to see one of the cars in person???
Clarifying costs and the approach- Crate engines, in almost any swap project, are not the best way to go for very simple reasons. That 400hp crate LS3 from GM includes no wiring or controller, no accessory brackets or accessories, no flexplate, and no transmission. Add all of those together and the end result is VERY EXPENSIVE, and in my opinion, only of value to a user who doesn't care about cost. That is not most of our customers. Most of our customers purchase a complete good used (complete) LSx engine/trans package (the Camaro 2001/2002 are the best years for the LS1) which would include everything the crate approach does not- brackets, accessories, wiring, computer, and a transmission all of which can be had for around $3500-$4000 and go with that, as-is. There still are a surprising amount of low miles units out there. If a user wants something fresher, we advise to send the package out: have the motor refreshed (new rings. bearings, gaskets, valve job, and a hotter cam), have the trans rebuilt, and replace all of the accessories, all of which could be done (if properly shopped around) for another $4000. In the end, we could have a fresh, streetable, complete, 400+ hp, 400+ ft-lb LS1 package for about the cost of that bare LS3 crate engine alone..... And we have several customers using the 4.8-5.3-6.0 truck LS engines, repackaged for this application, with very good results. Compared to a real LS1/LS2, the truck pieces are a great value, and the difference in weight with iron block (+85 lbs or so) has a negligible effect on the car. So those are an option as well...
Note- Our XK8 LS conversion has only been available for just 3-4 years and nearly all of the cars done so far are still in the hands of the owners who commissioned the conversions or did it themselves. There really isn't much data- not enough cars for sale. I'm not prepared to say how many of these kits have been sent out to the field, but for a business of our size, this particular conversion has been surprisingly popular. Our customers find the converted XK8's to be fun, fast, reliable, easy-to-service cars and love the fact that the LS package has great GM and aftermaket support and (nearly) unlimited performance potential.
What are the cars worth??? Like I said, there isn't a lot of data. One car did go through Ebay some 1 1/2 years or so ago- a 97 convertible, an early conversion using an (automatic) kit from us that was modified (by the end user on his own) to go with a 6 speed manual trans (an option we didn't offer at the time) . The original owner (who commissioned the swap) sank good money into the car and got a decent result at the time- he liked it. However, the car was not done entirely with our parts or info (we had none for a manual trans), and in my opinion, was not a customer quality conversion- we could never take what was learned/developed by this customer on that car and use it for other customers (clutch pedal and shifter placement were not right, in my opinion, for example, and other issues) In fact, our own internally developed, and now available for sale LS/6-speed manual trans kit uses none of the info from that install, but I digress. After a few years, from what I heard, he traded the car away for some other cars for his collection. At owner 3 or 4, it had also been outfitted with some semi-custom air bag suspension- and not well. By the 4th owner it hit Ebay, already suffering from poor care and in poor shape. That's where it sold for bargain dollars- I think it went for $5k or so.
And here is another- a customer of ours had a 97 XK8 convert with an LS1/automatic that he built himself and was a nice unit. He had it for several years and the car ran great, looked great, and was really nice. Circumstances changed and a family situation was on the horizon, so it had to go. That car went through Ebay as well, and although it didn't sell at auction, an Ebay user contacted him afterwards and bought the car for $12k. That's probably 2x what the car would be worth stock in the same condition.
And just in the early spring we sold off our prototype 98 XK8 convertible, already a running/driving, California approved conversion, done with a 2004 GTO LS1 engine and trans. This car had probably 10,000 miles on it since conversion. We needed the drivetrain for another project more than the car itself, so the car was sold complete, less engine/trans/wiring/computer. It was a decent car, not cosmetically perfect, but nice, and with all of the conversion hardware in place, down to the last hose clamp. It sold for something in the $6k range.
Again, I want to be very clear- I am not writing any of this to convince any XK8 owner one way or the other. My only objective is to provide real info for a user to make up his own mind, nothing more. And I am not looking to get into any back and forth discussions about the merits of going one way or the other. Those interested to know more can contact us directly
Readers- I wanted to add one more comment here that I think you'll find important. In the attached thread, "Test Point" makes some comments and a reference to his own Volvo-Ford V8 project as a guide to the sort of cost/effort/labor/time/experience is required for the XK8-LS conversion. With all due respect, that comparison and those comments could not be more incorrect in regards to the LS-XK8. Our conversion requires NO FABRICATION by the end user himself and essentially NO MODIFICATIONS to the car (no drilling, cutting, or welding on the car itself). For example, once the engine is correctly prepped, the drivetrain (eng with trans) drops right in and bolts to existing holes on the car using mounting components provided in the kit. The kit is of course a group of parts and also includes a detailed conversion manual with plenty of photos to walk the user through the different aspects of the conversion. Each system is covered for the customer- car and drivetrain prep, engine and trans mounting, shifter hookup (for full function including the J-gate feature), cooling system (retaining the giant Jag radiator and fans interfaced to the GM waterpump), exhaust system (using standard GM high flow 2 1/2" outlet cast iron manifolds), power steering hookup (GM pump to the Jag rack), driveline (done by a local shop to our specs in the manual), AC system (including how to fabricate the needed hoses with common AC hose fittings), basic electrical (where to make all of the key connections on the car to any LS wiring harness- about 8 connections total- and how to integrate our CAN interface module to the car- another 6 connections), and more. It is very very detailed.
The Volvo reference, while very impressive, took that owner so long because he basically created all the pieces and methodology for the conversion himself, as he went (ie, there are photos in the thread showing measurements, etc.,. being made) something an XK8 owner, using our kit, would not have to do. That is why you buy a kit- to have all of the engineering worked out for you up front and someone to call/Email when you have questions along the way (and you will).
Just a final note- most of our end user customers (not shops) report that the time it takes them to d the conversion, top to bottom, is roughly 2 months of weekend work. That should not surprise anyone- that's how it should be.
PS- One note- for the LS/6-speed manual trans XK8 conversion we do need to extend an existing hole in the transmission tunnel top for shifter clearance, but I think most readers probably expected that....
Originally Posted by test point
The LSx refers to the modern GM aluminum block/head engines.
Plan on spending $12,000 for a crate engine if you do ALL the work yourself. Addition for a GM compatible auto/manual transmission.
This is a project only for an experienced wrencher with both the interest, skills and financial resources for entertainment purposes.
If you do not qualify, especially with the financial and entertainment criteria do not try this. Spend the money to upgrade your car through sell/purchase.
Read through my Ford 302 V8 into an old Volvo thread below and evaluate if you are prepared to complete this type of project. Worst case is to try and not complete the project.
Hello all,
This topic is much contested and discussed and as one who has completed the conversion (first in Canada) I will state the facts and tell the truth.
First, there are two types of Jag owners, those with the financial resources to fix anything via a Jag shop or guys like me, with little funds and some ambition.
You can read my story by searching LS1 Conversion in this forum. It has three brief chapters.
Firstly, if you own a Jaguar you anticipate expenses that come with owning this foreign brand. But you also appreciate the uniqueness of owning this prestigious brand.
Here is what you need to do this conversion inexpensively:
A good kit.
Support.
Basic shop tools.
A little help from some friends.
Time.
A good kit:
I did purchase the kit from Jaguar Specialties because for the money why would you try to reinvent this wheel. It's all there.
Support: (most important component of any project):
Not even knowing what kind of support to expect, it was the most pleasant surprise to discover that no matter when I asked for help Jaguar Specialties (Andrew) always responded and had the answer.
Shop tools:
I was fortunate to have a buddy with a shop at his house with just the basic of tools. IE: no hoist, we did it all on jack stands.
A little help from some friends:
Two of my buddies signed on for this project
A backyard mechanic
A parts guy
I am an electrician and cable service tech
Time:
Don't be a hurry, this is a serious job, perhaps I should have said patience and time. Do it right the first time.
Costs: Buy a donor car, 2002 Camaro Z28 with 155,000 km $5700 CDN and sold roller for $2000 so I got the complete drive train, computer, relays and more from the car for $3700. All in my cost was just over $7K CDN.
With all due respect to a previous post, a $12K crate engine is a poor choice. If you have that kind of loot ask Tony Stewart for a used Sprint Car engine. Moment of humour.
Aftermath:
Once completed I realized that even though I am not a mechanic, with some research and patience I could have done this conversion with the help of a couple of twelve year olds. It didn't take strength, it took some thought and patience.
Summary:
As stated by Andrew from Jaguar Specialties, I agree that this conversion is not for everyone. I would have had to give up my Jag if my only option was to repair the transmission simply because of the high mileage on the car and the $8000 quote. Putting a rebuilt tranny behind a tired engine is not a good formula.
However, having done the conversion, now in our third season of driving and over 10,000 km, I can state the following:
No issues related to the conversion!!! NONE!!!
This car kicks *** (ask the Roush Mustang kid who gave up at 210 Kph)
Because it's a Jaguar it tours well, looks majestic, sounds badass and handles like a racecar.
Make your own choice, either way, it's a JAGUAR so it's worth it no matter which way you go, need I say any more!
I agree that JaguarSpecialties claimed product and product support will eliminate or at least minimize many/most of the many issues that I experienced following Converse Engineering's conversion kit process for the Ford/Volvo path that made many of the same claims.
I did my Ford/Volvo conversion for entertainment purposes only in retirement with only expectation of a reliable daily driver. I never considered the swap as an economic solution to the problem of a failed drive train. Resale value was never a thought. Advanced performance was never considered.
Note that Skooba Kowboy did not complete the conversion himself. He had lots of help and support.
Unless you meet the above objectives of entertainment and results then either an AJ27 swap or a sell/purchase should be considered. If entertainment is the overall objective then enjoy.
Personally, considering my estimate of the effort of the conversion, if I felt compelled to do this I would go for a 6L aluminum block LSx with a manual transmission and some level of turbo assist just to make it worthwhile.
I am glad to see that forum readers have an open mind.
Testpoint- I read through your Volvo-Ford conversion and am very sorry to see/hear how poor the kit supplier's support was. You should never have had to resort to that level of fabrication on your end, or at the very least, should have been advised ahead of time what was involved. Were there more components available from the supplier that you elected not to buy?
Looking through what you did, I can comfortably say that the XK8 conversion requires probably 1/10 the amount of labor that your Volvo did. There certainly is not any of the fabrication you went through.
Wiring- the thing that scares everyone to death. Don't forget, this is a CANBUS car- there is no calibration of the gauges required, so the wiring is very simple- it's basically 2 wires into the car. Our CAN interface unit takes in GM engine data on one side and spits out the Jag CAN messaging on the other side (on the 2 wire Jag CAN). The Jag ECM and TCM are gone from the car. That's it. On a wiring difficulty scale, compared to other injected Jag conversions I have done, it's about a 5.
The poll part of this thread is interesting and I will be watching to see what the other responses might be. I know what I put in and what our customer Skooba entered. Of the others who voted, I would love to know how they came to their conclusions- what part or parts of the conversion made them rate it an 8 or 9 in difficulty. It would be good feedback on how we could improve the kit. Maybe they could share some thoughts on their ratings??? (if anyone doesn;t feel comfortable writing publicly, they could send me a PM- that would be great too)
I hope that only those XK8 owners who have actually done one of these LS conversions put in a rating- I have a feeling that's why scottatl posted the question to begin with. Without first hand knowledge, how can one be able to offer an opinion?? Not seeing the kit, not reading the manual, not doing the work, how would someone understand what's involved????
Andrew, I've been following your kit for years. I'm an LS guy (last project was an '11 SS LS3 Camaro that put down 720rwhp and ran low 10's, before that was an LS1 GTO that I built an iron 408 LQ9 for in my own garage). I've always wanted an XJS mainly to put an LSx in it. For the sheer fun of it.
So, long story short, I found a candidate - a very nice high mileage AJ6 '94, figuring one without the V12 would not cause the purists to freak. Well, problem was that it was just too darn nice and I'm enjoying it for being a Jag. Then (trying to wrap the story up), I found a motorless '91 and bought it for $999. Then I found a crusher-bound donor car V12 '90 for $500.
Well, anyway, now I've got three XJS's in my drive. Plan is to LSx the '91, using parts as needed from the '90, all the while daily driving the '94. At my leisure, I'll pull, maybe refresh the V12 from the '90, save it for future possibilities.
In my searches for an LSx donor, I can get a high-mileage LS1/4L60E for about $3k, or an LS3/6L80E for about $8k - with all accesories, harnesses, and electronics.
Bottom line: Andrew, expect a call or email this week.
Padre (funny, I have never addressed anyone that way..... )
Sounds like we have a good project there.
As far as engine choices, there is one other option to consider and that is taking that early LS1/4L60E package (that comes with everything) and sending it our to be refreshed. Use a better cam and new gaskets/bearings/rings for the engine and have the trans rebuilt. And shoot to start with an 01/02 LS1 from Camaro/TransAm/Firebird- they have the best heads (241) and intake (LS6) to begin with. For what we need for the XJS swap, the earlier package is simpler to deal with an already comes with many of the correct bolt-on engine parts we will need (we will change very little compared to the LS3 package). Additionally, with that new cam, a proper 2 1/2" exhaust and a good intake system, we can be making the very same ~400hp that the LS3 makes. Throw a few $k into the older package and you'll be better off...
BTW- I know the 91 car you bought- it was local to me- I was contemplating using it for a project myself. Nice catch- that's a great car for what we need....
We can talk more whenever you like- give a call
Thanks,
Andrew
PS- I will throw in a set of new hood struts at no charge with the kit so your 2x4 there can return to the woodpile....
Last edited by JaguarSpecialties; 07-19-2016 at 04:38 PM.
07-15-2016, 07:09 PM
Plan is to LSx the '91, using parts as needed from the '90, all the while daily driving the '94. At my leisure, I'll pull, maybe refresh the V12 from the '90, save it for future possibilities.
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