Will XKR and XK8 be a future classic
#81
10-26-2014, 01:59 PM
Classic Cars?
I think we all are willing to take our chances with these cars as they age, hence why we still own them.
The thing is the OLDEST one (1997 MY) is about to turn 18. The XKE's (which I still think are the fairest comparison) the newest (and less desirable) model rolled off the dealer lot in 1975, a year before I was born. So we are talking cars that were made between 1961 and 1975. They are now 55 to 41 years old.
Extrapolating that out to the XK8. We would be in the year 2052. I will be in my late 60's (knock on wood). Will I still have my Arden XK8 in my garage? Maybe, maybe not. Will it work? Will it still be on its original drivetrain? Will It be worth restoring if it has deteriorated? Will I be able to find any parts for it? These are questions that only time can and will answer. The major components are already out of production. Just look at the struggle Jon had to source a new chrome wheel for his 06 when it was involved in an accident. Jaguar has moved on - thankfully at least for the naturally aspirated Xk8 there are a bunch of xj8's that can serve as drivetrain donors.
The key to investing in cars is to pick up cars when the interest is at a lull. When I was younger lad of 17-18 and had just started driving, you could buy 67-69 camaros in functional condition out of the newspaper classifieds for 4-5 thousand dollars. Now any rusted out stripped shell with a vin tag and a title is worth more than double that.
At 16 I bought a 1970 split bumper Camaro because I only had about 2 grand scraped up, and this particular one needed paint (it was covered in primer) and I managed to beg and barter the guy down to sell it to me. Had a 350 small block in it and a muncie 4 speed. I spent a month at my dad's garage sanding, filling, and basically teaching myself how to do body work. There was probably still too much body filler in the car than would have been deemed acceptable for a long term restoration, but after a $600 scuff and shoot paint special from a friend, it looked damn good. Then after two speeding tickets in as many weeks, my dad decided that I was going to kill myself in this thing, and put it out in front of the shop with a for sale sign. I think we asked for $5000 and got $4200 for it. That car is probably worth 25-30k now... More if it had subsequent work done.
Now lets take the XJS - Which I think has a distinct following honestly, I'm a fan and I WOULD pick up a clean one. I've tried to buy a couple, and sold one for a customer which I should have kept. He wanted to get 7500 out of it and I ended up getting him 10,500. It was a late model 96 with 58k miles.
I think that the earlier XJS's will not stand the test of time as much as the 94-96 cars will be sought out. This is both an extrapolation of current resale values - where the the late model cars are fetching a premium and are on a bit of an upswing. Want to hear something ironic BOTH XJS's I have sold have been exported outside the country. One to Canada, and one back to Germany. It seems there is much more international interest in the XJS than domestic interest - at least for buyers who are willing to pay top dollar. Is this because the european marques are more highly coveted in Europe? (Honestly I consider Canada the northwest territory of Europe in many ways) Is it because cars in general are more expensive in these countries? I really don't know - maybe my friends north of the border or across the pond could address these ideas.
Honestly if you are looking to buy a car as an investment or future classic. Seek out any 80's Turbo Buick, Monte Carlo SS, and or RARELY optioned Camaro Iroc Z. These are the early mustangs of my generation. I think the Monte Carlo has the most upward potential, because it's the cheapest to acquire at the moment.
People think I'm a Jag guy, but the reality is my automotive interest is all over the map. I've strayed away from Jags for my daily driver bc the Mercedes E class just appealed to me a lot more compared to the XF. I would buy an F-Type in a heartbeat, but for the money I think a used 911 turbo is a much better choice. Both in performance, AND retention of value.
Take care,
George
The thing is the OLDEST one (1997 MY) is about to turn 18. The XKE's (which I still think are the fairest comparison) the newest (and less desirable) model rolled off the dealer lot in 1975, a year before I was born. So we are talking cars that were made between 1961 and 1975. They are now 55 to 41 years old.
Extrapolating that out to the XK8. We would be in the year 2052. I will be in my late 60's (knock on wood). Will I still have my Arden XK8 in my garage? Maybe, maybe not. Will it work? Will it still be on its original drivetrain? Will It be worth restoring if it has deteriorated? Will I be able to find any parts for it? These are questions that only time can and will answer. The major components are already out of production. Just look at the struggle Jon had to source a new chrome wheel for his 06 when it was involved in an accident. Jaguar has moved on - thankfully at least for the naturally aspirated Xk8 there are a bunch of xj8's that can serve as drivetrain donors.
The key to investing in cars is to pick up cars when the interest is at a lull. When I was younger lad of 17-18 and had just started driving, you could buy 67-69 camaros in functional condition out of the newspaper classifieds for 4-5 thousand dollars. Now any rusted out stripped shell with a vin tag and a title is worth more than double that.
At 16 I bought a 1970 split bumper Camaro because I only had about 2 grand scraped up, and this particular one needed paint (it was covered in primer) and I managed to beg and barter the guy down to sell it to me. Had a 350 small block in it and a muncie 4 speed. I spent a month at my dad's garage sanding, filling, and basically teaching myself how to do body work. There was probably still too much body filler in the car than would have been deemed acceptable for a long term restoration, but after a $600 scuff and shoot paint special from a friend, it looked damn good. Then after two speeding tickets in as many weeks, my dad decided that I was going to kill myself in this thing, and put it out in front of the shop with a for sale sign. I think we asked for $5000 and got $4200 for it. That car is probably worth 25-30k now... More if it had subsequent work done.
Now lets take the XJS - Which I think has a distinct following honestly, I'm a fan and I WOULD pick up a clean one. I've tried to buy a couple, and sold one for a customer which I should have kept. He wanted to get 7500 out of it and I ended up getting him 10,500. It was a late model 96 with 58k miles.
I think that the earlier XJS's will not stand the test of time as much as the 94-96 cars will be sought out. This is both an extrapolation of current resale values - where the the late model cars are fetching a premium and are on a bit of an upswing. Want to hear something ironic BOTH XJS's I have sold have been exported outside the country. One to Canada, and one back to Germany. It seems there is much more international interest in the XJS than domestic interest - at least for buyers who are willing to pay top dollar. Is this because the european marques are more highly coveted in Europe? (Honestly I consider Canada the northwest territory of Europe in many ways) Is it because cars in general are more expensive in these countries? I really don't know - maybe my friends north of the border or across the pond could address these ideas.
Honestly if you are looking to buy a car as an investment or future classic. Seek out any 80's Turbo Buick, Monte Carlo SS, and or RARELY optioned Camaro Iroc Z. These are the early mustangs of my generation. I think the Monte Carlo has the most upward potential, because it's the cheapest to acquire at the moment.
People think I'm a Jag guy, but the reality is my automotive interest is all over the map. I've strayed away from Jags for my daily driver bc the Mercedes E class just appealed to me a lot more compared to the XF. I would buy an F-Type in a heartbeat, but for the money I think a used 911 turbo is a much better choice. Both in performance, AND retention of value.
Take care,
George
Yes, I agree. Any of us looking for a long-term vehicle ownership will eventually encounter the myriad issues with an aging car.
Interesting background information and insights about your different vehicle experiences. Based on what you mentioned, you clearly do have a wide-range of automotive interests. My experiences are much more limited to just a couple of daily driver type vehicles over the years with the XK8 being my first luxury car.
Thanks for sharing your suggestions on potential investment / classic car options. Something to contemplate for the future. It is good to have this informative and valuable forum.
#82
10-26-2014, 02:27 PM
Senior Member
I mean, the other day I saw an XJS coupe and I thought, is that a Matador???
Last edited by blindside; 10-26-2014 at 02:32 PM.
#83
10-26-2014, 02:30 PM
Veteran Member
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#84
01-19-2015, 11:51 AM
Fascinating comments all and baffling in some ways. To think that the new breed of 2007 up Jaguars will at some point be classics is a mystery. Only time will tell if the new direction in styling will live on, but I can't help remember what happens everytime they violate their heritage. You may think that the XJS was beautiful, but no one would say the 97 XK wasn't better. To say that the 2007 XK harkens back to the days of the XKE would put you on the company marketing team. Yep, Jag lovers are just waiting for another chromed up carbon fibered dash and pimpmobile interior. Yep sure reminds me of the heady days. Along with 40 other cars, I have owned and worked on, 5 Mercedes, 4 Audi's, 2 Porsches, 3 early Mustangs and a Delorean. None of them have ever garnered the interest my 2000 XKR does in any venue. It is just plain beautiful. That in the end will make it a classic. I wish I could afford an XKE, but I got the next best thing with modern running gear. I also predict the new styling direction of the company will put it in a commodity class like any Lexus or Mercedes.. In the end it will have lost all personality. Thanks for your comments.
#86
01-20-2015, 09:51 PM
Veteran Member
Honestly, I feel that the XK8 in all terms will always play second fiddle to the XKR if and when the x100 becomes collectible. I also think that despite rarity, the convertibles will fare better than the coupes.
My 2000 XKR convertible is basically the lowest value XKR. I feel the 2006 XKR convertible will be the highest value. I'm going on the historical general trend of the performance model is worth more, and convertibles more than coupes. I feel my car well never be worth much since it's already hit 91k. I just drive and enjoy it!
Look at E Types, just because the fixed head coupe is rare doesn't mean a comparable convertible from the same year won't bring more.
I think the biggest issues these cars face will be related to rust and timing chain tensioners.
I think with time the valuable cars will be all original late XKRs with no rust or rust repair, and completely original drive trains other than swapped timing components.
My 2000 XKR convertible is basically the lowest value XKR. I feel the 2006 XKR convertible will be the highest value. I'm going on the historical general trend of the performance model is worth more, and convertibles more than coupes. I feel my car well never be worth much since it's already hit 91k. I just drive and enjoy it!
Look at E Types, just because the fixed head coupe is rare doesn't mean a comparable convertible from the same year won't bring more.
I think the biggest issues these cars face will be related to rust and timing chain tensioners.
I think with time the valuable cars will be all original late XKRs with no rust or rust repair, and completely original drive trains other than swapped timing components.
#87
01-20-2015, 11:36 PM
Negatroid amigo. Convertibles were built at about a common ratio of 2 to 1. The reason was simple .. stickered at $5K higher than the coupes. While the Beemers and Mercedes were spewing out like cryptosporidia in '03, my '03 ragtop was one of only 2,280 XK8 ragtops for the whole planet .. period.
As to the other Jags, all us kids wanted a Vette or Jag in '62 .. Cupertino .. before is was renamed Silicon Valley. The XKE was and still IS an incredible design, in soft-top. Purist might still opt for the first generation, trading off a non-synchro 1st gear, for the problematic 2nd gen engine with synchro. They are both beautiful, but that was then.
Our rides are so rare .. only Rolls and Bentlys (under $200,000 class) that doesn't it kinda giv'ya a tickle when you see another older Jag on the road? You wave .. giv'em a thumbs up .. that kinda thing.
Well I was following a new one for maybe 20 minutes about four weeks ago driving back up from Miley. It was a Jag .. had the badge .. personalized plate even. It was the *** end of an F type .. turned off at Healdsburg .. ugly as sin .. JMHO amigos. XKR-S .. different story .. $40k more.
Timing chain issues were addressed early on, as with the Lincoln, and pretty much resolved before the 4.2L in the 2003 MY. Being built with aluminum results in much fewer problems with rust/corrosion. Tata is now building both Jags and Land Rovers in aluminum, and Ford's 2015 F-150 is being built in aluminum (Ford owned Jag then in 2003 MY).
BBC News - Jaguar Land Rover to create 1,300 UK jobs to build SUV
Classic or not, it's the sweetest ride on the mountain, and indeed a grand tourer .. I can drive down to the city and back (330 miles RT) and it doesn't whack me .. at 68 (not mph). She'll do 155 chip limited .. I hardly ever take her over half speed .. LOL
As to the other Jags, all us kids wanted a Vette or Jag in '62 .. Cupertino .. before is was renamed Silicon Valley. The XKE was and still IS an incredible design, in soft-top. Purist might still opt for the first generation, trading off a non-synchro 1st gear, for the problematic 2nd gen engine with synchro. They are both beautiful, but that was then.
Our rides are so rare .. only Rolls and Bentlys (under $200,000 class) that doesn't it kinda giv'ya a tickle when you see another older Jag on the road? You wave .. giv'em a thumbs up .. that kinda thing.
Well I was following a new one for maybe 20 minutes about four weeks ago driving back up from Miley. It was a Jag .. had the badge .. personalized plate even. It was the *** end of an F type .. turned off at Healdsburg .. ugly as sin .. JMHO amigos. XKR-S .. different story .. $40k more.
Timing chain issues were addressed early on, as with the Lincoln, and pretty much resolved before the 4.2L in the 2003 MY. Being built with aluminum results in much fewer problems with rust/corrosion. Tata is now building both Jags and Land Rovers in aluminum, and Ford's 2015 F-150 is being built in aluminum (Ford owned Jag then in 2003 MY).
BBC News - Jaguar Land Rover to create 1,300 UK jobs to build SUV
Classic or not, it's the sweetest ride on the mountain, and indeed a grand tourer .. I can drive down to the city and back (330 miles RT) and it doesn't whack me .. at 68 (not mph). She'll do 155 chip limited .. I hardly ever take her over half speed .. LOL
#88
01-24-2015, 04:42 PM
Veteran Member
My blue cat is my daily driver. If it doesn't turn into a classic (translated: get expensive to buy), I will survive. I just love driving the car.
That said, I had a '69 E-Type OTS in the early 1980's. It was about the same age in years then as my '01 XK8 'vert is now. It was also my daily driver. Had a Fiat Brava for back-up but sold it because I never drove it.
You could still buy an E-type for under $10k then. I sold mine about 1982 for ~$9500 and made a profit after driving it for several years. Try buying even a project E-type for under $10k now. So, you just never know...
That said, I had a '69 E-Type OTS in the early 1980's. It was about the same age in years then as my '01 XK8 'vert is now. It was also my daily driver. Had a Fiat Brava for back-up but sold it because I never drove it.
You could still buy an E-type for under $10k then. I sold mine about 1982 for ~$9500 and made a profit after driving it for several years. Try buying even a project E-type for under $10k now. So, you just never know...
#89
01-26-2015, 10:02 PM
Junior Member
I like my XJS and think XKs are nice too. But each has unique qualities that make them very different, yet equally desireable to those they appeal too. They will both be collectible in the future, but like the E. When I chose, it was no doubt the XJS. Why?
Lyons, Sayer and the boys planned it. It's a v12. It looks good top up or down. It's mechanically upgradable yet great as is. The computer runs only the engine is as smart as a tv remote, not big brother. It's the car Ed McMahon promised in the sweepstakes, but never delivered. The convertible came out my senior year of high school, about the same time E's went from $10k to $100k! Convertible production was late, so only about 15k 12's and 15k 6's convertibles made world-wide since 89.
Since I bought it, lots of comments... from all ages. The youngest was a 7yo girl that screamed "Jaguar!" as I pulled into a cars and coffee. That's how I know the car's the real thing. It's instantly recognizable. Whoever said it was ugly is just wrong.
As to rising value... Collectibilty does not require high value, but it makes it nicer for insurability and restoration expense offset. Neither the XK or XJS are old enough to have experienced restorations in large numbers, mainly because owners either took care of them, or ditched them entirely, for now. The love starts 20 years after the last one left the showroom. It's not a scientific theory, it just happens. Example: I stopped by to check on a morbid XJS wile in my shiny 91. The 70's preHE had 3 tires and a stack of blocks, the orangest, rustiest red I've seen and an interior full of parts. Its tag was last registered in 91! My car was new when that one was pastured at 13yo. And you could still buy new (or reasonably new) for another 5 years. No wonder no one restored the early cars. But you can't buy new or used anymore. They're all old and will get costier to restore, which will make a higher price seem reasonable.
Lyons, Sayer and the boys planned it. It's a v12. It looks good top up or down. It's mechanically upgradable yet great as is. The computer runs only the engine is as smart as a tv remote, not big brother. It's the car Ed McMahon promised in the sweepstakes, but never delivered. The convertible came out my senior year of high school, about the same time E's went from $10k to $100k! Convertible production was late, so only about 15k 12's and 15k 6's convertibles made world-wide since 89.
Since I bought it, lots of comments... from all ages. The youngest was a 7yo girl that screamed "Jaguar!" as I pulled into a cars and coffee. That's how I know the car's the real thing. It's instantly recognizable. Whoever said it was ugly is just wrong.
As to rising value... Collectibilty does not require high value, but it makes it nicer for insurability and restoration expense offset. Neither the XK or XJS are old enough to have experienced restorations in large numbers, mainly because owners either took care of them, or ditched them entirely, for now. The love starts 20 years after the last one left the showroom. It's not a scientific theory, it just happens. Example: I stopped by to check on a morbid XJS wile in my shiny 91. The 70's preHE had 3 tires and a stack of blocks, the orangest, rustiest red I've seen and an interior full of parts. Its tag was last registered in 91! My car was new when that one was pastured at 13yo. And you could still buy new (or reasonably new) for another 5 years. No wonder no one restored the early cars. But you can't buy new or used anymore. They're all old and will get costier to restore, which will make a higher price seem reasonable.
#90
03-31-2015, 09:52 AM
I recently bought a 1997 XK8 conv. with only 40k miles on it. Its like new inside and out. I bought it as a collectible to hang on to and not drive very much, but I don't see the values moving up to much. I was wondering what people are selling this type car for in your parts of the world?
#91
04-01-2015, 10:51 PM
Senior Member
Gen 1 XK8/R Collectability, et al
Just enjoy driving it and keep it maintained. These are the last cars built at Browns Lane for better or worse. They are part Ford and Part Jaguar and as such are not yet considered real collectables. In time they will be because of looks, performance and the price of earlier XK's has gotten beyond the reach of most. Once the basic tensioner issues are fixed (mainly secondaries) they are pretty reliable but not in a Toyota way. I personally would not have one as a daily driver though some do. I would purchase a $35 code reader off eBay and keep it in the glove compartment. It also help to have a set of hands. If you don't, things can get very expensive. There is alot of help available on here. Use it.
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donmyrick (04-02-2015)
#92
04-02-2015, 05:08 PM
Member
Agreed the last browns lane cars, but to be fair the only Ford parts are the remote and the sump plug (and also think a woodruff key). All the rest is Jaguar, designed from the ground up in less than 5 years. This was after Bob Dover scrapped the long running XJ40 project, which in body shape was not too dis-similar to the final XK8. But the engine was all new. It will be hard to say if they will future classics, there are fewer on the road in England now and still turn heads big time. I know sales in north America were much more than Europe, but as other posts have stated the plastics and electronics and not last as long as a basic car like the E-type. However post 2000 cars did not suffer cam chain tensioner problems. Mine has 4th generation fitted. My biggest problem is rust on the bloody thing! Its garaged and only driven on dry warm days, but still it still rusts! So they may be a classic like the Alfa sud as none will be left that have not rotted away! By the way mine has be extensively wayoyled but still rusts
#93
04-03-2015, 01:18 PM
Sump plug and woodruff key?
Fords: '52 8N, '57 F-250, '78 F-600, '99 F-350, and an '03 XK8
#94
04-03-2015, 02:15 PM
From the cobwebs of memory, the 4.2 is a child of the Lincoln 3.9 LS engine. Wiki "While the block, crankshaft, pistons, and connecting rods are all unique to this displacement, many other parts are shared with the AJ-V8 engines produced in the UK by Jaguar." I never hesitate to ask if a part has a crossover from a Lincoln or T-Bird part .. less dinero.
Fords: '52 8N, '57 F-250, '78 F-600, '99 F-350, and an '03 XK8
Fords: '52 8N, '57 F-250, '78 F-600, '99 F-350, and an '03 XK8
Lincoln LS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lincoln LS
00-02 Lincoln LS .jpg
Overview
Manufacturer Ford Motor Company
Production 1999–2006
Model years 2000–2006
Assembly Wixom Assembly Plant, Wixom, Michigan, United States
Body and chassis
Class mid-size luxury sedan
entry-level luxury car
Body style 4-door luxury sedan
Layout FR layout
Platform Ford DEW98 platform
Related Ford Thunderbird
Jaguar S-Type
Jaguar XF
Powertrain
Engine 3.0 L Jaguar AJ V6 (gasoline)
3.9 L Jaguar AJ V8 (gasoline)
Transmission 2000–2002 Getrag 221 5-speed manual
2000–2002 Ford 5R55N 5-speed automatic
2003–2006 Ford 5R55S 5-speed automatic w/ SelectShift
Dimensions
#95
04-03-2015, 02:35 PM
I recently bought a 1997 XK8 conv. with only 40k miles on it. Its like new inside and out. I bought it as a collectible to hang on to and not drive very much, but I don't see the values moving up to much. I was wondering what people are selling this type car for in your parts of the world?
#96
04-03-2015, 02:37 PM
Only thing I can see keeping the car from being a collector car is that it will really be the same community of folks buying them (I am on my second) and they know the "issues" that come with the cars and the hard to come by parts that may keep the prices down.
That aside I think the 1997 to 2006 will ALWAYS be head turners and see many WOW moments at car shows and cruise ins.
That aside I think the 1997 to 2006 will ALWAYS be head turners and see many WOW moments at car shows and cruise ins.
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CA Jag (04-20-2021)
#97
04-03-2015, 06:55 PM
My 2003 XK8 coupe gets me a lot of comments like "The most beautiful car I've ever seen" It is my only car and is driven almost every day. It is garage kept and shows no signs of rust. The headliner had to be replaced last year. Nothing else has been replaced except normal replacement items such as battery and tires. One of the alloy wheels developed a crack, probably from a pot hole impact.
I wish someone would do a real test of leather treatment. There are a lot of claims and advice like "mist with distilled water before applying conditioner"
I wish someone would do a real test of leather treatment. There are a lot of claims and advice like "mist with distilled water before applying conditioner"
#100
04-06-2015, 11:04 PM
Member
I think your question is one we have all asked ourselves from time to time. I was curious and decided to ask someone who knows the business inside and out - Wayne Carini. My question to him was something along the lines of "will the XK8/R be considered a classic. He agreed the car is beautiful but his answer was quite simple - "No time soon".