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-   MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/mki-mkii-s-type-240-340-daimler-61/)
-   -   Removing Lower Wishbone (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/mki-mkii-s-type-240-340-daimler-61/removing-lower-wishbone-220242/)

Northern Chris 07-08-2019 06:16 PM

Removing Lower Wishbone
 
I have been able to get all the nuts off and have tapped the shaft with a rubber mallet but to date the shaft shows no sign of moving. Will continue to soak in penetrating oil and keep trying. Any suggestions to speed up the shaft removal?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b12d017d84.jpg
Recent disassembly on the left hand side.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...18991c7bef.png

JeffR1 07-08-2019 10:59 PM

A rubber mallet won't work to break things up, it just bounces off what ever you're trying to free, you need a small steel hammer.
Take one of your castle nuts or a spare and thread in back on to protect the threads.
If you use the castle nut, screw it on so the castle is facing inward so the castellated part doesn't get damaged.
You want to take the small hammer and hit the end of the bolt, not the nut though, the nut is simply there to keep the threads from mushrooming.
Small taps is what you want, not heavy blows.
It should never be necessary to strike the bolt so mush to the point where it may distort or the threads become damaged.

Tap on both ends of the bolt.

You have to anchor the control arm as well and work the bolt back and forth with a wrench so the control arm stays put.
Continue tapping and working the bolt back and forth until it breaks free.
If the bolt is badly rusted on the inner collar of the bushings and won't move or you have sheared the rubber in the bushing, you may to use some heat to break the rust.
You will need to replace the bushings of course.

Jagboi64 07-09-2019 01:37 AM

When I did mine the inner steel sleeve of the rubber bushing was rusted to the shaft. I tried all the usual ways and in the end the only thing that worked was an oxy-acetylene torch to break the rust bond, and then a 10 lb sledge hammer to drive the shaft out. Obviously the shaft is destroyed in the process, but with the rusted surfaces it probably already was scrap. The torch burned out the rubber and made a mess, do it outside. I also had the suspension out of the car so I was able to position and brace it so I could hammer on it. It was a fairly brutal way to do it, but the only thing that worked.

Other way might be to simply cut off the shaft with a sawsall on the inside of the control arm and then replace the shaft.

Northern Chris 07-09-2019 07:05 AM

Thanks for the advise, I'll continue to beat on it, but as I likely have the same rust issue new shafts will likely be the solution.

Homersimpson 07-09-2019 05:19 PM

Its been a while since I did mine but can you put a spanner on the nut on the other end of the shaft and turn it with that to try and break it free?

TilleyJon 07-10-2019 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by Homersimpson (Post 2096524)
Its been a while since I did mine but can you put a spanner on the nut on the other end of the shaft and turn it with that to try and break it free?

Impact driver (air gun) on the nut, some heat and soaking in penetrating fluid, but if the shaft is completely solid in the bushing, you will end up destroying it to get it out.

If you have a press then you can give that a shot, it should work, but again, you may end up destroying the shaft. I have just had to remove a bolt from a rear trunion on a Triumph Herald, 3/8" UNF in a steel bush within nylon bushes, I had to cut the thread off, and the press got to just over 15 ton before the bolt shifted, the bush was only 2 1/2" long, so you can see what can happen, and the lower wishbone shaft is 3/4" diameter and inside a tube which is probably near 8".

The rust usually only gets in about 2" from each end, but that is enough to make the job difficult.

Nigel.W 07-10-2019 02:52 PM

When I change tried to remove the shafts on my S Type a few years ago nothing would shift them. I ended up cutting the wishbones off and scraping the crossmember, it was pretty beaten up anyway.

Northern Chris 08-12-2019 07:58 PM

I only have the one crossmember so I will need to be patient with mine. I have resorted to setting up an electrolysis water bath to soak the crossmember in. After two weeks the lower bushing is finally loosened up from the shaft and after another two weeks hopefully I will be move the support shaft....

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...da3200dd51.jpg

jerry_hoback 08-15-2019 05:12 PM

I just recently did this on mine. I put a nut on the end of the shaft and tried tapping gently at first and ended up hitting it hard enough to bend the end of the shaft. Good thing is that replacements are available. Hope your bath works for you.

Northern Chris 09-07-2019 09:19 PM

After 4 weeks in the bath to loosen up the bushings and bolts, the front end is now all disassembled. Now can move on to refinishing and installing new bushings and ball joints.
​​​​​​​
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ae3d5ad3e7.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...b83a19546e.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...9e60d13b6e.jpg

JeffR1 09-07-2019 10:01 PM

What's in your salt bath exactly, I would be interested to know, thanks ?

Northern Chris 09-07-2019 10:54 PM

Here is some more details on the de-rusting technique, I've used it for the many cases where I needed to save the parts rather than cut or use the torch. Works great on freeing up brake callipers and such.

Rust Removal by Electrolysis at Home
Equipment needed:

Battery charger, a typical 2/10 Amp charger works fine. Larger charges may develop enough oxygen and hydrogen that ventilation may need to be considered. I know of at least one set up like this that did cause a small flash fire. Key point the anode is connected to the positive (red) terminal and the object being cleaned is connected to the negative (black) terminal.

Piece of steel that will be turned to rust using this process. Tin cans, pipe, bolts or anything else you have laying around will work. The larger the surface area the better it will work.

Non-conductive container. Plastic works well, the container can be a 5 gallon bucket. eaves trough or even a swimming pool.

Conductive solution. Water with either washing soda or lye/Draino added to it. For every five gallons add half a quart of washing soda or lye/Draino. The mixture ratio is not to important but having a stronger solution will not make the process work better.

Remember the basis is that chemical compounds can be decomposed by electricity. By adding electrons to iron oxide (rust) the exposed rust dissolves and provides an easy method of removing rust. By rubbing off the exposed broken down rust the underneath layers can be broken down faster. At the sacrificial anode electrons are lost in the iron causing an accelerated reacting with oxygen in the water causing sever corrosion in the anode. The washing soda/lye/Draino only makes the solution conductive and does not participate in the chemical reaction.

Place the object that you want to de-rust in a plastic or other non-conductive container. Ideally the container should be big enough to immerse the entire object in the water, but a piece can be done in parts. For example a 4 cylinder block will usually fit in a plastic garbage can or a fender will fit in a small wading pool. Fill the tub with water until the object is immersed then add washing soda (not baking soda). You will need about a tablespoon of soda to a gallon of water. Caustic (Draino) or lye will also work and will have the added benefit of stripping paint or grease at the same time. A caustic or lye solution will also produce heat to help in the stripping process. Remember to always add caustic or lye to water and not the other way around and always wear rubber gloves and safety glasses. Now place your iron (stainless steel works too) sacrificial anode in the water. The anode can not touch the object to be derusted or you will just short out the charger. Be careful that the anode is not just barely touching the object to be derusted as it is possible for a single object to be rusted on one side and rust removed on the other side (I have accidentally done it). The iron electrode works best if it surrounds the object to be cleaned since the cleaning is "line of sight" to a certain extent. The iron electode will be eaten away with time. Old tin cans work as good anodes and will dissolve quickly, pieces of thin pipe work well too. The larger the surface area of your anode the more current will be drawn and the faster the process will work. If your surface is large enough the water will actually warm-up, when the water is warm the process works real good in a caustic/lye solution where you also need to degrease (such as an engine block). Beware that the metal can become so warm that it can melt a plastic container (even with only a small 10 amp charger) so make sure you check the set-up every couple of hours until you feel comfortable to leave it alone longer.

Key point the anode is connected to the positive (red) terminal and the object being cleaned is connected to the negative (black) terminal. Making sure you have good contact with both terminals, this can be difficult with heavily rusted objects.

Turn on the power. If your charger has a meter, be sure come current is flowing, try and keep the flow below maximum. The current draw can be controlled by moving the anode away from the object to be derusted or using a smaller anode. Fine bubbles will rise from both objects (remember oxygen and hydrogen hazard). Go away and come back in a few hours. Rub the object with steel wool or under running water with a plastic pot scrubber. The rust should shrub off leaving a clean metal finish underneath. A total clean surface will appear black, and all metal pits will show. Remember this process will not replace metal it just removes the rust. Depending on the amount of original rust, you may have to re-treat. The clean object will acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in a warm oven or with a hair dryer. You can also apply a light coat of oil to stop flash rusting.

There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a cavity in an object; using a sponge soaked in the electrolyte with a backing electrode to clean spots on large objects or things that shouldn't be submerged (like parts with lots of wood).

JeffR1 09-08-2019 02:04 AM

Thanks for that, I wasn't expecting that much detail. :)
I've always just used hydrochloric acid, but that's not practical for large jobs.

jerry_hoback 09-09-2019 08:55 PM

Thanks Chris, I have stolen your instructions and locked them up in my documents. (Rubs hands together and snickers fiendishly).

Northern Chris 09-09-2019 09:58 PM

Please enjoy them, I hope they help. Its a bit messy but takes a lot of the stress out of taking things apart.


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