These are 1960's cars so that does not surprise me as other cars like many American cars such as the Mustangs, etc. in the 1960's had similar half back seats and most cars in those era you would be lucky to even have lap belts. I also added 3 point retractable seat belts but was able to find a source to provide the classic style buckle with the Jaguar leaper on them

 

Yes the safety aspects of the 1960s cars are woeful compared to modern cars. Imagine in the last 60 years things have progressed to a point where modern cars have seat belts, head restraints, crash protection bars, crumple zones, air bags in every conceivable area, ISO points for children's seats, fire protection fuel cells, some have built in fire extinguishers as standard . All modern pre production cars go through safety checks, all European cars have to go through an NCAP rating test before construction involving crash testing.
And then we drive a 60 year old car with none of these things fitted as standard. If we were to be involved in a serious accident in our beloved S Types or Mk2s we would be dead. End of. No amount of modern add ons such as fancy seats Head restraints, three point seat belts are going to help us. So you don't drive like a ****, You keep to the speed limit, you obey the laws of the road, you drive with anticipation, you allow bigger gaps between you and other cars, you enjoy the fact you are driving a 60 year old Jaguar that can keep up with and some times but very rarely out pace a modern 1000cc turbo Hyundai. But no matter how many things you try and change it will never be as safe to drive as a modern up to date car. It will never be as fast or handle as well as a modern car. I drive my Jaguar because of what it is not what I can make it become. I get all the admiration and looks from the public as I drive by or park up but I am not trying to do doughnuts in the car park to impress with a great big sod off V8 under the bonnet, massive great big wheels, carbon fibre brakes with four pot calipers.
Some people have to understand that an original 1960s Jaguar is sometimes enough and just enjoy it for what it is.

 

Hey Primaz,

I believe from your restomod thread you need to do some fabrication to the seat mounts and channel to get the front seats to fit. Am I mistaken? Would be great if I didn't have to go that route and they just bolt in.

Appreciate your insight.

Gary

 

Here are some of the pics I found, it does not look like I had to do any modifications to the front seats at all, and the others show some of the rear seat modifications.

 

Each person does what they want with their car. For you you want to keep it stock and that is your choice.

For me I have been able to make the car what I want. It will do 0-60 in 4.0 seconds which is faster than most modern cars. It has 6 piston front brakes and 4 piston larger rear brakes, 245 wide tires on all 4 corners, improved coil over springs and suspension that greatly improve the handling where it can out handle many other modern cars. I have put in more comfortable seats with better seat belts. I know what I drive so yes I do leave more space between cars, and drive defensively but also the way I want to drive which is spirited and love what I have built. Jaguar owners are the most snobbish and always are so anti-stock compared to other brands and that is just sad.

 

Thanks again for your input Primaz. I attached some screenshots where you mentioned you needed to do some modifications to the mounting point/floors support/cross member to fit the XJ40 seats. Let me know if I am misinterpreting your posts. I understand you carried out this project close to 13 years ago so some details might be fuzzy 🙂

I would much prefer being able to directly bolt the XJ40 seats in!

 

I'm actually quite surprised to find people arguing against fitting safety devices like seat belts and head restraints or better brakes. Being able to stop before you hit something surely is a good thing isn't it? Even in an otherwise stock car, seat belts in particular will reduce the severity of injuries, this has been well known for more than half century.

When I was rear ended I was stationary and stopped at a red light. No amount of "driving the speed limit" or "obeying the law" would have helped there. I know my head hit the restraints hard, my hat ended up in the back seat and I can still feel it in a limited range of head motion to this day. I know for certain that my injuries would have been far more severe without the headrests.

Speed limits are are not really of that much use for avoiding collisions, they are a maximum for average traffic under ideal circumstances. They apply equally to a fully loaded semi truck with a 53 ft trailer or a Ferrari, yet those vehicles will have very different cornering speeds. I'm sure all of us have been in situations where a safe speed was far away from the posted limit, either higher or lower. Simply diving the posted speed limit is no indicator of a safe speed for the current road or vehicle condition.

These cars were mass produced industrial products, they are not to be venerated like a religious icon. Lyons was always an innovator and early adopter of technology, Jaguars under his chairmanship were never staid, conservative cars, they were about pushing the possible. I see no reason not to embrace that spirit and update the engineering to what Lyons would have done if he had the technology available.

My understanding was Volvo was introducing headrests from the late 50's, perhaps I was wrong about the date.

 

While I am customizing my Jaguar for my needs, many of the things I have upgraded could be done regardless if you are wanting more horsepower. Installing better seat belts seems to be like a no brainer. Installing better seats not only is a safety improvement it also makes it more enjoyable to just drive. The same goes for brakes. From experience even if you did not increase your power I would recommend well thought out upgrades like the Fosseway brakes as they do provide more mainstream brake upgrades like their vented 4 piston brakes that are designed to work with the stock Jag brake system. I may have increased the horsepower to need their 6 piston vented brakes but a more mild or stock Jag would be way safer with their 4 piston vented brakes. There are a lot of things you can do to make the car safer, more fun to drive that are not really visible and if you keep the stock parts you can pass that on if you sell the car for those whom treat the car like a trailer queen that you rarely drive. To me these 4 door Jags should be driven and enjoyed and I do not see why there is so much anti-modernization. I am not against purists but I am against them constantly putting their judgement on other people's cars.

 

I have Series 1/2 XJ seats in my Mk2. They are comfortable but they do not fill the space like the originals. The headrests are also useless for me as a taller driver (at max height they don’t go further than my neck). I have started replacing these with original recliners. I am reupholstering them with modern materials. I have done one and I really like the results. Still have to test on a longer journey.

 

I don't think it is just Jaguar owners who are purists. In the UK the culture is different than that of the USA in that an original unmolested car is seen to be better than a modified car. Yes people want different things and if they own the car they are entitled to modify it any way they want but being a purist is not a bad thing. As we have said before these cars are only original once and in the minds of a lot of people that is the way they should be kept. I have never judged another persons car in a derogatory manner but I have asked the question of how far do you go in modifying a car so it is no longer the Jaguar model you started with. If the interior is changed, the engine and gearbox swapped out for an LS, all the brakes up graded to none Jaguar parts then is it still a Jaguar or a Hybrid. Other Marque owners are the same. If you altered a 1950s Bentley or Rolls Royce by changing the engine to a straight six Triumph Vitesse engine it would be frowned upon. If you changed the body of a 1930s Bugatti for a more modern look with all the safety features it would be frowned upon. If someone in the UK found a molested Rolls Royce they would want to put it back to its original spec as soon as possible. The USA just have a different thought process for modifying cars and don't mind sticking a Chevy engine in a Ford, (even worse a Chevy V8 in a Jaguar E Type) chopping the roof down or just making an old car look like it was designed yesterday with all modern things. We flat hatters in the UK admire old unmolested car and we can't help that. We still live in quaint little villages with thatched cottages that are older then the USA has been around.

 

I agree with Jb and on the whole disagree with everyone else. Our cars are for enjoying, most whichever way we want. A tastefully and skillfully modified Mk2 is a wonderful machine, great to drive, and worth a lot of money. Not that anyone should be thinking of profit: restoring to original or to restomod, short term you're not going to profit financially.

On the safety front, I don't see our cars as particularly bad. For most people's general road use, braking is limited by the tyres. I've noticed a lot of modern cars are sitting on cheap tyres that don't get ranked for anything in the magazine tyre tests. They're not going to stop shorter than a well driven Mk2 on decent rubber. I'm happy to go to 16 or 17 inch wheels to go a step further and get the best Pirellis or Michelin at a reasonable price. I'd still modif the brakes, if only to simplify maintenance and better tolerate a few laps on a test track.

The next stage in accident avoidance is being able to change direction when a moron puts himself unexpectedly in your path, a matter of making the suspension and steering work to their best. For their age, the cars aren't bad. Still, I don't see a problem in trying to improve those areas, though it requires a level of engineering competence that most often isn't to be found amongst owners or restorers. I made some suggestions for the rear suspension a month or so ago, but no one showed interest.

After that, there's surviving the impact. Some accidents, you will not be able to avoid even with a modern sports car and all the driver skill and anticipation in the world. Like Jb, I've been hit from behind twice and think a well positioned head restraint is worthwhile. For those who want to keep original seats, I'm sure they could be modified to have some restraint as there's a lot of steel in them. I recall someone whose saloon was destroyed in a severe side impact attributing his survival to the steel in the seats. Personally, I'd rather rely on steelwork in the car body. Again, I don't think our cars are that bad at least for their vintage. My Mk2 is receiving reinforcement or seam welding in many of the joints that Pressed Steel designed for easy manufacture. I'm also adding intermediate sills.

 

I would agree in the UK there are more purists that are anti any mods but that is changing:

This one of the popular UK shops that specializes is high end restomods:
https://retropower.co.uk/project/churchill/
https://retropower.co.uk/project/utah/
https://retropower.co.uk/project/geneva/
https://retropower.co.uk/project/xjc430/

Restomods are increasing in the UK as one of the top Datsun restomod shops are in the UK
https://mzrroadsports.co.uk/

For me my Jaguar is a budget version of the Beacham Jaguars that sell for well over $250K or the Callum which is over $500K tailored to my taste. https://beachamjaguar.com/ and https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/j...-callum-review

 

Cass, while I don't live in the USA, you should become more acquainted with the JCNA concours before painting such a wide brush about modifications. I am a certified JCNA concours judge and the standard we judge to the moment the car rolled off the assembly line at Browns Lane. Any additions, subtractions, over restoration, under restoration or defects in condition or cleanliness from that standard are deductions. It's down to things like the brand of hose clamp matters.

The rule book is 248 pages and covers how to judge a car, what are the deductions etc. In addition there are separate authenticity guides for specific models to assist the judges. On your car for example, you have added a overflow tank and polished the radiator tank. Those are both deductions - one is actually 2 deductions: a non-authentic item with a non-authentic surface finish.

I think the difference is that the collector car hobby in the US is so much larger than it is in the UK and it covers a much broader tent. There are those who modify in the hot rod tradition and those who cherish originality with everything in-between. There is room for all.

 

Indeed, there is even Ian Callum's restro mod Mark 2. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...icture-special

 

I like to keep my old S Type, TR5 and old motorcycles looking as original as is practical because I like living in the past - it was much cheaper!

I've had lots of new bikes and cars over the years and I'd get another if I needed complicated electronics and comfier seats. I fitted new inertia reel belts in the front and rear of my S Type, with reels hiden from sight, for the passengers' benefit but there were times half way through fitting the rears that I wished I wasn't. I don't bend and get to places as easy as I used to..

We each do what we like with our own vehicles.

Ray

 

It's horses for courses. It simply depends on how you get pleasure from your car. I like originality. I am slowly bringing my car back to its original state. I am not trying to create a concours vehicle, that's not my thing. Someone had fixed the wood trims in the car with a mixture of different Philips head screws. That irritated me immensely so I purchased slot headed screws (at ridiculous cost) and installed them so they all face the same direction. I love to drive my car but I want it to feel like a car from the 60's so I enjoy the original power steering in mine and I enjoy mastering the moss box and flicking the overdrive switch. I don't want a five speed.
Since we all agree whatever we do with the cars they are money pits we all have to get as much pleasure out of them as possible. Each to his own!

 

Yes, even the famous Jaguar designer Callum has done a restomod MK2. He and many see what is needed to bring the classic to modern day, which is much more horsepower and all of the other things associated to keep it safe and to create a more pleasurable experience. The down side is the price tag which went up to over $600K

The Callum/CMC Jaguar Mark 2, a restomod designed by Ian Callum and built by Classic Motor Cars (CMC), was originally priced at approximately £350,000 (roughly $540,000–$580,000 at 2015 exchange rates).
Key details about the Callum Mark 2:

• Production: A limited, bespoke run was announced, rather than a mass-production model.
• Features: It features a 4.3L engine, a 5-speed manual transmission, and bespoke design modifications by Jaguar's former design chief.
• Value: Due to its rarity and custom nature, these vehicles are considered bespoke, high-end collector items, distinct from the general, unmodified Jaguar Mk II market.

I have nothing against people whom want to keep it stock but the reality the UK is seeing an increase in the trend of restomods, Below is what is really happening in the UK

"Yes, interest in restomods is rapidly increasing in the UK, driven by a desire for classic style combined with modern reliability, performance, and usability. This trend is fueled by enthusiasts seeking to avoid ULEZ charges, enjoy modern amenities like Apple CarPlay in classic cars, and the rising popularity of electric-conversion (EV) restomods.

• Key Drivers: Modernization of classic cars (e.g., Jaguar E-Type, Porsche 911) allows for better handling, braking, and daily usability.
• Environmental & Practical Shift: Restomods offer a way to keep classic cars on the road in low-emission zones, with many now opting for EV conversions.
• Key Trends: The trend is particularly strong in the 80s and 90s car market, often referred to as "modern classics".
• Economic Impact: The UK historic vehicle sector is thriving, contributing roughly £7.3 billion annually to the economy.

The trend is moving beyond just muscle cars to include iconic British sports cars, with high-end, custom builds becoming more common, such as the recently teased Lotus Esprit restomod "

source Google AI

 

Absolute rubbish coming from Google AI. There might be a couple of restomod builders in the UK but there are more classic car restorers. Most of these are in the garage at the back of some ones house in the middle of a field where fine work is done using quality craftsmen who also work out of a shed at the bottom of their garden.

We talk about the Ian McCallum mk2 but McCallum was also involved in the design of the 1999 to 2007 Jaguar S Type. Now if you want a very fast excellent handling Jaguar with safety and comfort designed in from the factory then go out and buy a 2002 to 2007 Jaguar S Type R with the supercharged 4.2 litre. It had the AJ V8 engine and Eaton M112 Supercharger mated to a 6 speed box and a four wheel drive alternative. From the factory this was a 5.3 second 0 to 60 with a top speed governed at 155 MPH. With a remap and removal of the governor you could easily get this below 5 seconds and up to £180 mph. The engine was designed by Porsche but used by Ford in the Jaguar S Type. You can pick one up for less than £10k in the UK. It will not turn heads like the original S Type but it will put a grin on your face when you floor your right foot. Full leather interior, fake wooden dash and alloy wheels the none purist would not have to do much to this as it has already been done by the factory.

 

Rob, I understand your argument. I assume the 'mistakes' were deliberate irony, mocking what can be found on the interner?

For the benefit of those who don't: ignore McCallum, Porsche, fake wood, Callum designing the S type apart from the facelift. Actually, I quite like the modern S type and I'm sure it would put a grin on almost anyone's face. It's a great pity such a poor job was made of advertising it and most of the Jaguar's of the last 25 years - they're actually very good cars according to those who've owned them.

 

Same old 'discussion' about what's real and what's not, as I get when I'm out on my Hinckley Triumphs as opposed to my Meriden-built ones.

I remember, many years ago, some old boy (who was much younger then than I am now), telling me the only proper Triumphs were built in Coventry! I told him it wasn't my fault the factory got flattened in 1940. It's interesting, though, that bike production resumed in a temporasry place within about a week until the new place got built at Meriden.

Ray