Help! Windows won't operate at all
 

07 S-type, A couple of days ago, the windows decided to stop working. Today I checked the fuses - all OK. I then tried the Global Closing feature & the windows started to go down (I stopped it at that point) and now they won't go back up. Not with the switches, not with Global Opening. It's getting ready to rain & I feel we are screwed.

I tried disconnecting the battery & discharging the wiring (grounding the now-disconnected positive lead). Hooked it back up & still no window operation, plus now the electric parking brake won't release. I recently replaced the battery, 'cause the old one went bad & I couldn't even get the brake to release then. I don't remember if I had to do something after I installed the new battery. Now I can't even get the car into a garage stall!

Any ideas? This really looks like the nail in the coffin as far as my Jag experience goes, unless I can get this fixed soon.

Looks like a flat battery so either bad when bought or not charging up.

It's hard to blame a car in those situations but up to you.

Buying an old car you presumably made sure you could DIY simple stuff or got a warranty - in the latter case just claim.

Check the battery voltage and or a load test battery , maybe even give it a charge .
Could have faulty charging sistum , dudd battery
or a parasitic power drain .
Check all these things with a multi meter exept the load test
you will need a load tester

With no load, the battery measures 12.7 Volts with the engine off and the battery connected. I didn't have the brake problem until I had disconnected the battery, in an effort to reset any putative "stuck memory" issues with the window operation.

Again, it is rather odd that the Global Open operates the windows & sunroof, but the Global Close only closes the sunroof, not the windows. Same results using the key as well as using the remote. The windows won't operate at all using any of the switches.

The car is not especially old, and now has a whopping 50k miles on it - not very much mileage at all.

The message I get is "Cannot apply park brake". The brake, of course, is applied, so it should read "Cannot release park brake". I have tried the remedy in the manuals of applying the foot brake & pulling up on the park brake lever. I also tried the 5-pump, etc remedy that I found in another thread.

The car was working great a week ago. I now have it on charge, but I doubt that charging an already good testing battery will have any effect.

Even if I eventually free the miserable EPB, I will still have the issue with the windows, which is what started this whole mess.

I will entertain any & all thoughts as to the cause of this problem, as right now I can't even get the car to a repair shop.

You can easily power the EPB motor direct if you unplug from the module. That won't address whatever is apparently wrong - maybe bad power/ground.

Thanks for the information on the EPB. I just now hooked the battery up (I had disconnected it & put it on charge). Previously, when I developed the EPB problem, I had just disconnected for a few seconds. This time it was disconnected for about 30 minutes. When I started the car up, it now had the message to reset the parking brake. I did and now the EPB works normally once again! (I guess the power had to be off for longer; the battery still reads 12.7 volts, just as it did before.)

I still have no response from any of the window operator switches. Not from the driver's panel, nor from any of the individual door switches. I still get windows & sun roof to open with Global Open, but only the sun roof closes with Global Close. Maybe the door module has gone bad, but I still can't explain why the Global Open continues to work.

I have checked the full power distribution for anything that is controlled by the door module, and everything else that would be affected by a common fuse further up the line still operates (outside mirrors, door locks, etc.).

Has anyone got any further ideas? I wish I had never tried the Global Open, as the car was able to be driven around with the windows closed. Now I can't trust the weather & definitely can't trust the random strangers in a parking lot. I may have to throw countless hundred-dollar bills in the direction of the Jaguar dealership if I can't find a workaround soon. (There are no decent independents around here that do Jags AFAIK.)

I apologize for the long-winded posts on this topic...

I'd start with fuses & relays, power & grounds. Consult the workshop manual (free download).

It looks like there are no relays in the window circuit, except those that supply power to a number of other circuits, all of which still work. I've checked all of the fuses (even the ones that are common to other, working, devices), and the grounds, except for any grounding that may be hiding inside the door panel. Since the passenger window also is kaput, and it has its own ground, I kinda rule that out.

It also looks like the power has to be present at all points for the global open to work. The window switches on the doors work by grounding the appropriate input to the individual window operators. That basically leaves what looks like a possible "enable" input (common to all of the window operators) that is controlled by the door module, via the SCP comm bus.

I wish I knew what conditions need to be met to turn on the enable output, but I suppose that is proprietary. Rats.

I've done electronic & electrical troubleshooting on control systems (and other things) for about 40 years. Usually, though, I have had full access to all documentation relevant to the machine in question. This fumbling in partial darkness is frustrating for me.

You're not likely for any car to get more than the entire workshop manual as used by the dealers.

In this case, a free download - now that IS unusual.

I gather you've never had a (control or other) system using any variant of Windows...

Yeah, I'm really grateful to the forum members who so generously donated those great resources.

None of the systems I used to work on were burdened by a Win OS. Initial ones used various proprietary software, but the latest systems from a German engineering firm were Linux based. We went from ladder logic to Boolean expressions.

Even at work, I chafed when required to just swap out hardware modules; I wanted to do actual repairs, but at a downtime cost of tens of thousands of dollars per hour, I could see their point.

This should help.

Link http://www.jagrepair.com/images/Auto...cal-2006on.pdf

Thanks for the link. I already had a copy that has helped me eliminate several possibilities.

Since that link has been introduced in this thread, though, I had noticed something this morning in Fig 01.1 that has me baffled.

There is a "transit isolation relay" that is shown as providing a connection between the battery negative terminal and ground. I can't figure out what the purpose of this relay is, as there is also a permanent ground directly from the battery to an adjacent point on the frame. Any ideas?

It's the oft-posted unused item in the boot (trunk) that people find. As again oft-posted, ignore it apart from making sure it can't short against anything.

It was for - wait for it - shipping.

I found the various threads on that relay. Thanks for pointing me to it. I'm guessing that the grounding strap is not installed until it reaches the dealer showroom. I also guess that the input to the disposable relay is an XOR logic input. Since I will be taking the car into the dealership (sad face), I may try to talk them into giving me one of those relays to play with.

(The drawing posted in the earlier threads shows the relay attached to the positive terminal - must be a different model, as the electrical diagrams for the S-type show it attached to the negative.)

Open your driver's door and fondle the wiring loom while trying to run the windows up from the switchpak. You likely have a broken wire right at the door jamb bulkhead. I'll dig out my post on it and edit back a link. I had intermittent operation for a few days, then global-only, then naught. Even after the wire breaks, it is a tight space in that loom, and occasionally, you get lucky and the broken ends brush up against one another...

I reread the following post when obtaining the link. I need to ammend my statement above. "You DO have a broken wire," rather than "you likely have.."

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...allenge-98225/

If you are not ready to effect this repair....you may be able to "fake it" by running a jumper wire to the connector/pin assy referenced and providing it with +B voltage to get all the windows up. But I'm not sure about that...proceed at your own risk.

Does your sliding roof work? On fig 14.1 you will see a driver door latch assembly and driver door control module that is where I would be looking first. Check the grounds then your control leads. Not sure how the center console switch pack and rear electrical module fall into this but would work your way to them.

Zane:
Thanks for the reply and the link to the painfully detailed story of your own adventure. I now have hope that I can, after all, fix this myself. I will start today (if the rain lets me - we are getting storms from that storm out on the coast, with some of that Texas mess coming this weekend). I will look at the wiring diagrams once again to see how just one door wire could affect the rest of the car's windows. My symptoms are almost identical to what you experienced.

Gus:
The roof works fine by itself, and is the only opening that closes on the Global Close. (The windows & roof all open on Global Open, but only the roof closes on the Global Close command.)

All:
I have always hated trying to remove inner door panels on any vehicle, but if it will effect a repair, well, I'm in!

Joe, the S-Type door panels are (surprisingly) not all that bad. You may need 2 or three replacement Christmas tree fasteners so if you are waiting on weather, may as well search out the p/n and get a few on order. Several online sources or the dealer. They are kind of special, doubt you can walk into O'Reilly's and buy them off the rack.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would bet your windows don't work at all, either global open or close. Yes, they went down and appear to work with global open, but you can't get them back up, so you don't know if they still work with global open or not. It's been 3 years and become a bit foggy, but I don't believe there is anything in the wiring that would account for the windows working for global open but not for global close. Biggest problem with global close is that most USA cars are not configured to accomplish it from the FOB, only global open, for some reason. Then the keyhole gets all chaste from lack of use to the point the key cannot even achieve full penetration, let alone any twisting action!

Thanks for the encouraging words on the door panel issue.

I didn't allow the windows to go down fully during the global open using the door lock; I stopped it then tried to close them (using door lock & fob) with no luck. A subsequent trial of GO now using the fob caused them to go down some more before I let off; again, no GC operation. With each attempt the roof opened & closed normally. Reading your old post, it seems as though you had the same problem (eventually: it looks like you experienced a cascade of slow failures).

This car is low mileage & was garage kept - that might explain why the key in the door works very smoothly. Well, maybe today will be dry & the cat won't keep trying to crawl in through the open windows (nice scratching posts in there - grrr...).

It just occurred to me: With Global Open/Close, should the operation continue even if you let off on the fob button; my open action ceased as soon as I let off of the button/door lock? I'd never used the GO/GC function before.

Thanks for the clarification. Then it may well be that in my case, the global open continued to work....but I zipped all four windows all the way down and that's where they stayed...til I fixed the wire. Regarding your question, I'm not sure...I believe the operation stops when you release the key, though....in other words, yours is normal. Can't check it out for you as I'm out of town away from any of my S-Types for another week.

Mine only continues if I hold the key against the spring.

From my fob 2 seconds of lock and release the button and all closes compleatly !
2 seconds of unlock and release the button and all opens compleatly , I can stop the close or open via another press of the button .
But as for the center consol door lock button , when I unpress the button at any point the windows and roof will stop right at the point of were you let off the button .
Have never tried the door lock barrel.

Joe, just wanted to follow-up and see how you are doing on this? Did you elect to take it to someone else? Or have a go yourself? Any progress to report?

Well, sorry about the delay in replying; I have ignored my gmail account for a couple of weeks (I normally reserve it as a spam-filter, but not in this case).

Well, on the Tuesday after my last post we were ready to take it in to a Jaguar specialist that was recommended to me by the guys at Jaguar South (they source parts for every Jag, but only repair the much older models). Stripped the tarp off of the car, and, just on a whim, I turned on the key & tried the windows.

Hey, presto! they all worked. I closed them all and decided that - for the short term - windows that won't open are less of a problem than windows that won't close. I spent my working life troubleshooting electronics, so I know how futile it is to look for a problem that is intermittent in nature. The next time it becomes an issue, I will immediately take it in for repair. (Besides, the shop is a full hour away, which means a total of four hours of travel time for both of us. We are busy with various projects at home right now, so...) I did try wiggling the door loom quite extensively - with no luck. I tried various strategies daily over a period of about a full week, so why it decided to start working on the day it was going in, I can only blame on the perversities of the universe.

Anyway, that is the saga so far. I want to extend my sincere thanks to all who took the time to offer help.

Now if only I could find a good local Fiero group...
(the SC group seems to have vanished into the aether.)

All windows stuck down..
 

Joe, I have exactly the same problem as you. All my windows are stuck down after a GC..Cant get them back up. Have you managed to resolve anything further?
I have noticed that over the last couple of weeks pressing the window switch has had little effect on the front two windows and hit and miss on the back windows. I can tell there is power getting to the rear motors as I can hear a noise in the rear doors but only when I press the switch in the down position, pressing up wont lift. Nothing seems to be happening in the front doors.
I did try GC last time one of the windows wouldnt go back up and it did work in lifting all the windows. This time it did not, nothing is moving in the up position. I have just washed the car so I wonder if moisture may be an issue somewhere?
Keen to see how you may have got on. My battery is quite new.
Very frustrating..

jya, Joe last updated a year and a half ago. It would appear his wife's a/c is still working and he's been somehow successful in persuading her not to ever ease down a window, again. (how does one keep a wife out of the fast-food drive-thru's?!?)

Here's where you may likely end up, though if your rear window motors are running, you have a different problem: https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...2/#post1473671

Yes I did notice that his last post was some time ago aholbro1!! My kids and wife would go bonkers having to open the door through the fast food drive throughs!

In frustration I did remove the window switch, pull it apart, clean everything and re-grease it up. Whilst apart I did notice 4-5 ants between the rubber and the circuit board! Crumbs the kids leave behind in the back seat, however no idea what TF they were doing on the board under the window switches..Tried to press the switches up straight after reinstalling but nothing moved. Waited a couple of seconds, powered the window switches down and then straight up again (one by one) and they all decided to go up!! Since I got them all up I have been reluctant to try and see if things are back to normal and I can blame the ants.. Will keep you posted.

Hello, i have a similar problem. The right passenger window comes down and up only with the lock unlock buttons from the ignition key. Did anyone had this problem before?

hi
I have had it before where the window motor loses its enable signal
each window motor has 2 separate 12 volt feeds, a ignition feed and a enable feed
so when you checking at the motor there should be 2 12v feeds at the motor
the enable feed come from the drivers door module
Ive had this when the enable wire has broken in the door shut
so if you window goes up and down with the remote or door switch via global opening or shutting, then you have most probably lost the enable signal
also worth mentioning, if you disconnect the battery, the window that is faulty wont go up any more on global opening, because it loses its taught closed position, one touch function
also the windows motors can be tested and run on the bench, by putting the earth on, both 12v feeds and then putting a earth on either up or down to drive the motor
cheers
Joe

Drivers window switch. RHD vehicle
 

After pulling apart and cleaning out the drivers door window switch assembly not much change to the window operating problem..I did a visual on the several looms that attach to the door as well as tug on the 'body to door' loom whilst holding the removed door trim and operating the window switches at the same time but windows wont move.
Whilst switch assembly was apart I greased up the switches and killed many ants crawling on the board which would not have helped.
The 2 front window switches started to fail at first - sometimes powered windows up and down and sometimes not, a few times I had to repeatedly keep pressing the switch to fully raise- now all switches have failed on the drivers door. Curiously the only thing the drivers switch will do is -power down/lower only- the RHS rear (passenger) window but wont raise it. On the other 3 doors each individual door switch however does power its respective window. There is obviously power to the drivers window door switch as both mirrors are fully operational as well as fold in.
Whilst checking all the fuses I noticed a blown 10A in the boot fuse box, second row 5th from the right - photo attached which shows it missing. I havent looked up what its for yet. Did replace it but no change.
Nothing obvious on the drivers door module but I am curious what the sticker on the module box means by 'This is a programmable part'?
I will try a new switch first and see how I go and then may have to move on to having the module checked.

It means it can be (re)flashed using appropriate tools. Not really relevant to a typical customer but can be to a dealer.