Return The Lease Or Keep The R?
 

I've got a 2015 F-Type R lease. The lease was up 6 months ago, but I extended it the allowable 6 months as I couldn't decide whether I should keep the R or return her.

She's a gorgeous car, and I don't see anything on the market I would replace her with for the money. If I was to return the lease, I would not purchase another "toy". I daily drive a Ford F150 Raptor, so can get all my fun out with that on a daily basis. 17,000 miles on the clock...most of them from the first year.

My plan was to keep the R, and drive her sporadically from now on. For all of the apparent reasons, I feel that the R "might" have some future value in her (first year of the coupe, last year of the RWD, Italian Racing Red (arguably the best color, IMO), original owner with all of the paperwork + dealer order information from their system (screenshots and what not I asked them to print for my records), everything is going V6 turbo or electric these days and in the future, F-Type might stop production in a few years, etc). As some auto publications have put it, the 2015 R is a likely candidate for a future collector car. (But who knows.)

Last year when Jag was blowing out remaining inventory, I was offered an SVR for the same price I'm paying on this R...but I truly prefer this 2015 R to any other version of the F-Type throughout the years, so I declined.

I've got the loan paperwork sitting in my email waiting for a DocuSign to purchase the lease...but I keep going back and forth. Only because I'm in the middle of starting a new business right now am I questioning my decision. My heart says I will regret returning her (I've had a lot of cars and have no regrets trading in any of them...except this one I feel I would regret). My brain says it's pointless to have a $60k toy sitting in the garage and only putting 1-2k miles a year on her from now on.

Just looking for some input from you folks to help add some food to my thought processes. I've given myself a deadline of Monday to decide, otherwise I need to order the lease-end inspection.

What do you all think?

I think you've answered your own question! Unless you're really pressed for funds, you will, as you've admitted, regret getting rid of the car. Keep it - you know you want to! :D

+1

I say logically you should return it. You can always buy another one in a few years and probably make out better financially (car wise) if you still desire one. Yes, I realize you have kown this particular car since new, but there will be one down the road that was also treated correctly by it's owner. And that's the one you buy, at a much lower price in a few years.

Brain: if you can have all the necessary fun in a F150 raptor -> no additional funds need to be spent on car -> healthier bank account. I do think that one of the main draws of this car is its thrilling ability, exhaust and obviously speed/acceleration and styling. If you feel you get this from your raptor - return it. On another note - apart from the weight/size - do they really provide the same level of fun?! I am curious!

However, the caveat is that yes it could financially make sense if it becomes a collector's car. IMHO the unfortunate but frequent public belief of Jaguar cars as not reliable will likely outweigh the ability of even of its finest cars to truly appreciate in value. But - I would question this sentence [QUOTE][My brain says it's pointless to have a $60k toy sitting in the garage and only putting 1-2k miles a year on her from now on./QUOTE] This is what you want! a $60k car could become a $100k+ car if it becomes a collector's car down the road. 1-2k miles a year will uphold its rarity and appeal much better than if you put on 30k miles a year. That would probably bring the car closer to toast within 5 years at that rate.

Heart: Keep it! You may miss the crackles and pops and agility. If you give it back - let me know which dealer. How many miles on it?

Well, E-Types came from an unreliable time, but have you seen how much they cost now? ;)

Well, very true. Financially I could get another R or even an SVR for the same $ (if I leased again). I have family at a Jag dealer and thus my situation is a little different then most. With that said, getting a "better deal" isn't a motivating factor for me. It's having a 2015 R Coupe in Italian Racing Red that I'm after. Plus being original owner, and just the great memories of picking it up in FL and driving it home with my wife (when these things just came out and were pretty much unknown to most people) is a memory tied to this car, along with other memories, that can't be replaced by another similar or cheaper car.

[QUOTE=bluejaag;2001382]Brain: if you can have all the necessary fun in a F150 raptor -> no additional funds need to be spent on car -> healthier bank account. I do think that one of the main draws of this car is its thrilling ability, exhaust and obviously speed/acceleration and styling. If you feel you get this from your raptor - return it. On another note - apart from the weight/size - do they really provide the same level of fun?! I am curious!

However, the caveat is that yes it could financially make sense if it becomes a collector's car. IMHO the unfortunate but frequent public belief of Jaguar cars as not reliable will likely outweigh the ability of even of its finest cars to truly appreciate in value. But - I would question this sentence Well, to be clear, the Raptor and the F-Type are NOT on the same page. Not even close. The Raptor is kind of slow actually. Sure it's "fast" for a pickup, but it's just a great truck. I'm very active (snowmobile, mountain bike, scuba, etc) so having a truck is pretty much a must. And the Raptor is a great luxury type vehicle with some performance and all the needed hauling capacity I need. Plus...it can fly. And jumping a truck has been on my to-do list so happy to have knocked that off. As far as daily driving goes, the Raptor works for all aspects. The R is purely a toy. (Though I did pretty much daily drive it the first summer I had it.)

The R, with the crackling and popping is a beautiful beast that will not easily be replaced by any other car (IMO). Was a big Audi fan back in the day, but still couldn't see myself jumping into an R8 over the R.

Kind of, sort of pressed for funds. Under construction on the new business now so money is a bit tied up in that. So it's not like getting rid of the R helps me or keeping it hurts me in any way.

Ultimately...I'm in love with this R, and trying to talk myself out of it. I'm very much an analytical person who makes concise analytical decisions. This one is a heart vs. brain decision and the heart never wins with me. So my brain is trying to argue the heart is wrong right now. Haha.

You have to let your heart win occasionally. Otherwise we'd all be driving round in Kias! :D

By the time any particular F-Type is worth more than it is today, I will have been pushing up the daisies for a very long time. (no idea regarding the P7)

Holy crap. I have a 15 R Vert and daily drive a raptor. LOL

I don't know what state you live in but one thing to consider is that when you buy out the lease you will have to pay the full sales tax on the buyout amount. Here in CA we only pay the tax on the lease payment. So when leasing you never pay the total sales tax on the car.

My suggestion is to keep the car, but " R "might" have some future value" is the wrong reason to do so. There is absolutely no guarantee that this would happen, or that it would happen within 30 years.

You can get one in decent shape for about $75K. Now take E-type price at its lowest point, then invest these money in the stock market to compare return on investment. Even if you purchased perfect E-type at the lowest valuation and it needed nothing in maintenance, you are still not beating index fund.

For the money you could buy a pre-owned certified 2016 AWD R with another 5 years of warranty coverage - a far better investment from a cost of ownership standpoint. Jags however are not an investment - ever. They just lose value until they are valueless. No one wants a RWD only car, thus why Jaguar made an AWD version.

LOL

I'm in a similar situation, drive my F type very little, mostly because here in the LBC our roads are crap, and our population is ghetto, so I fear it will be keyed or worse in many areas I drive. I have a supercharged Tundra for my DD, and an SC M3 as the family hauler. So the F type is a 2K mile per year toy that gets washed more than driven.

I justify it as the previous owner took the huge depreciation hit and future depreciation will be slower. It's a known reliable example of a gorgeous car, in perfect condition, with the options, upgrades, and colors I wanted. Would be very difficult to replace, and I'm sure I'd regret it once gone.

Since your situation seems similar, I'd vote that you find a way to keep it......

Yup! Life is short. Gotta enjoy it.

By my best guess I'd say probably 400 of them in the US.

About 4,000 F-Types sold in the US in 2015, across all models (R, V8S, V6S, V6)….so I'm just figuring maybe 10% were the highest trim. Then you need to break it down by color.

As far as rare goes...well, the F-Type in general is rare compared to every other mass market produced car. 4k units a year is a very small amount. Of course it's not a one-off production limited to say 50 or 100 units, but still. It's rarer then most. As time goes by and units inevitably end up totaled or in the junk yard from abuse, there will be even less..

IL used to be like that. Thank God it changed a couple years ago. In Cook County you were actually triple taxed before the law changed.

I wouldn't be keeping it as an investment / THE reason to keep it wouldn't be the future value. That would just be a positive possibility. It's impossible to say what will be worth something or worthless in the future. But with the present information this car probably won't be worthless. But even if it was that wouldn't bother me much. Ownership of the beautiful car is the primary reason for the purchase originally and now if I keep it.

Agreed. Very few cars will ever truly be investment grade. Better off putting that money in real estate, or the market, vs. into a car. But...I've never heard of a stock or a rental property that has the same snap and crackle of the R's V8!! ;)



And as for the RWD vs. AWD argument...I'm on the side of RWD is more fun, but AWD is better for practicality. This car is about fun, not necessarily practicality.

Not if folks like me are really having a mid-life crisis! :D

Sounds like you and I are very similar. I also picked up a IRR R coupe but mine is the '17 model with AWD. Fully agree that our color is the best for this particular vehicle. I also leased mine with a plan to buy it at the end of the 30 month 10K/year lease term. I own a X5 diesel for my daily driver but find myself driving my R more than you possibly due to better weather here in the southeast.

As for becoming a collectors item... I'd say that is a longshot as most who have driven each typically prefer the AWD as it's easily to put the power down and control on the track which was the reason Jag HAD to move away from the RWD (they were as un-ruly as a TVR on most tracks and on the road). Naturally, the propensity for disaster and a reduction in the numbers also comes along with that aspect so if yours "survives" in great condition some 30 years from now then it could still be worth the current $60K value.

One of my logics was that the v8 is becoming rare and will be even more so in the future so if you want to keep one of the strongest v8 models, hang onto it regardless of costs. I am a bit concerned that I'll be tempted to buy the mid-engine version once it comes out regardless of the size of it's cylinders but luckily I have over 2 years left on my lease. These cars are a HOOT and there is nothing else within $50K that can keep up with Porsche 911s through the mountain twisties. I don't run them that often but it IS rewarding to own this monster and have it at my disposal. It sounds like you may feel the same. My vote... KEEP IT regardless of future value simple ... because.

PS - I have an investment property (lot) at a Ski resort in West Virginia whose currently market value is equivalent to the buyout value of my R but the resort is planning some new development that will turn my lot into basically a slope-side lot which would double or possibly even triple the value by the time this lease is due so I may end up being able to simply write a check for the buyout which, at least in my mind, would be a no-brainer of just keeping the Jag with the proceeds. Sure, I could re-invest in something else but doubt anything else would provide as much satisfaction as this Jag.

Spot on. I kept my F-type, despite it being mitigated disaster so far. I have enough regrets in my life to not pile on "gave up my F-type" onto this list.

Bummer. Well...you only realize a gain/loss once you sell, so if you hold on long enough maybe it'll become a profitable investment! lol

Agree with most points, except on the RWD. Even though I do agree the AWD is a better driver, the RWD is more fun. And when it comes to future possible collectivity, I think people would want the rarer RWD, and also the more fun RWD over the AWD. However, as mentioned, who knows about any of that stuff. That's just a side argument to all of this. I like your point about keeping it, just because.

Haha. Oddly enough I really don't have any regrets to be honest. I mean maybe I could have more $ in the bank if I didn't want to do some of the stupid stuff I've done in the past, but I prefer all of the memories (like tracking motorcycles, or scuba diving in Mallorca) over the cash. I'm not an emotional person, so this car is truly the only car I've every really wanted to keep. Even some dream cars of mine the like B7 RS4 I had, which I still love and miss, I do not regret selling after 17 months. I had it, enjoyed it, and didn't lose too much $ over the 17 months on it, so I was happy to part with it at the time and still feel the same about it now. Even though I loved owning it.

Eliminate financial return-on-investment justifications from your mind.
Do consider that there is no sports car more viscerally fulfilling for 60K.
If that fits your budget, good for you; however, can the 60K be used to further your business venture(s)? If you would be investing in a business that you own, look at your ability to buy viscerally fulfilling cars in the future with the return on your investiment into your business.
Do factor in your retirement.

Best,

Sounds like you love it, personally I would keep it but I'm still in the honeymoon phase with mine. Buying the same car a second time isnt my cup of tea. No novelty factor and you wouldnt know how it had been treated. It'd be like divorcing your missus and then marrying her identical twin 2 years later.

I loved my first XF and had it nearly 5 years. I traded it for the newer one and the novelty wore off after a few months (or never really wore on) so I got rid of it after a year.

Another thing I can directly related to as I had a Mercedes CLK 55 ///AMG back when it was the "fastest production vehicle produced" (in 2001) it was a hand-built naturally aspirated v8 torque monster capable of 0-to-60 times of 4.0 or slightly below with the right tires. I bought mine from a guy going through a divorce for his payoff and only owned it for... 17 months... after which I sold it to a banker out of NYC for a couple of grand more than I had paid for it. I can't tell you how many Firebirds, Camaros & Mustangs were COMPLETELY surprised by that sleeper. NOBODY other than a very few of us really knew what these things were Enjoyed it and moved it along.

I had a 2005 SLK55 which was also all engine. I was always getting picked on by Mustangs, Camaros and GTO's...... The look on their face was priceless. I had a blast with that car and am now having even more fun with the Cat!

So many good opinions for your decisioning. Ndabunka made most sense to me. I am pleased to add that if, repeat if, I had the good sense -- and favorable financial situation at that time -- to keep my original 61 E type, I would be well ahead at this time. It was a THRILL to drive, not as much as the F, but comparable for it's time. And, as I've followed values, the E would be worth an easy quarter million today. (Both tops, black, #400 in production, aluminum dash, wires, stamped bonnet louvers inserts...etc) Plus, as others have said, you get to enjoy it twixt now and ultimate sale if that were to occur. Not the same with my papered, or RE investments, which are just numbers on statements. (Growing, thankfully, yet no visceral thrill) So, my take, keep it and enjoy it.
Let us know what you decide.

2915Coupe, the fact that you are asking a group of F Type owners kinda answers your own question. You obviously love the car and want to keep it. If you return it, will you lease or finance another car? Unless you own a business where you can write off the lease and other car expenses, leasing a vehicle is not a financially sound decision. If you can write of the lease and car expenses, lease another one! If you need to replace the car for transportation, why not buy it or finance it. Typically with a lease turn in, you can negotiate a buyout at or below wholesale value. You may be able to keep the car and lower your monthly payment. If you need the money later you can always sell the car.

Will the car be a collector item in the future? Maybe, but I don't expect to be around long enough to realize it. If I wanted to invest in a future collector item it wouldn't be an F Type. I'd buy a Viper, Ferrari, 911, E Type or a 50's or 60' Corvette. I thought about buying one of these, but love … love … love the F Type.

Here I am, past my self-imposed Monday deadline, still thinking about it!!

It's due on the 26th, so I'm already cutting it close to get the lease turn-in inspection done...so maybe if I wait too long, I'll just be forced to have to keep it.

I think all who have followed this saga understand that you were looking for support in the decision to keep it.

You're not wrong. Probably just looking for more people to confirm I'm not crazy by wanting to keep it, or someone to give some good conversation points towards turning it in to make me think about more.

Turn it in, after all it is only a car and not a spouse. On second thought, you could probably turn a spouse in too! :)

If you start figuring cost per mile on these cars you will go finacially insane. My 5+ year F Type has alittle more than 18k miles and our 20 month Maser 6800! Only saving grace is we are retired and it's a luxury for us.