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-   F-Type ( X152 ) (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f-type-x152-72/)
-   -   Jaguar Should Reconsider the F Type (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/f-type-x152-72/jaguar-should-reconsider-f-type-260873/)

scm Jul 17, 2022 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by Rivguy (Post 2546070)
It's a point of pride, I can't imagine Jaguar without a sporting car.

Jaguar lived without one for a while before the XK8 was developed.

bobjagbob Jul 17, 2022 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by Rivguy (Post 2546070)
I will never be in the market for a new Corvette or F Type. but I think that the loss of a halo sports car for Jaguar is a huge mistake. I think that every buyer of a Jaguar sedan glanced at the E Type, XJS, XK8, XK, and F Type and said to them selves. "My car shares it's DNA with THAT! That made them even more satisfied with their purchase.
The buyer of an Impala wouldn't have cared if there was a Corvette or not. There must be someway to keep the F Type in production, Toyota found a way to build the Supra. It's a point of pride, I can't imagine Jaguar without a sporting car.

I agree, I would not be in my F-Pace SVR had I not grown up lusting after E-types. As a teenager I to to drive (once) a V-12 E-type convertible, what a car, great sound , very quick, super good looking. Someday.... Fast forward to my second coupe, E-types were long gone and the F-Type was out of my price range. I settled on a 2018 Audi S5, second generation. While nice looking it was no where near as perfect the original S5 coupe. How do you top the original, you can't. (same thing happened to the Audi TT, no where to go after the original).

I am also saddened that there seems to be no successor.

PatentlawTX Jul 17, 2022 07:59 PM


Originally Posted by bobjagbob (Post 2546052)
Don't kid yourself on this. MSRP (which dealers will undoubtedly try and jack up) for a very well optioned Z06 coupe (3LZ) is $120,245. More options than you get with a F-type (sadly).

THEY WILL SELL EVERY ONE OF THESE AVAILABLE for the next few years, no one is balking at the price for what you are getting.

Remember this is the highest NA flat-plane V8 in existence. Their competitors are $100,000's more expensive....

Get in line if you want to try and order one.

Incorrect. If you look at Corvette forum, approximately 50 percent of the people will not be buying now. Will they sell every one? Maybe......

But...the thought of the thread is that some may consider the Ftype now that Z06 is out of reach.
They are only moving 200 units per year of the Ftype. They could easily pick up lots more sales.
Not everyone cares about it being a flat crank unit. If it was supercharged instead......fine. Turbos.....fine.

kb58 Jul 17, 2022 08:23 PM

Human nature keeps surprising me, but a Ferrari guy will want to buy a Ferrari, and a Jaguar guy, a Jag. Likewise, I think that a Corvette guy will want a Corvette and won't be so easily swayed to jump off a brand that that he's so emotionally invested in. I guess we'll all find out.

OzXFR Jul 17, 2022 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by sov211 (Post 2546036)
The is wrong. The v6 and v8 supercharged engines were engineered and designed by JAGUAR, NOT Ford. These engines were not used in any Ford product. But the engines were indeed built under license in the Ford Bridgend engine plant, separate from the Ford engines. So the fact that Ford employees did the actual putting together of the engines does not make them “Ford” engines.
Automotive journalists get a LOT of things wrong….

Not only journalists but professional mechanics.
Here's a classic case in point from the Car Wizard:
Not a Jag, a Range Rover, but he is talking about the AJ133 SC engine and keeps rabbiting on about it being a Ford engine.
You would think a professional mechanic who professes to "love Range Rovers" would know better.
At least he admits his mistake in the Comments.

bobjagbob Jul 17, 2022 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by PatentlawTX (Post 2546164)
Incorrect. If you look at Corvette forum, approximately 50 percent of the people will not be buying now. Will they sell every one? Maybe......

But...the thought of the thread is that some may consider the Ftype now that Z06 is out of reach.
They are only moving 200 units per year of the Ftype. They could easily pick up lots more sales.
Not everyone cares about it being a flat crank unit. If it was supercharged instead......fine. Turbos.....fine.

Well Hello Counselor,

You mean this unscientific super enthusiast (just like us Jaaaaaaag people) poll where it does not show what you said, "approximately 50 percent of the people will not be buying now" ? So you just grabbed the "still on the fence" and added it in for effect? SMH.
Looks like at least 47% are going to suck it up and buy it already. And I do know what the definition of approximately means, please don't go there.

We do have a crap economy now for the most part and gas prices certainly have changed since people were considering to purchase. They will sell everyone. Why would you want a power adder that makes things more complicated, more parts are more parts to break, which is what supercharging/turbocharging entails.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...0d93e61066.jpg

However, like you, I mourn the loss of a halo Jaguar vehicle. Frankly I am worried they can pull off the EV thing in a couple three more years. Competition for EV's will be, double, triple then? I dunno. Genesis, a brand new marque is selling more vehicles than Jaguar now. If LR wasn't bringing in some revenue it would be all over for Jaguar. I would be sad. Also remember this quote from Thierry Bolloré “So first it’s price. Luxury starts not far from £100,000. And then modern luxury, for us, is something which is extremely reductive, which is getting positioned in a way that fits with Jaguar in terms of refinement, in terms of modernity, in terms of engineering, in terms of technologies." Today, £100,000 is approximately $119,000 that is the starting point, bet it is higher when whatever Jaguar launches and this is the low end. Time will tell.

kb58 Jul 17, 2022 09:22 PM

Playing devil's advocate, if Jaguar doesn't produce a successor to the F-type, you'd considering buying a Corvette, right? These "I know what they're thinking" threads work both ways.

PatentlawTX Jul 17, 2022 09:24 PM

The whole EV thing is overblown. Toyota understands this and has a very stepped approach. In Texas, for example, there is no way that all of these cars are going to go electric. No way. The grid can't handle it.

If Jaguar is that bad off, even capturing 5 percent of this Z06 market would be huge.

Also, for the above poll, when it comes down to actually putting money down.....I think that the still on the fence group will say no. It's into 6 figures.

Looking at the past, if there was a 3 year wait, then it is down to 1.5 years. This is very similar to the original ZR! in the 90s.. Model year 1990 produced lots....years after decreased year over year.

Simply extending out the production plan for the FType, for a car they already produce, and getting a new contract in place for engines is much more cost efficient. It could be very valuable for them.

scm Jul 18, 2022 03:28 AM


Originally Posted by bobjagbob (Post 2546183)
... They will sell everyone.

Wow, a classic example of a missing space changing the meaning completely. :D

bobjagbob Jan 4, 2024 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by PatentlawTX (Post 2546164)
Incorrect. If you look at Corvette forum, approximately 50 percent of the people will not be buying now. Will they sell every one? Maybe......

But...the thought of the thread is that some may consider the Ftype now that Z06 is out of reach.
They are only moving 200 units per year of the Ftype. They could easily pick up lots more sales.
Not everyone cares about it being a flat crank unit. If it was supercharged instead......fine. Turbos.....fine.

Just checking in to see how well this has aged...

Fjmviper Jan 6, 2024 05:30 PM

Not many Corvette owners cross shop an f type and many less if they are considering a Z06. Apart from having 4 wheels they are not even close in their target market.

Twice last summer I rounded the legendary Mosport at my limits in a Z06 and can tell you it’s a bargain at whatever they are asking. It’s as close to a race are I’ve ever experienced. The engine alone and its lofty naturally aspirated red line is worth the admission price.

Ron Fellows set the lap record being a GT3 RS I believe.

How did I get to the track? In my R with the top down enjoying the half hour drive along the country roads.

Not the same car but would make for an interesting garage mate



F-type-r-2022 Jan 6, 2024 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by Fjmviper (Post 2709985)
Not many Corvette owners cross shop an f type and many less if they are considering a Z06. Apart from having 4 wheels they are not even close in their target market.

Twice last summer I rounded the legendary Mosport at my limits in a Z06 and can tell you it’s a bargain at whatever they are asking. It’s as close to a race are I’ve ever experienced. The engine alone and its lofty naturally aspirated red line is worth the admission price.

Ron Fellows set the lap record being a GT3 RS I believe.

How did I get to the track? In my R with the top down enjoying the half hour drive along the country roads.

Not the same car but would make for an interesting garage mate


The reality is that most buyers don’t RACE on the track. You have to going extremely fast to appreciate a GT3 or a Z06. A large percentage of cars are investments and sit in nice garages. When you go to the restaurant; all well maintained Ftypes get the most respect of all the American, Japanese, German and Italian SPORTS cars less than $150,000.

DMeister Jan 7, 2024 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by F-type-r-2022 (Post 2710004)
The reality is that most buyers don’t RACE on the track. You have to going extremely fast to appreciate a GT3 or a Z06. A large percentage of cars are investments and sit in nice garages. When you go to the restaurant; all well maintained Ftypes get the most respect of all the American, Japanese, German and Italian SPORTS cars less than $150,000.

Cars are investments? Not typically. Perhaps for the elite who can afford the ones that have that possibility, but most cars are NOT investments. Let's be real here.

themacs001 Jan 7, 2024 11:28 AM

I just got back to Jaguar. I left when I traded my 2014 F type in for a 2014 McLaren 12C in 2016. Obviously a very different car. I loved it and kept it 3+ years. Then the McLaren 720S came out. I thought it was one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. I bought a 7 month old 2020 Spyder. Big step up. I drove if for 2+ years and loved it. Just Incredible. BUT, I was so careful where I parked it. Resturant valets etc. Maintenance was tough. Extended warrantee was 7K a year, Oil changes YIKES. But I loved the car. Then, I realized it just wasn't worth it. I sold it back to the dealer. AND BOUGHT ANOTHER F TYPE.!!
2021 V6 silver convertible. 16K miles. Looks brand new. Sounds great. Fun to drive. My wife likes to drive it. She wouldn't bought he McLaren's. I will drive it much more than the others. I don't worry about parking, road issues etc. It is beautiful and $62K with 3 years left on the warrantee. I should have stayed with my 2014 and saved a lot of $. I still get plenty of complements on the beauty of the car.
As you get older you live and learn. I'm happy to be a Jaguar owner again! I to hope they don't drop the line.

DMeister Jan 7, 2024 11:36 AM


Originally Posted by themacs001 (Post 2710165)
I just got back to Jaguar. I left when I traded my 2014 F type in for a 2014 McLaren 12C in 2016. Obviously a very different car. I loved it and kept it 3+ years. Then the McLaren 720S came out. I thought it was one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. I bought a 7 month old 2020 Spyder. Big step up. I drove if for 2+ years and loved it. Just Incredible. BUT, I was so careful where I parked it. Resturant valets etc. Maintenance was tough. Extended warrantee was 7K a year, Oil changes YIKES. But I loved the car. Then, I realized it just wasn't worth it. I sold it back to the dealer. AND BOUGHT ANOTHER F TYPE.!!
2021 V6 silver convertible. 16K miles. Looks brand new. Sounds great. Fun to drive. My wife likes to drive it. She wouldn't bought he McLaren's. I will drive it much more than the others. I don't worry about parking, road issues etc. It is beautiful and $62K with 3 years left on the warrantee. I should have stayed with my 2014 and saved a lot of $. I still get plenty of complements on the beauty of the car.
As you get older you live and learn. I'm happy to be a Jaguar owner again! I to hope they don't drop the line.

I think a lot of the time we need to go through the motions to realize things though. You scratched the itch and now ya know ;-)

Yeah, unless someone is completely flushed with cash to the point that money is literally no object having cars like a Mclaren, and the like, is definitely something that separates the men from the boys in terms of overall cost impacts. The fact that you came back to an F-type says a lot I think.

Those V6 versions, man they sound great in their own right. Nice choice. Is there a reason you didn't go to a v8?

synthesis Jan 7, 2024 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by DMeister (Post 2710168)
Yeah, unless someone is completely flushed with cash to the point that money is literally no object having cars like a Mclaren, and the like, is definitely something that separates the men from the boys in terms of overall cost impacts. The fact that you came back to an F-type says a lot I think.

Those V6 versions, man they sound great in their own right. Nice choice. Is there a reason you didn't go to a v8?

I know a lot of people with money who will not spend it on really expensive cars, and who can blame them? Yeah, Ferrari's and GT2's/ 3's and the like would be pretty incredible to own, but when you put it down on paper, is it really worth all the effort necessary to have a possession this intense? I don't think so. It's much like traveling....yes, its really wonderful to see the great churches of Europe [or whatever floats your boat], but is it worth the aggravation of traveling these days? I know women LOVE to travel, but I think most guys are good where they lie [npi].

I agree that F-types are pretty much the perfect ride to have for the guy/gal who loves sports cars but is not willing to do what needs to be done to protect a seriously expensive car. At USD 75-100+K new [and considerably cheaper used], our cars are incredible values without all the worry. After all, imagine coming out to the parking lot and finding your multi-hundred thousand dollar [fill in the blank] was just keyed end to end!

In the end, if you can't be happy with an F type [or something similar], your issues lie elsewhere.

DMeister Jan 7, 2024 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by synthesis (Post 2710175)
I know a lot of people with money who will not spend it on really expensive cars, and who can blame them? Yeah, Ferrari's and GT2's/ 3's and the like would be pretty incredible to own, but when you put it down on paper, is it really worth all the effort necessary to have a possession this intense? I don't think so. It's much like traveling....yes, its really wonderful to see the great churches of Europe [or whatever floats your boat], but is it worth the aggravation of traveling these days? I know women LOVE to travel, but I think most guys are good where they lie [npi].

I agree that F-types are pretty much the perfect ride to have for the guy/gal who loves sports cars but is not willing to do what needs to be done to protect a seriously expensive car. At USD 75-100+K new [and considerably cheaper used], our cars are incredible values without all the worry. After all, imagine coming out to the parking lot and finding your multi-hundred thousand dollar [fill in the blank] was just keyed end to end!

In the end, if you can't be happy with an F type [or something similar], your issues lie elsewhere.

Our lives sound similar in some ways. The wife wants to do a lot of travelling and I could take it or leave it ;-)

Yeah, if I won the lottery I'd be dangerous. There would be some pretty crazy cars in my garage, and I wouldn't be worrying about anyone keying them...Not with the way I would be using them...To each their own...No trips to walmart ;-) It would be tracks, spirited driving where I'm not needing to park my Ferrari anywhere for great lengths of time, etc ;-) I have A to B cars for that.

Back to reality, yeah, our interests in cars is a bit of a racket and expensive...No matter how you shake it...

All this said, I feel you are on the right path. With age bring wisdom for sure. I'd love to be so flushed that wisdom need not apply, but such is life. Unless you're in the top 1% some wisdom is probably recommended. ;-)

themacs001 Jan 7, 2024 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by DMeister (Post 2710168)
I think a lot of the time we need to go through the motions to realize things though. You scratched the itch and now ya know ;-)

Yeah, unless someone is completely flushed with cash to the point that money is literally no object having cars like a Mclaren, and the like, is definitely something that separates the men from the boys in terms of overall cost impacts. The fact that you came back to an F-type says a lot I think.

Those V6 versions, man they sound great in their own right. Nice choice. Is there a reason you didn't go to a v8?

:

I would have liked the V8 but there wasn't one available that made sense when we were looking. Meaning color-convertible-price-milage Etc. I thought a 2021 in a color we liked with 16K miles in excellent condition for 62K was a good deal. The next car I will look at (if it ever comes out) in the Tesla Spyder. :)

themacs001 Jan 7, 2024 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by DMeister (Post 2710180)
Our lives sound similar in some ways. The wife wants to do a lot of travelling and I could take it or leave it ;-)

Yeah, if I won the lottery I'd be dangerous. There would be some pretty crazy cars in my garage, and I wouldn't be worrying about anyone keying them...Not with the way I would be using them...To each their own...No trips to walmart ;-) It would be tracks, spirited driving where I'm not needing to park my Ferrari anywhere for great lengths of time, etc ;-) I have A to B cars for that.

Back to reality, yeah, our interests in cars is a bit of a racket and expensive...No matter how you shake it...

All this said, I feel you are on the right path. With age bring wisdom for sure. I'd love to be so flushed that wisdom need not apply, but such is life. Unless you're in the top 1% some wisdom is probably recommended. ;-)

:

You're totally right!! My 2014 McLaren 12C was keyed about 14"'s but on 2 panels. It took a month to get the paint from overseas and the insurance carrier could not believe the repair price, 20+K. Then they broke the windshield getting part of the right front out (5K). I got the car back 2 months later. Just a little ridiculous, don't you think? :(

DMeister Jan 7, 2024 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by themacs001 (Post 2710183)
:

You're totally right!! My 2014 McLaren 12C was keyed about 14"'s but on 2 panels. It took a month to get the paint from overseas and the insurance carrier could not believe the repair price, 20+K. Then they broke the windshield getting part of the right front out (5K). I got the car back 2 months later. Just a little ridiculous, don't you think? :(

As I said, that right there separates the men from the boys ;-)

Wow. Doesn't surprise me in the least though.


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