Another Transmission Issue
 

Hello Everyone,
I did a whole bunch of research prior to listing, so I hope I did not miss the answer. Here is the scenario:
I have 03 4.2l with 85k. Bought used, at 30k had TC replaced after trans fault light went off. To my knowledge had software flash at same time.
Last week, the transmission started to shift rough, miss and search for gears when it was cold, in addition to the lurch went stopped ( I thought someone ran into the first time it happened). It got to the point that I had to manually shift. However, as soon as the temp gauge reached midpoint, the car shifted like a dream. I took it to AAmco for their free diagnostic just trying to get an opinion. They said codes, ( never told me what they were) signified valve body issue. 1100 dollars to repair and replace fluid.

Next to local guy I use, after reading this forum, I asked him to just drain and replace fluid,. He would not use pan kit, would only flush for $675.

So off to Jag dealer. Made appt, left car at 7am, scheduled transmission flush for $475. After much disappointment, they never did the flush, told me transmission was throwing codes, they tried to perform software update and was having problems with car computer. This all without my consent. Had no choice but to leave car, called this am flash did not fix problem. Now they want to explore TCM, ECM ,Wiring issue. I told them just flush the transmission. Question anyone ever of heard of trans that doesn't run well till completely warmed up. Other than fluid, could the other thoughts by Jag tech be the cause.

thanks in advance

Larry

All indicators are pointing towards the fluid... but... if the fluid was already low (due to a leak) or spent (burnt) - this could have essentially affected the valve body... sounds like everyone you went to is screwing around... you need to get your hands on those codes...

thanks, I hope your right. Either way Im leaving the dealer with the codes

I think fluid as well. See, the fluid doesn't necessarily work any better when hot but does expand. The rough issues with your transmission could very well be a slight leak from the sleeve causing the fluid level to drop. So, it performs poorly until the fluid expands enough. If that is the case, it needs replaced ASAP. As for codes, well they could be from the poor performance period before warm up. Anyway, since it still performs properly when warm, I wouldn't fret too much that permanent damage has occurred yet. But I repeat, you need to change out the fluid and address any leaks ASAP.

See, the whole "sealed" transmission thing is proving to be a fallacy. Most every sealed transmission from many manufacturers are now coming up with fluid service intervals. Case in point... The sealed Mercedes transmission (5 speed NAG1) in my 300 has a service interval of 60k right in the manual. The 06 R350 we picked up has the Mercedes 7 speed that says it is sealed for life in the manual but since has been updated to every 40k. The big problem they caused is these boxes are very difficult to service on your own. It's not like the old days where you drained it, then filled it up and checked it with a dip stick. Now measurement and temperature are critical. If you read up on here the general consensus on the ZFhp26 is that it should be serviced every 60 to 70 thousand. It is important that you get it serviced soon since you are at 80k.

Post up your location.. I'm sure that there are members that could help you find a shop or dealer that will actually just do the service. Also, post up what codes the dealer gave you. My hunch is still that it is just in need of a fluid and sleeve replacement.

Yep, fluid. I bet the first mechanic placed in incorrect fluid. Not knowing the 6 speed ZF trans. requires unique fluid can spell disaster for the trans. Hold both the AMMCO and Dealer on the hook for this misstep.

I may have been misleading in my original post. Those were prices I received. In the end I went with a Jag dealer because they were competitive, used OEM fluids and if anything went wrong, well u know.

Well if that sleeve is leaking, it wont be fixed. The dealer is flushing not replacing pan. I live in south jersey

Check the NE forum - the link is in my signature below and look up shops in NJ - the feedback shared are from fellow members - I personally know of a trans shop in Northern NJ (where I live) that rebuilt my trans and would be willing I'm sure to perform a fluid/filter/pan change and replace the sleeve.... but check out the regional section first. I'm sure there are good shops out there in southern NJ.

Wow, the dealer is not changing the pan/filter even though the car has over 80k?

K, let them finish.. then follow abonano's advise and look for other shops posted. If you need additional help, I'm sure people will pipe up. Heck, I still have friends and family in Jersey.. Grew up in South Jersey (Tabernacle in the pine lands).

Also, post up the codes that the dealer says they pulled from the car.

Well they did the flush. Code 1641 or 1643 still there. Something to do with computer connecting??? The think its the tcm or ecm. I'll see how it drives cold

I am concerned that the Jaguar dealer did not know the filter is built into the pan and can't be flushed. This is a danger sign!

Please consider getting the pan/filter changed and replacing the sleeve at the same time. The sleeve is only $15 but can't be changed unless the plastic pan is dropped. So it's a natural to change along with the pan.

Did you verify they did at least flash the TCM with the latest software?

Were you able to find out was the transmission low on fluid when you brought the car in?
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What is the voltage on your battery before you start the car?

Update. Picked up car, customer service was in meeting, they would not disturb for me to speak with. Any event, they did flash, and bg flush. She told me over phone code was 1641 or 43 regarding computer not interfacing.

Drove Jag cold today-- 95% better. Had two hiccups-- seem to search for gear/hesitate shifting. But no lurch and could drive on cold start-up in auto. Guess I need to re teach the trans for another few hundred miles. Keep fingers crossed...Thanks for all the help

Get your own $10-$20 OBD tool and read the codes. At that price it'll only read the PCM ones (& those reported by the TCM via the PCM) but it'll reveal P1643 if that's what you really have.

Find a better shop, regardless.

The TCM will take a few drive cycles to settle. Behave normally till it does. We'll be here :)

Kudos on the re-flash...but.......

What was the condition of the fluid? was the fluid low? Any leaks detected? These are 3 questions that come to mind. Additionally, I would look to invest in getting the pan/filter & sleeve changed ASAP by an reliable indy that will get the job done right...

Looks like I spoke too soon. This am back to the same issues. Code from dealer was 1643

Grab JTIS for the codes PDF and do some reading :)

Again what is the voltage on the battery before you started the car in the morning?

Did they do a re-flash or a re-flush or both?

both

Can you check the voltage prior to starting the car? My guess is that it is the range 12.2...

worked overnight, drove it 15 minutes to get home, sat for 4 hrs --reading 12.33

How old is the battery and can you get a load test on it?

I am asking a bunch of questions because I am experiencing the same issues and I am documenting a bunch of stuff to see what I come up with. I have been in contact with ZF engineers with hopes of a solution. It appears BMW, Audi, Range Rover along with Jaguar are experiencing the same thing with the same results. I am about to remove my TCM and have it tested so understand I am not trying to give anyone a hard time just want to gather information.

Really, poor transmission performance when cold??? Same year and model? Ill try to get load tested this weekend

Question, What is the "Sleeve" that should replaced with the pan/filter?

The wiring passes through it. Covered on here lots of times :)

Yes, Please search for a thread by a guy named CCC. Great pictures and very good explanation of the fluid change. Shows all the items needed for a change and where to get them for a good price.

I used that thread to purchase all the parts/fluid and then had my local Jaguar dealer do the change and re-flash the TCM.
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Battery load test was normal

I thought I was on to something with the battery voltage but after a full charge on my car I still had the problem today. I am on a mission to find out why this is taking place. I will continue to post as I go along but for right now I have no solution. I hope it does not take me as long as it did on the hyd hose.

Take a look at this http://www.jagrepair.com/images/TSB/...S307-17am2.pdf

Gus - which ZF do you have? The 5HP24? Or which car is it in, if not those in your sig?

I have the 5HP24.

This is my post relating to my Transmission issue. Any information you can offer would be greatly appreciated ZF Transmission shifting issue - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum

Thanks. I don't recall that specific set of things being an issue with the 6HP26.

We have this one, my car, Matt and one other that I am unable to find. Along with that one post on a BMW and another two on Range Rover all using the ZF transmission.

Those all have the same specific issue? You described it in such a way I figured it would be unique!

Also, are the 5HP24 and 6HP26 so similar?

Don't think I've ever seen proper pics of either of their TCMs let alone know what CPU they use.

I do not know all the answers to your questions but I have been working on this for a good period of time. Yes both 5HP & 6HP have similar problems. I have been in contact with ZF and was planning to call them again once I gather a little more info I do not like to go forward without all the info I need. As for the TCM & ECM I do not have all the info but that is what this fact finding mission is about. I do know that ZF was leaning towards a command/signal issue at this point I myself am not sure that is the case.

Wow - sounds "fun". Do you have a Mongoose JLR (or AE) and can maybe read some of the signals etc?

No i do not but part of my process to find out why.