Originally Posted by mrNewt
(Post 2026510)
I know JLR started building their own engines around 2015 when they opened their new factory, but these old V8, from my own knowledge and reading some articles online, are at their core Ford engines, with probably some modifications added to them to meet Jaguar's needs (larger bore!?).
Even after TATA bought JLR, I know there was still a 10 year (or so) contract where the company will still rely on Ford to provide all their engines (until they started to do their own). Again, I won't claim I actually know, but the general knowledge "out there" seems to be that these engines are actually in fact built by Ford, not JLR. I will gladly stand corrected if I am mistaken. |
@Swimref - thank you for the detailed explanation - is kindly appreciated :). Is a nice history lesson that is definitely good to know! This should reside somewhere on a Wikipedia article (unless is already there and I completely missed it). Would help with clearing things for others as well.
And sorry for derailing this thread @ColleenS - that was not my intention. I have an invested interested as well (new to me XF with high millage and no history on if this upgrade was done yet on my car or not) and was trying to figure out all the options that we could use in order to find the "best" route. I guess in the end we are stuck with either sourcing the parts and do the work our-self, cough up the cash to do the repair or move on to better things. |
How many miles on your XF? I am trying to keep track so I sell my XF’s before that mileage where the timing chains need replacing. In a youtube video of used car buying tips they had a Ford pickup that they said needed the timing chains done and that it would be a $2500 job, so it doesn’t sound like Jag/Land Rover introduced this problem into their version of the V8 engine. |
Also, see here re the new Ingenium straight 6 petrol: https://www.jaguarmagazine.com/jagua...petrol-engine/
So not only turbocharged but electric supercharged. |
Would this kit work for our engines?
https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/TCK5030 Looks like it has key parts that are OEM. Much less expensive, and Atlantic British has proven to me to be a reputable seller of parts for our cars over the years. And even with the special toolkit, the price is way lower: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/BJAG303 |
Originally Posted by lotusespritse
(Post 2027131)
How many miles on your XF? I am trying to keep track so I sell my XF’s before that mileage where the timing chains need replacing. In a youtube video of used car buying tips they had a Ford pickup that they said needed the timing chains done and that it would be a $2500 job, so it doesn’t sound like Jag/Land Rover introduced this problem into their version of the V8 engine. Engine pulls very well and strong... but there are some interesting noises that I wouldn't associate them with a chain... but then again I'm not familiar with this engine. To me sounds a lot like either a vacuum leak... combined with something that I could swear are lifters noise... I know we don't have them, that's why I find it weird... When accelerating, for a short period, you can hear a louder noise like a diesel engine (but that I thought is because of the direct injectors). Anyway, I was planning to start a new thread on this to hear some opinions on what it might be and maybe get some videos in there. I don't want to hijack this thread. Regarding the chain noise... ALL chain timing cars will have this issue eventually. Chain will naturally stretch over time so contrary to the believe, chains are not forever. Also, these oil actuated... actuators... are not the most reliable things ever. A lot of cars (even more reliable ones... like Hondas) have issues with them. With the 5.0 V8 Jaguar engine, from my readings, things get more problematic because of their decision on using a soft metal for the chain tension guides. Apparently the actuators are eating away at these guides in an alarming time :/...
Originally Posted by lotusespritse
(Post 2027167)
Would this kit work for our engines?
https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/TCK5030 Looks like it has key parts that are OEM. Much less expensive, and Atlantic British has proven to me to be a reputable seller of parts for our cars over the years. And even with the special toolkit, the price is way lower: https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/BJAG303 That tool-set is actually a good deal I think - nice find! |
Originally Posted by lotusespritse
(Post 2027167)
I'm now almost certain based on weeks of studying part numbers and manuals that LR engines only had the 8.0mm pitch INA chaingear, but I could of course be wrong. I have yet to see anything suggesting that the LR 5.0 V8 engines ever had Tsubaki 6.35mm chains fitted. Note that the problem with tensioners wearing down chain guides affecting 2010-2012 5.0 V8 engines affected both chaingear types, as they shared the same tensioner and chain guides - so the issue affected LR as well as Jaguar engines. If you have the Tsubaki (6.35mm pitch) chaingear it's entirely possible to change to 8.0mm gear - I did it with my rebuild - but you need to replace all four VVTs, the crank sprocket, oil pump sprocket, and the auxiliary drive shaft as well as obviously chains, tensioners and guides. It can be done cheap ish using similar suppliers and sources as Atlantic British.
Originally Posted by lotusespritse
(Post 2027167)
And even with the special toolkit, the price is way lower:
https://www.roverparts.com/Parts/BJAG303 |
Originally Posted by davetibbs
(Post 2027259)
This toolkit can be found on eBay for under half that price. Probably made by the same factory in Guangzho Province :D
|
Originally Posted by davetibbs
(Post 2027259)
I'm now almost certain based on weeks of studying part numbers and manuals that LR engines only had the 8.0mm pitch INA chaingear, but I could of course be wrong. I have yet to see anything suggesting that the LR 5.0 V8 engines ever had Tsubaki 6.35mm chains fitted.
I've been on the look out for replacement parts on these engines for guides, chains and all that and I asked for clarification on either my chains are 8 or 6.35 pitch. The guys that are specializing on Jaguar parts only, were not able to help me, but they went directly to Jaguar with my VIN number and asked what are the parts needed for my upgrade. Jaguar came back and said for my VIN I need the 8mm chains, not 6.35mm. Today I got back their reply and it looks like Jaguar recommends the following parts for replacement: - C2Z22078 x2 - Chain primary - C2Z28429 x1 - Guide chain - C2Z28430 x1 - Guide chain - C2Z28431 x2 - Blade chain - C2Z28428 x2 - Tensioner-C Total cost: $798 CAD (not US $ - not including shipping or taxes). Primary chains are around 105CAD and the tensioner-c is around 160CAD (these seems to be the most expensive parts). |
Originally Posted by mrNewt
(Post 2027456)
@davetibbs - maybe that is not entirely true!?
I've been on the look out for replacement parts on these engines for guides, chains and all that and I asked for clarification on either my chains are 8 or 6.35 pitch. The guys that are specializing on Jaguar parts only, were not able to help me, but they went directly to Jaguar with my VIN number and asked what are the parts needed for my upgrade. Jaguar came back and said for my VIN I need the 8mm chains, not 6.35mm. Today I got back their reply and it looks like Jaguar recommends the following parts for replacement: - C2Z22078 x2 - Chain primary - C2Z28429 x1 - Guide chain - C2Z28430 x1 - Guide chain - C2Z28431 x2 - Blade chain - C2Z28428 x2 - Tensioner-C Total cost: $798 CAD (not US $ - not including shipping or taxes). Primary chains are around 105CAD and the tensioner-c is around 160CAD (these seems to be the most expensive parts). Your signature mentions your engine is a 2012 - as far as I can tell, they only used 6.35mm chains for a certain number of VINs, then went to 8.0mm only - your VIN might be after this point so they know yours is 8.0mm. |
Originally Posted by davetibbs
(Post 2027511)
Not sure what in my statement is untrue as a result of that ;)
Your signature mentions your engine is a 2012 - as far as I can tell, they only used 6.35mm chains for a certain number of VINs, then went to 8.0mm only - your VIN might be after this point so they know yours is 8.0mm. For whatever reasons I read as "as far as your research went, all Jaguar were probably fitted with the 6.35mm and LR with the 8.00mm". I guess I'm tired... tired and in desperate need of a vacation :(. |
We live in Fort Worth and our independent shop replaced the chains, guides, tensioners and while apart also replaced water pump (which had started leaking) as well as cross-over pipe. Did it last year at about 63k miles for a lot less than the price quoted to the original poster. 26.5 hrs,+ $1407.39 parts... Quoted price sounds a little (no, make that a lot...) high.
|
Originally Posted by davetibbs
(Post 2027259)
If you have the Tsubaki (6.35mm pitch) chaingear it's entirely possible to change to 8.0mm gear - I did it with my rebuild - but you need to replace all four VVTs, the crank sprocket, oil pump sprocket, and the auxiliary drive shaft as well as obviously chains, tensioners and guides. It can be done cheap ish using similar suppliers and sources as Atlantic British. |
Originally Posted by kansanbrit
(Post 2284512)
Dave, why do you need to change anything related to the oil pump 3rd chain if you change from 6.35 to 8.0 on the main chains? The cam chains crankshaft gear is separate so can't you just leave the 3rd setup as is?
Interestingly enough, the 8.0mm 3rd chain crank sprocket (AJ813711) now runs at $434, which seems pretty insane given the front one (C2Z31438) is like fifty bucks. |
Originally Posted by davetibbs
(Post 2284942)
Interestingly enough, the 8.0mm 3rd chain crank sprocket (AJ813711) now runs at $434, which seems pretty insane given the front one (C2Z31438) is like fifty bucks.
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Originally Posted by kansanbrit
(Post 2285269)
Not sure why it should be so expensive from JLR.
I remember when I was living in the UK years ago a common modification that a lot of people would do to various cars was to install a front splitter from a Seat hatchback (I forget which) because it was easy to modify to fit most cars with a similar sized front bumper, and was pretty cheap to buy from Seat dealers, but once word got out on the car forums and everyone started doing it, Seat found themselves with a problem as they'd only had a certain number of these splitters made to sell as replacement parts - I believe that European law requires car manufacturers to provide parts for 10 years after a car is purchased. In the end I believe the cost of the splitter ended up becoming eye-wateringly expensive as they tried to stop everyone buying it, and they maybe even went to the extent of requiring proof of ownership of the car (something that other small manufacturers do to avoid this same problem). Obviously this isn't likely the case with the rear crank sprocket, being the (current) 8.0mm pitch, so my suspicion is either there was maybe a trend for dealers/rebuilders to change the 6.35mm chains to 8.0mm and they used up stock quicker than originally anticipated, or more likely is this is just a random pricing anomaly. |
Originally Posted by Jagcrew
(Post 2027738)
We live in Fort Worth and our independent shop replaced the chains, guides, tensioners and while apart also replaced water pump (which had started leaking) as well as cross-over pipe. Did it last year at about 63k miles for a lot less than the price quoted to the original poster. 26.5 hrs,+ $1407.39 parts... Quoted price sounds a little (no, make that a lot...) high.
|
Hi all,
Great thread so far and it got me thinking regarding my own 2011 XFR and if I have 8 mm or 6.35mm. I found this link that show the difference in chain - A is 8mm pitch and B is 6.35mm pitch https://f01.justanswer.com/crzydrvr0...or+tsubaki.pdf Taking the oil cap off you can easily see what type of chain your engine has. Luckily mine is 8 mm if anything goes wrong. Wanted to advise here incase someone else needs to know. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...d818bd0aac.jpg |
Originally Posted by Angrycanuck
(Post 2288738)
Hi all,
Great thread so far and it got me thinking regarding my own 2011 XFR and if I have 8 mm or 6.35mm. I found this link that show the difference in chain - A is 8mm pitch and B is 6.35mm pitch https://f01.justanswer.com/crzydrvr0...or+tsubaki.pdf Taking the oil cap off you can easily see what type of chain your engine has. Luckily mine is 8 mm if anything goes wrong. Wanted to advise here incase someone else needs to know. |
Originally Posted by Angrycanuck
(Post 2288738)
Hi all,
Great thread so far and it got me thinking regarding my own 2011 XFR and if I have 8 mm or 6.35mm. I found this link that show the difference in chain - A is 8mm pitch and B is 6.35mm pitch https://f01.justanswer.com/crzydrvr0...or+tsubaki.pdf Taking the oil cap off you can easily see what type of chain your engine has. Luckily mine is 8 mm if anything goes wrong. Wanted to advise here incase someone else needs to know. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...d818bd0aac.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...ab304c7bc.jpeg |
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