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-   -   Hypothetical question (intake manifolds) (https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xjs-x27-32/hypothetical-question-intake-manifolds-209531/)

VancouverXJ6 10-18-2018 12:49 PM

Hypothetical question (intake manifolds)
 
If the V12 intake manifold & filter assembly could be redesigned from the ground up and offered as a drop in replacement for the stock unit what characteristics (technical or cosmetic) should it have?

I know AJ6 Engineering used to offer enhanced versions with flow matched runners and trumpets added inside but this service was discontinued due to health/age issues.

There was also a fellow here awhile ago with Group A? manifolds he was making which had several improvements but no doubt cost a fortune to build, but I'd rather explore options for something better rather then reinvent a poorly made wheel.

Daim 10-18-2018 01:38 PM

Personally, they look pretty. But they aren't as efficient as they could be. I'd see if it would be possible to form them like the Volvo B6304S1 intake manifold is. All runners are equal length and start from a ball. Like that all air is taken in correctly and perfectly. Or another way, have 6 individual throttle bodies right in front of the head ports.

Maybe even a switchable intake runner, like many smaller 4 cylinders have to up the torque at lower rpms and up the hp at higher rpms.

JigJag 10-18-2018 05:38 PM

Significant cost and complexity with little upside to performance? Sounds like someone’s ideal project.

All opinion from here...

Uneven runner lengths are not bad. They distribute the peak flow over a range of RPMs rather than stack them up at one. Who can take advantage of that in actual use?

Plenums are undersized, but not drastically, enlarging these may offer the best bang for your many bucks.

Adding inlet bells inside the plenums is not going to significantly impact performance.

Tying the two banks plenums together more effectively may be an untried mod that could be significant. Effectively doubling the plenum size for both banks, tying both plenums air masses and both throttle bodies together could have significant benefit. A throttle neck sized alluminum runner connecting the front of each plenum together should do.

Heads still sit there like the bouncer at the club door.


VancouverXJ6 10-18-2018 07:32 PM

Thanks,

I have a set of manifolds sitting on my coffee table...thats normal right? ...anyway after spending an entire saturday polishing them I wondered if it was worth extruding/flow match and ceramic coating them or having a CNC shop design something better or some improved variation. My original plan was to have the spare set enlarged and smoothed out then coated because it's only $200 here to do them, and there were proven hp gains when heat shielding was used under the manifolds in track/race applications.

As with most Jaguar things if your going to spend $xxxx for questionable gains, why not spend abit more and go all the way? There are a handful of shops in north america and australia that could easily fabricate something better its just a matter of setting the parameters for the design.


Tying the two banks plenums together more effectively may be an untried mod that could be significant. Effectively doubling the plenum size for both banks, tying both plenums air masses and both throttle bodies together could have significant benefit. A throttle neck sized alluminum runner connecting the front of each plenum together should do.
I have a spare set of crossover pipe fittings I could add a second pipe on the front of my car and see, if nothing else it would make for a saturday well spent.


Another question I had was what exactly are the design changes through the years with these manifolds? there are multiple part numbers on the jaguarclassicparts website diagrams but aside from overrun valves and other non-critical stuff it isn't immediately apparent.

ronbros 10-18-2018 07:34 PM

cylinder heads are the main air flow restrictions, the Jag V12 was never designed as a REAL Hi-performance engine!

it was designed to be smooth ,no vibration, and have 12 cylinders, (Ferrari ,etc). all selling points back 40/50yrs ago!

i still love the damn things , one of my 1st cars was a 12 cylinder Lincolns.

ron

LongJohn 10-18-2018 08:45 PM


VancouverXJ6 10-18-2018 10:29 PM

Thats abit more complicated then what I was thinking, but it is one of the images that inspired my quest. A universal easy drop-in solution that plugs into the existing throttle/fuel assembly is more marketable.

warrjon 10-19-2018 02:55 AM

The GRPA manifolds are useless on a 5.3L road car, they don't make power until 4500rpm+, so unless you plan on a min of 7500rpm redline do not go this big with the runners.

A friend of mine has built a lot of high power Jag V12 race engines including engines for Roddy, his advice to me for intake manifolds was, use the stock runners and add a larger plenum, 100mm (4") square and move the TB's to the front.


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