Tough decision, XKR vs XK8, or maybe not
 

I'm looking at two cars at the moment. One is a 2005 XK8 and the other is a 2006 XKR according to Carfax.

The XK8 although being a year older has 25K fewer miles and has the advantage that it is close enough (4 hours away) that I can drive over to see it on Saturday.

The XKR is a year newer but has higher mileage. It is also 1000 miles away. However, I happen to have 2 different friends, both car guys, who live about 15 miles from the R. One is on his way now to look it over closely. He doesn't know Jags but he does know British cars being a collector of classic Minis as well as an occasional muscle car.

To make it a more difficult decision they are both, effectively, the same price. Yes, the XKR is selling below market because of some minor mechanical issues that won't take much to correct.

Detailed pictures of both show them to be darn near immaculate, both inside and out.

If there are no major problems with the R then my wife and I are getting on a Southwest flight tomorrow to hand over some cash and take a road trip home. If there are problems we will do an 8-hour round trip road trip to bring home an XK8. Maybe.

Knowing that there is at least one bargain XKR might tempt me to forget about the XK8 and try to locate another bargain XK4 if there is an issue with the one I found.

Either way, I will soon have another Jag in my drive! I have cash, and know how to spend it. :icon_razz:

While I went for an 03 XK8, based on what you describe I'd get the XKR, however you note some issues with the XKR. Be very sure you understand the problems as these cars can be expensive to repair in relation to the cost of purchase.
Regardless welcome and either way you will find the X100 Jag a joy to own and drive.

have you seen this Supercharger with Handling package?

Cars for Sale: Used 2004 Jaguar XKR Coupe for sale in Memphis, TN 38128: Coupe Details - 434512139 - Autotrader

A friend sent me the same link about 2 hours ago. So tempting, except ...

I don't know anyone in TN who could look it over for me and it isn't a convertible. Mrs. Flowers and I really miss driving topless. (Get your minds out of the gutter!)

I'll keep it in mind in case all other cars I'm looking at fall through.

Thanks J. The XKR needs new rear wheel bearings, at least on one side. Also there is a sensor module in the driver's seat which has failed causing the air bag light to come on, I'm told. Sourcing a replacement will be the challenge.

The seller claims there are no other problems.

According to Carfax it did spend the first few years up North so rust could be a concern. However during that time it averaged less than 6,400 miles per year so I'm hoping it spent a lot of time in a garage hiding from bad winter weather and the road salt that goes with it.

One of my friends is test driving it right now, I think. I should know more soon!

One of the best investments that you can make is to purchase one of those remote camera, endoscope-like tools for automotive or contracting use. Look under the car on a lift to check the frame and all visible areas. Then remove the body plugs in the rear wheel wells and use the tool to look inside the rear rocker panels. Another sign that does not require this tool is to look at the seam at the very bottom of the rocker panel where it meets the floor pans. If you see any rust here especially where the paint seems to be peeling, walk away from the car. This is always a sign of something going on in the inside. I live in the NYC area and have regular use cars 15+ years old with none of this. It is completely unacceptable condition on a specialty car unless you are planing to restore and accept the work.

I have Carfax reports on both cars. The XKR has a completely clean record with 3 previous owners. The XK8 had a minor fender bump with no frame damage claimed. Pictures show the repair job was well done.

I understand. My gut is telling me the XKR is the one unless something really nasty is found.

I really should update my signature. Rust ate my X-Type to the point it would have been a deathtrap if I'd been in a collision. Sadly I got rid of it over a year ago.

I've never had cars that can really make power. The fastest I've owned was a Honda S2000 which was one heck of a lot of fun once you wound the RPMs up to VTEC territory. And it was great the one time we took it for a week to Gatlinburg and ran all over the twisty mountain roads.

Our kids are grown and gone. Maybe there will be grandkids someday but my daughter hasn't had any luck so far despite trying. But that's another story.

We do have 3 furkids that would fit back there just fine. George, our standard Poodle would love it! Sammy, our problem child with canine ADHD, would go insane with joy. :) Our little blind child would just want to crawl into the front seat and curl up in someone's lap.

5' 10" but I should have said I'm looking at convertibles.

Thank you. Pictures to follow as soon as I pull the trigger on something.

Thanks WH, that is excellent advice.

My one friend just finished looking over the car thoroughly and taking it for a test drive. There has been an intermittent trouble light for "rear wheel bearings" but it didn't show during this drive. Maybe a sensor problem?

Also the proximity sensor for the airbag has failed, not what I previously reported. Sourcing a new sensor could be a challenge; they aren't available from Jaguar any longer I'm told.

Other than that the car was clean inside and out. No signs of rust. This friend knows about looking for rust; he has an original GTO at a shop getting big sections of rust cut out of it (including shock towers) and new metal welded in. The tires show even wear so no alignment issues. It drove like a dream, he said!

I think it is time to start shopping for airline tickets. :D

If you have a condition where you live that rusts cars, you might want to consider the Corrosion Free application http://corrosionfree.com/ I have applied it to old and new cars with great results including the XK8.

The reason that I mention is that I have seen cars near the ocean corrode worse than cars in the Northeast by a large factor. Perhaps due to it being in the air, maybe sand abrasion.

It is not a destructive process and only leaves a clear somewhat slippery sheen. This is not a shellac or dark oily application at all. The plastics and wiring do very well with it and it can stop existing damage from progressing. I have older cars that look like new by using this.

Wishing good luck and much enjoyment.

Two things, I am also 5'10" like you and I fit fine in both the XK8 coupe and convertible. I am mostly legs in height and can get comfortable in the car. Get yourself one of those quick releases for the keys so that nothing hangs from the ignition when you are driving. This can annoy a tall person. My friend with the XK8 coupe is taller than me and has no trouble with either. It seems to me like the coupe has more headroom which is common with most cars.

Make sure that you measure ride height as this will tell you if it is time for springs and mounts which are not very expensive. Even the genuine Jaguar shocks are very reasonable. You want the Welsh mounts.

If you do the corrosion free application, make sure that they thread the hose into the rockers. PM me if you have any questions or ask here.

Best!

For fine negotiations check the upper shock mounts for crumbling foam and subtract $400 for the slightest crumble. Check the 4 ball joint boost closely and subtract $500 per torn boot.


People think I'm joking when I tell them this, but this is the minimum an honest mechanic will charge to fix these.

If there already are visible problems, I would encourage you to have the car checked by a shop that has the factory diagnostic tools (like the local dealer). The factory tools can interrogate each and every control module and ask for diagnostics through the OBD2 port. This should give you a better picture of what is going on, especially if you have to travel to go get it. Best case, a long list of codes gives you negotiation power, if you feel you can deal with the repairs. This is probably fairly inexpensive to get and easy to make arrangements for.

Another trick I have used is to call the service department of the local dealers if you have the VIN and a location from Carfax . As long as you focus on the car, service managers have generally been accommodating to my requests and shared the car's service history.

Last, there is no sensor for rear wheel bearing. There is a reluctor ring on the rear wheel for wheel speed, a major input into the transmission shifting logic. If this is a problem there, the car can go in "limp home" mode and make your trip home a lot less fun. You might want to know more before committing to a trip. On the other hand, a weak battery has been known to cause traction control module messages, too.

Best of luck, keep us posted.

You're dismissing issues without knowing the severity. These cars could have gremlins, and require some pampering.
The issues you describe may have been attempted to be repaired without success. Investigate further.
Also, you're about to drive 1000 miles in a car with warning lights on. Aren't you a bit uncomfortable with that? I would be.
The last thing you want, is that car to go into limp mode 900 miles from home and in the middle of nowhere.
Call me chicken, but something as simple as a faulty idler pulley almost blew my engine.

Pay for a pre purchase inspection by a shop that knows Jaguars. Unless you are wrenching,these cars can add up fast. Also, look for leaks or any indication valley/octopus hoses were changed. These are labor intensive on the XKR due to location in relation to supercharger.

Check my thread regarding the money I've dumped into my car. CarFax is not so accurate pre 2010.

Thank you all, you have given me much to think about. The only opportunity I have to go see/buy the car is this Saturday, then I'm tied up for the next 6-7 weeks. So although a PPI at a Jag dealer is the only sensible thing to do it is not an option for me.

Unless I get it practically free I am seriously considering walking away from it including tearing up the airline tickets my wife prematurely purchased.

I have been known to wrench on my own cars including a lot of work on our late X-Type and pulling the engine of a Miata, tearing it down, sending it out to be machined (it was a junkyard engine replacing a blown engine in an unfinished project car I bought from a friend), reassembling and reinstalling then autocrossing it for a number of years. Even though I had parts left over it ran just fine! (OK, it was just the AC bracket left over from removing the AC).

I *think* the XKR problems are all manageable, but I don't *know* that they can be resolved without spending money like dsd did (yes, I read your thread). And, yes, that scares me a bit.

I just received a call with his bottom line number: $9100. Not quite free, but awfully darned close!

If your worst case scenario is 60% of the purchase price for all potential work done at retail cost and you still like the car, make the purchase. Since this assume that you will pay a specialist to do everything that comes up, you now know your total potential cost. Obviously you are capable of doing some time consuming work yourself lowering the total cost. Additionally you will know who and how the work is done giving you greater control. This is how it worked with my XK8. As long as the non-negotiables are in place such as rust, collision and cosmetic condition you will have a great car. This is not the easiest find at this price point, go for it if everything looks good on Saturday. Where are you going to get a car this nice for about 14K?

Curious what you think of this take on the seller which I have seen before. A few little things that are tedious to fix, maybe requiring the eBay search and messaging specialty dealers and breakers. Dealer is not really interested in fixing an older car or cannot do it, seen this before. Does not have a local competent specialist. Just does not want to be bothered anymore figuring something else is bound to come up. Does not want to deal with multiple potential purchasers and bargain hunters. Maybe interest is limited to only us nuts. I have seen sellers of much more valuable things get worn down by the above and give things away that only needed minor work to be perfect and yield higher price. You just get a feel for it when you speak with them.

Yeah prices are all over the place. Low supply but low demand.

Honestly, at $9100 you can't go too wrong provided the car is safe to drive. It could end as a huge hassle, though. I'd think buying a turnkey car, even for much more may be a better move in the long run. I'd hate you to buy the car and hate it because so much is wrong. That said, it's only money and $9100 isn't the end of the world.

If you are going to risk it, make sure the car is exact version you want. Color/options. No fun restoring a car you settled for.

Drive them both and you won't have to ask this question LOL. Miles aren't always everything. I bought my 2002 xkr at a 108k miles, and it's still running strong with no issues 115k miles later. And it's my daily.

+1

WAFlowers, everyone here has given you sage advice on the possible pitfalls that you may encounter when looking for an XK* that is at least 10 years old. It does sound onerous, but it is absolutely right that they should do so: you have asked for opinions in order to make an informed judgment.

You have to decide whether this car is the one for you, or to pass and look for one that is less of an unknown quantity. Even then, there will be something that will need attention.

Having said that, and it's not my money at risk, the car is a late model high end Grand Tourer. If you are confident in your friend's ability to winkle out anything major, and yours to manage the routine stuff, I would be very seriously tempted at that price. I do, however, make no claim to that being a rational move :)

My main concern would be the logistics of transporting if it were to fail en route.

Good luck in whatever you decide.


Mike

I agree with you. Whichever way our new friend decides to go, looking forward to him getting one eventually.

If the xkr is in Plano Tx, I looked at it as well. The color wasn't on my high list and since I plan on keeping for a long time I passed. That car needed new front leather and is typical a full suspention rebuild. Using oem style shocks and doing all of the work myself I came up with a $5K figure (sus + leather). Still a good deal overall but since it wouldn't be a keeper...not for me.
I hope your adventure goes well.

wj

If that Plano car was a Coupe, I'd be at the bank right now getting cash.


"Suspension Rebuild" on a CATS car is maybe $400 in parts and a weekend + $400 for new drilled Brembo rotors and pads and suspension/brakes are done.

please inform where to purchase new 'active' shocks at above price, rather since I need to rebuild my xk8 frt/rear and the standard bilstein shocks alone at $420, + upper mounts + tie rod ends + links + control arms bushings + etc.
I think you missed a few components or have a line on parts I really envy!

wj

I should have said the "owner" is a used car lot that hasn't a clue what they have and don't know Jags! Also it has sat on the lot more than 3 months because it won't pass Texas safety check with the airbag warning light on so it is a tough sell. They aren't willing to put $$$ into fixing it to sell it; they just want to get rid of it, fast!

The passenger side airbag issue appears to be the common frayed wiring under the passenger seat causing a sensor "failure". Easy enough to trouble shoot and fix. I can probably do that myself, but a good friend of mine is a master electronic tech - the best I've met in my 40-year career - and is going to track down and correct that and the other "sensor" problem.

The ONLY other problem is the also common "Suspension Fault" which is probably bad connections to the rear shock selenoids.

Beyond that the car needs some TLC to get it clean and presentable.

We (wife and I) are flying there 1st class tonight - spoiling ourselves - to look at the car in person. If it is a hot mess we will walk away and just have a nice weekend visiting good friends that we don't see often enough. If the problems are what they appear to be we will be driving home.

I'll let y'all know what happens after we see the car. And maybe I'll even post some pictures as we stop on the drive home :icon_biggrin: if we drive home.

Yes, you guessed rightly as to which car I'm looking at. I've done suspension rebuilds before both myself and with friends so that doesn't scare me. I have the money to put into fixing up the car so that isn't an issue. I get satisfaction out of buying a "project car" and fixing it up, driving it for 2-3 years then flipping it for something else.

My wife says I'm driving her crazy and it is time for me to get another project car!

Those active shocks appear to be just over $400 per corner. I know there are other bits and pieces needed and it adds up. But labor isn't an issue.

The leather is another matter. I'm not expecting perfect leather on a 12-year old car (1/05 build date). If I were to keep it I would get the leather replaced, eventually. But, knowing me, I'll want another project in 3-4 years; maybe less.

And my wife and I prefer a convertible. She expressly forbade me to get a coupe! I'll be at the bank at lunch with the intent to buy the Plano car unless I discover something horrendous.

I think your prices are "per corner" certainly for the suspension. And there might be other bits and pieces needed for the suspension rebuild. Maybe a little under $4K in total?

It appears the brakes are good but not the original Brembo rotors. I can live with that for now and do them in the fall. (No one in their right mind does much work in the Florida summer unless they have an air conditioned shop!)

I will plan to do a suspension rebuild, after the electrical/sensor issues are resolved, before summer. The cash for that is already sitting in the bank, just waiting.

Does anyone have a quick link to a list of all the parts I would be needing for this job? If not, I know that search is my friend.

"Place held for a later reply please stand by for a detailed post of my recent experience on my xk8/r hunt"

A friend of mine who lived afew hundred miles away had a 98 xk8 coupe. When he bought it, he thrashed on it hard, soon It had so many issues that it was not drivable.Transmission mainly. He had it in his back yard for a couple of years until recently. He sold it on Craigslist for $500. That's what got me hooked on the xk8/r model, I would have bought it from him except he wouldn't sell it to someone one he knew. He didn't want to" ruin a friendship" I loved the body style, the way it rode and the look you get while going down the road. So that's my back ground.

I started my hunt, looking at early xk8's first, then doing more research, I found they made a xkR that had 100 more hp. If I wanted a car, to keepas an investment , it would be the faster one. Same as a Mustang GT vrs 6 banger one of the same year. The price difference was minimal on the two models. On further research, I found that early models though were several $k cheaper, to make sure all the updates on all the major manufacturer defect issues would bridge the savings gap really quick. So I started to look for an 03 or newer XKR. It also had to be a coupe, as I live in Oregon and it rains alot!!

I looked and looked for a example worth buying but still under budget, pretty hard to do. I looked at least 10 different cars. All of them were 300 to 500 miles away. All of them in my price range had been obviously beaten on, and minimal maintenance done.
I finally found one that another guy pointed out to me. Driver quality needing minimal work to get fixed up.
now after 2 months and 2k miles later, I have diagnosed that she will need a complete front end rebuild. She was nice and tight when I picked her up but now knocks thunks and pulls this way and that. It's like a drunk snake on the road. Totally different car from when I bought it.
come to find out, it's not the milage on thease cars, it's the age of the rubber. It's only good for 10 years. And my car sat a lot the last 6 years in a vacation home garage.

Now that I know I'm in for a complete front end rebuild, I have looked and looked for a complete kit. None will be had. You will need to buy piece by piece. My favorite source for car parts is www.rockauto.com .they did have a bunch of the front end parts, however they are usually cheaper quality. One thing I have found working on European cars is that you never buy cheap parts.
Due to the cost of oem rubber, I decided to go full urithane bushings, all the way around. As it was actually less expensive and better quality longer lasting pieces. I ordered from powerflexusa they have a realy good bushing diagram. I ordered the stut mounts from welsh (aperantly the only good product they make) and buying oem (Gawd Daym expensive) ball joints and tie rod ends, I will be pressing them in this weekend. I haven't kept the best of records on cost for the parts, but if it has not been done, you will be doing it soon. I would think I'm some what close to $1000 including shipping. For all the front and rear rebuild parts.

I also had the opportunity to troubleshoot a power surge in the high rpm range, and still haven't fixed the airbag light (really couldnt care) and seat adjustment issues. And it's not the module or the switches.

Good luck with the trip. Odds are in your favor it will be a successful one.

I bought my 2004 XK8 from a dealer in Pensacola. Paid for it before I saw it in person. Flew up and drove it home. It all worked out well for me - even though I DID struggle with the "OMG what have I done?" indigestion throughout the whole 6 hour trip home. :p

You were right about that XKR needing a lot of TLC. Interior looks like it has not been cleaned since last owner bought it. Paint needs a good buffing. Front end does look low so expect some clunks until you sort it out.

After you get it back home (how's that for optimism?) I'd be willing to meet and share what I have learned while restoring mine.

2006 CATS shocks on a Texas car are probably still good and just need the $30 lower bushings pressed out/in. I would do this first before Buying $400/ea new shocks.


$300 for Top mounts/bottom mounts front/rear and another $100 for factory style upper Wishbone bushings and maybe another $100 for inner/outer tie rod ends (if needed) and it should drive like a new car.


I would look under the car for torn balljoint boots and negotiate with those, but the mounts/wishbone bushings are driveway mechanic stuff I would trust my 17 year old to replace while I was at work.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...3f99c50921.jpg


Congrats/kudos on having such a competent kid. No small feat in today's world of "isn't there an app for that?" mentality.


.

Thank you. If I have any doubts about the car when I see it I will just walk away and buy something else, after spending a weekend visiting friends.

I've packed a big bottle of Tums! ;)

Cleaning doesn't scare me; I just get my wife to do it! LOL

One thing I don't do is paint detailing. I'm going to have to pay someone to buff, etc. the paint back to as good as it can be.

I'm prepared to deal with the suspension. I've done that before on at least 3 cars so it isn't something that scares me.

I like the way you think! Yes, I would really enjoy getting together with someone who has been down this road.

It spent the first 2.5 years in Michigan but only clocked 6100 miles. Rust was a major concern but I had that checked.

Possibly $30 to refresh the shocks? A bargain! If they are still good.

Thanks for the list. It all sounds within my planned budget.

I get the impression that I beat the dealer down as low as he will go, so it is either pay him or walk away.

I would be willing to walk away and buy something else. It could even be an XK8 if it was nice enough, like the one I was looking at in Jacksonville. If this XKR isn't the right car for me I know there are others available now and others that will show up later. Happily I'm in the position of not needing a car and having the cash available; I can be patient.

X100 don't have a positraction so someone from Michigan would drive it the snow only once per season and then chose something other than their $85K car to drive on winter Michigan roads. Rust is unlikely if it was only there when brand new. Rust would be more likely if it was there for multiple winter seasons when it was worth less. I think you'd be good.


Something that worries me about X100's in the front wheel bearings. Mine barely made it the 35 miles from East Dallas where I bought my '97 to central DFW where I live. If the car starts howling, the bearings are eating themselves and this is something 99% of repair shops you'll encounter between DFW and your house can't fix.


there is also an '06 XK8 close by in Addison for $10K


And Topline in Irving has a Low mile '06 Xk8 for $11K and they are just south of the airport. They also have some early X100's.


Dealers may not want to deal, but its a Buyers market.