XJS - collector or not? your opinion
 

I for one would love to see our XJS' eventually be considered collectors. After all we all have a vested interest that they do.

As the XJS was intended to replace the XKE as a luxury grand tourer, father time has awarded the XJS its own niche in the collector circle of fine cars. But car enthusiasts and collectors are not as benevolent.

So I ask,

in your own honest opinion, are XJS' collectors? And if so, which?

early XJS,
XJS Coupe
XJS-SC
HE series

Not quite sure if I understand but if you're referring to prices, I disagree :-). I love that fact that (most) older Jags have low market values. It opens up ownership of some great cars to those of modest means.

Investor types would disagree with me, naturally.




I think it's anyone's guess. I can remember in the 70s when every used car lot had used XKEs for $2500. Who knew they'd "take off"? Same for so many others, including American musclecars.

Personally I don't think the XJS was ever popular enough, or appreciated enough, to become a highly coveted collector/investment car. It lacks the icon status of even a prosaic 1965 Mustang.

However, the small-ish group that DO appreciate them will probably, and gradually, start paying more for excellent examples....of which fewer and fewer remain, it seems.

Cheers
DD

Inevitably the prices will skyrocket. Not today, maybe not tomorrow, but at some point. I'm stockpiling $3k examples :D

The XJS is just too special.

I dunno.....at the risk of getting flamed:

Three words describe why I think the XJS may not achieve collectors status.

Personal..... Luxury.... Automobile.

I know that everybody here classifies the XJS as a grand tourer, but damn near everything reminds me of the personal luxury class of automobiles that Detroit built in the early '70's. Bucket seats, center console with floor mount automatic shifter, tilt steering wheel, Big Block V8s.

The late 60's, early 70's Pontiac Grand Prixs (How would you spell the plural of "Prix"?) 1968-1972 and the same years of Chevy Monte Carlo. Just before they became the big behemoths with under powered small block mills.

Don't get me wrong. I love those cars. My best friend in high school had a 1972 Grand Prix. I swear piloting my '92 XJS feels the same as his GP. Puts me right back in the late '70s/early 80s when he had it. But the prices of those cars didn't exactly skyrocket.

howlinowl

Howlinowl.
Horses for courses.
It all depends on your defintion of a Grand Tourer.
The Pontiac Grand Prix (don't worry about the plural, it's French so nobody cares), with its bucket seats and floor mounted whatsit was a brilliant Grand Tourer until it happened upon a corner at speed whereupon it went straight back to its roots and started ploughing furrows in the adjacent field.
Grand Tourers are a strictly European concept, designed for a European class that had money and time to spare.
Apart from being able to show a clean pair of chromed, twin (or quad) exhaust pipes to any of of the riff raff or hoi polloi that dared to venture on the Auto Routes, they also had to be able to negotiate tiny little villages and awesome mountain passes and yet arrive at the destination on the Mediterranean coast with the driver having barely broken sweat and the lady passenger not having had to change her underwear several times.
Done it a 1977 Porsche 911s; holy crap, that was scary but fun.
Done it a V12 XJS Cabriolet; are we there already?
The XJS was never designed as a sports car but having let several 'sports car' friends drive my bog standard 1993 4 litre Coupe it is quite funny watching them trying to provoke the car into doing something wrong which it unfailingly didn't.
As for 'collectability': I live in a tiny village in Wiltshire and there are 3 (ok, 2 of them are mine so maybe that doesn't count). I work on cross channel (that's the English Channel) ferries and I probably see 3 or 4 a week, not all the same ones.
They are out there and every time that I see one it is in better condition than the last one that I saw so I think that people are starting to look after them properly.
Apart from me of course, at the end of the day it's just a car and you can pick them up for pennies. That's why I have two.
Note to self: get a life!
Steve

Interesting observation.

I had a '69 Grand Prix for years (great car) and now that you mention it, there IS a certain similarity to the way they both felt. And the "personal luxury vehicle" moniker does apply to the XJS especially in the later years.

In the early days, say through the early-mid 80s, the XJS still has some GT/performance flavor to go along with the luxury aspects. As time marched on, though, the performance aspects were overshdaowed by the competition and the ages old XJS design couldn't really compete in that arena. However, as a prestigious "personal luxury car", it could still make a quite a splash. If you look at how Jaguar advertised and marketed the car from beginning to end it becomes fairly apparent, IMHO, that Jaguar took the car in just that direction, sucessfully making the very most of what they had.

In a bit of irony, or perhaps the exception that proves the rule, the brawny-ist version of the car came at the very end in the form of the 6.0 liter models although they were no less luxurious than the six cylinder cars.

Cheers
DD

They're already classics. Right now, only the best examples are worth something but that will change soon enough.

Heh heh, define "something" :-).

In many case the prices of a fair/decent example would have to double or triple to even hit $10,000 ! Ten years ago many were saying that XJS prices would start climbing "any time now" and they've only dropped more!

I can see gradual increases over a period of years but I really don't think these cars will ever be "pots of gold".

Then again, I could be wrong :-)

Cheers
DD

Ah, but now you are talking marketing.
Don't forget that Jaguar could not give the last E Types away so they painted them black and marketed them as something special. That is exactly what they did with the run out XJS, little knowing that they finally created the car that they should have done in the first place.
The XJS was introduced exactly in time with the first 'global' oil crisis and at the same time everybody was expecting a fantastic replacement for the E Type.
Curious aside here, E Type to us in Europe, XKE in the 'States. New F Type in Europe, is it XKF in the 'States?
Britain is littered with the residue of failed sports car producers, all of whom set out with the best intentions, the absolute best engineering integrity and absolutely no idea how to market their products properly. You only have to look at the names that will bring a smile to some people ('I knew someone who had one of those, wouldn't bloody buy one myself if you paid me'); TVR, Lotus (Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious), Caterham, MG (massively supported and loved by Americans but where are they now?), Triumph, Jenson (pioneers of four wheel drive for road cars), Ginetta, Vincent (sorry, bit of self indulgence, a kit car made by my brother in law and his family), Bristol, (starting up again?).
And then if you stretch slightly further than our soggy little island; Bitter, Lancia and I am sure an awful lot more.
Jaguar is one of those famous names that, for whatever reason, did not join the enormous list of of car manufacturers that we fondly tell our children about but have fallen by the wayside.
As for marketabilty? The XJS ran from 1975 to 1996: there are not many cars that you actually have to ask what year it is because it was made for over 2 decades.
Collectabilty? It's a car, pump up the tyres and light the fires!
Stop worrying about it, if you can start the bloody thing then sit in it and drive it.
And don't forget, it's a Jag so it doesn't like being cosseted, drive it like you stole it.
Here endeth the lesson.
Steve

Right on ! :-)


Cheers
DD

I love my BRG '96 4.0. convertible. Not very fast, light to light. Not economical gas mileage wise. What it has in spades is class and exclusivity. Never see one in Richmond, VA except mine. Also beauty and perfect handling.

At the end of the day a car is a tool.
Sometimes, some of us want to have slightly different tools than everybody else does.
But (and a big 'but') without feeling very clever about it.
Steve

Are there any collectible cars that had a 20 year run with over 115,000 units produced?

When I think collectible, I think of a model run that had a few specific years that was special, which made it collectible.

2 body styles, 5 engines, 115,000 units. I don't know of another collectible model that fits this bill.

I believe that only the XJRS would be collectible. Only because it truly was rare and special.

Does the XJS really handle that well? Aside from the IRS, is the suspension system of the XJS really all that special? Maybe the earlier cars, but the later models (like my '92) they even quit putting the rear anti-sway bar on. Front bar is something like 1 inch, I believe. Maybe the XJS handles less like a wet sponge than an old GP, but I'd think it would be marginal at best.

Anyway, it all depends on what Joe Average's image of the XJS is to make it more collectable. I imagine Joe Average would probably see more "Personal Luxury" in the XJS than "Rocket Sled on Rails".

howlinowl

Now we're getting into the semantics of "collectible" :-)

Rarity and collectible are not always related and, for that matter, being collectible doesn't always mean high prices.

Sixties vintage Mustangs and musclecars were built in huge numbers and are very collectible. Over 50,000 E-types were built...hardly a limited production model...and it's a collectible by most anyone's measure.

Cheers
DD

If you're accustomed to driving a 60s-70s vintage land yacht, the XJS feels like it's on rails. If you're accustomed to driving a 911, the XJS is a barge :-)

Like all Jags the XJS straddles the line between comfort and cornering. Those wanting more will find them very responsive to typical upgrades to bias things towards better cornering.

Cheers
DD

Too true. It's uncommon to see a collectible car that was not popular or an object of desire in its heyday. The E-Type was iconic.

The XJ-S was too unconventional to merit collectible status in my opinion. That's great news for anyone looking to get one on the cheap, but don't hold you breath waiting for these things to appreciate.

Cheers,

- Will

Well, I'm learning more and more about the history and lineage of the XJS, and even after reading all the comments in this thread, and others before -I can only speak of MY car and the comments, looks, and attention it commands wherever I am with it. -I proudly tell anyone it is 24 years old, and the condition tells people she's treated like a Collectors item. I've been asked to display the car in two car shows in the short 7 months I've owned it, and have been asked to join a local car enthusiast club, the Valley Cruisers.
Owning this sweet little car and putting it through her paces brings me back to my muscle car days, and I'm loving it!

I don't know. It seems that any 3k car around Dallas is quite ropey. I see low mileage cars at over $15k on ebay. I have no idea if they're selling for that, but people are certainly asking.

Yeah, it really does. Low ride height (what, 4.5" of ground clearance?) helps a lot. Of course, these cars are old by now, and if you judge its handling qualities by a worn example, it may well feel a bit pillowy.

A properly sorted, never mind an upgraded XJS absolutely feels like a slot car on rails. These things can be tuned razor sharp and still maintain a comfortable ride.

Polyurethane bushings, new shocks and springs, upgraded anti sway bars, and modern wheel + tire fitments really make this car contemporary.

I've never owned a 911 or a Grand Prix, Mustang, etc. But I can say, the XJS is a posh sportster compared to the MGs I had. :) The MG's were novel, and a rush in a club run. The Jag - is a complete rush.

Seems I've kinda derailed this topic from "collectable or not" to "handling or not".

I've already addressed the lack of a rear anti-sway bar as proof of the XJS as a not quite as serious handling road car. I'm kinda wondering if anyone knows if the suspension is equipped with single load rated springs, or variable rate (some call them progressive rate) springs. If it has single rate springs, I might concur...a bit.... If it has variable rate (some coils are stiffer than the others, the softer coils give a soft ride but you have to bottom those out before you get to the stiffer ones), then I'm still leaning into the "personal luxury" camp.

Any car can be improved. Some may have noticed the 1973 Mach One in my signature. The 71-73 Mustangs are laughable being considered "pony cars"...big behemoths they were. I spent considerable money on that car over the course of 29 years I owned it. In 1988 I rebuilt the front and rear suspension and steering. Replaced the variable rate springs with stock height single rate springs from Meyer Racing Would knock the fillings out of your teeth on rough roads. Replaced the front 7/8 inch anti-sway bar with a 1 1/8 inch and installed a 7/8 rear bar (both with poly bushings) from Addco. Koni adjustable shocks. Replaced the 14 inch wheels and tires with 15 inch (reason I didn't go with the 1 inch lower springs from Meyer Racing, worried about tire rub....good thing because the drivers front tire did do a little rubbing on lock to lock turns).

No twisty mountain roads here in South Florida, but that car was a blast on interstate exit and entrance cloverleafs. Enter the turn, tromp the pedal and take it to the verge of breaking the front tires loose in understeer (being a car with most of the weight over the front wheels, it always wanted to understeer). Usually with one hand on the steering wheel, because the stock seats and shoulder/lap belt were completely useless for any kind of sideways support, so I was usually bracing myself in left had turns by holding against the passenger seat....right turns I'd just lean against the driver's door.

A stock XJS probably handles better than a stock Mach One. My Mach One probably handled better than a stock XJS. A modified XJS may or may not handle better than my Mach One. But it doesn't matter, because what will determine if the XJS becomes more collectable is the publics perception of it.

I still think Joe Q. Public sees Jaguar as a luxury make, hence the perception of the XJS as a personal luxury automobile.

howlinowl

Heh heh.....now we have to define "good handling" !

If zero body lean in corners is the goal, well, any car's suspension can be stiffened up to do that. The obvious next question is "what happens if you hit some rough road in the middle of the corner?" Ahhhhh.....that's where compromise comes in :-)

The rear anti-roll bar appeared/disappeared/reappeared a few times during the XJSs production run. I'm not aware (could be wrong) of any of the last (1992-later?) cars having one which does indeed suggest that Jaguar felt the buyers on the intended market segment wouldn't appreciate the improvement. Hard to say what Jaguar was thinking but saving a few dollars per car almost certainly was a "plus" for them :-)

But, even lacking the rear bar, XJSs are stable, controllable, and predictable in the corners and rough surfaces do not upset any of this.

In any case, I think it's fair to say that overly-stiff suspension has never been considered acceptable to Jaguar on any model, even "R" models and current sporty XK cars. Any road test you read today on any Jaguar model will echo exactly what you've read 10-20-30-40-even 50 years ago: Jaguar has *always* leaned (no pun intended) towards the softer side of the compromise when compared to competitive makes.

Cheers
DD

I agree.

And for many years, decades really, Jaguar itself promoted their cars as elegant, luxurious, prestigious things and virtually abandoned any performance heritage or pretense. Only in the last few years has that been reversed and we're seeing a return to "Jaguar" being a name associated with speed and performance.

Cheers
DD

Grace, space and pace :)

Beat me to it...............that's the slogan I remember from my childhood....:icon_smile:

I feel I must amend my observation about the handling of an XJS. Not perfect in the 911 sense but for a 4,000 pound car they do very well. My previous special car was a Lincoln Mk 8. Same weight, air ride suspension but not nearly as stable in twisties. I do consider the AC system in the later XJS cars to be a detriment to their value. The 4.0 inline engine, however has, thus far been more dependable than the 4.6 litre 32 valve Ford engine the Lincoln had in it. Just MHO.
RagJag

I recall reading that the rear sway bar was actually detrimental to the handling in these cars, causing them to lose traction in the back and slide uncontrollably?

Yes.

No.

:-)

The rear bar does increases the XJSs tendency to get tail happy on low traction roads. Otherwise it is generally accepted that the rear bar makes a good overall improvement in the balance and feel of the car thru corners.

Legend has it that Jaguar track tested the car with/without the rear bar and found that it wasn't any faster with the rear bar versus without. Quite possibly true. But what is preferable on the track isn't always what feels best in the real world.

In most cases owners who are really concerned about cornering behavior will absolutely want the rear bar and feel a bit cheated by not having it. Those not so concerned could care less :-)

Cheers
DD

WOW; i'm glad this ones settled, must be full moon , everybody had an opinion!

well i for one wish and hope XJS prices go up, i got close to 30K in mine, its 600lbs lighter than stock, it has over 100 more HP and torque, it has upgraded Wilwood brakes, bigger front bar(no REAR) polybushes , Good gas shocks, 18-10 wheels, good tires,ETC.

shows as a 9.9 car at shows(not snooty jag shows), they dont know the difference between comp.ratio and gear ratio.

While I am a big advocate of the XJS, I don't think they will ever be truly "collectible" - far too many of them were built for that. Having said that, I think there will continue to be a good market for the best cars.

IMO, the XJS convertible is one of the best looking cars on the road.

The XJS makes a very good "modern classic" - a distinctive car for the person who doesn't like all of the technology found in today's look alike cars but still wants a "modern car". I don't particularly think the styling is all that dated, especially the late face lift cars.

As I see it, and I know no more than anyone else, the cars in the best condition and having sensible upgrades will have a steady market. Those of us who own top quality cars must do all we can to demand a good price when it comes time to sell. The "bottom feeder" cars are best sold off to be forgotten projects or sent to salvage yards. It will take a few years still to get them out of the market, but once gone prices for the best will increase. We won't get rich, but we won't lose money either. Compare the care and feeding of a top quality, upgraded twelve cylinder XJS to the other available twelve cylinder cars...

To continue with my pontificating...I would bet that half of the 115,000 built have gone on to that great highway in the sky. So that leaves 55,000 still on the road. Of that 55,000 let's say half are in a somewhat neglected condition. Now we have the original 115,000 cars down to 25,000 to maybe 35,000 worldwide that are in fairly good shape... should attract the $$. When that E Type isn't available an XJS makes a nice alternative.

It's impossible to say what will be collectable in the future.
One things for sure with classic cars, it's the earliest of the breed that usually attract investors and enthusiasts. Did any 'e' type ever look as good as the original 3.8 series one ?
The longer they stay in production they often just get fatter , uglier and less attractive.
As far as the XJS goes my investment money would go on the very first
black bumper PRE HE models. Good manual examples are already heading north of £ 15k in the UK.


Not sure I quite understand the too many made and too many variants made to be collectable argument.





5,378,776 of these were made in every variation imaginable and this recently took a shade under £ 30k at auction.
Even well restored basic versions are rising past £ 15k




http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s131/richkaz/mc.jpg

I think they also made a few of these


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...chkaz/beet.jpg

Anything half decent will always command a premium over the bog standard stuff.
Really good examples of late models are going for strong money and that will sooner or later filter down to the less perfect model.
Check out ::::::::::::::::::CLARKES JAGUAR XJS:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: for an interesting spread of prices and models.
Having said that I don't think that we are any where near the place whereby you are going to make a profit restoring a ropey one; you are much better off restoring or repairing it for your own pleasure; and the pleasure for everyone else who gets to watch you burble along in your pride and joy of course!
Steve

The proof of the pudding is as ever in the eating. In my corner of the world there is at the moment a surplus and even good ones go relatively cheap because everybody is jumping the XK8 bandwagon. In the UK the really good ones are climbing. Lots of bad and mediochre ones have dropped from sight over the past few years. So I believe the good ones are set to climb in a few years time.

The press always hammered the XJ-S for its looks (except the convertible) but lots of enthusiasts love the unique look. After all, more than 100.000 people were willing to shell out for a brand new one. So presumably there are enthusiasts who like it even today.

As for road behaviour, a good one (in particular upgraded or well kept SportsPack) is rather like a V12 roller skate. Remember Bob tullius' words: He took a bog standard one out on the track before he started to work his magic on what became the Group 44 XJ-S and reported that it was rock stable right up to 150mph. How many other cars were like that out of the box?

Then there is of course the V12 magic which hits both ways. It scares lots of people away, while for the like of me a six is a castrated XJ-S. An XJ-S can never be anything but a V12 for me :icon_clapclap::icon_band:

I feel the same way! No offense of course to our 6 cylinder brethren - we're all still on the same team!

I feel very strongly both ways :-)

I loved my V12 and think that any real car guy ought to have a v12 at least once in his life.

OTOH, "straight six" and "Jaguar" traditionally go together like hand in glove.

Cheers
DD

As long as it's not a V8 I don't care either way.

But I do love the V12, and while I don't ever think these will really be collectible, I think the day will come when so many V12s were scrapped or swapped that a well-sorted V12 will be worth something. I'm pretty sure I won't live to see that day, though. And I'm not very old.

when the majority of XJS's have rotted to pieces, the remainder will be worth something to collectors.

+1

There are variants in the interpretation of "collectible".

A Mercedes Gullwing or Maclaren are investment grade collectible because of their uniqueness. Not many people relate them to some incident in their personal history.

But lots of people of a certain age can remember a Cooper doing a smoky burnout somewhere. The fact that they were a possible personal driver of the time makes them desirable in later years once funds are available for personal indulgence.

They might not be investment grade ... but they sure are fun :)

I have 2 of them. Don't plan on ever being without one, so, I guess i am collecting :-). Don't know if the price will go up or not, lately there seems to be more interest than in recent years, but the prices still hover at about the same levels.