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XJ ( X308 ) XJ8 / XJR 1997 - 2003

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  #1  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:57 AM
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Default Camber problem/question

HEY ALL,

i have a camber problem in my left front end. I am wearing out new tires fast on the inside..took a lot of tread off a brand new tire in 5k miles! I just had an allignment done and the left front was at like 1.6 degrees. The rest of the wheels are fine. The guy said I need new bushings, but I just had the control arm bushings done in the last 5k miles. After doing some research I think he was referring to me needing more of like the alignment cam bushings close to like the ball joint...they are more metal than the control arm bushings? If I am not making any sense I apologize, but hopefully you experts will know what I am talking about and be able to help me with a part number or what I need to replace the alignment bushings? thanks
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:37 PM
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Over the years my experience is that the XJ's are hard on tires -- especially the softer performance tires that IMO are the nicest for the car. The insides of the rears especially.

I don't see a mileage listed for you but the front ends often start to require bushing and the like at about 80k -- some of these can have an effect on the alignment. But to the best of my knowledge not the control arm bushing.

The alignment on these cars is very important and not everybody is familiar with them -- especially now that they are all at least eight years old. You need to have someone who is familiar with the XJ do the alignment. Was the alignment done before or after the tire problem? Once done correctly they are normally fairly robust -- although you certainly could have hit something that would have bent or knocked it off.

The dealer I go to normally loads the suspension and then does the alignment -- its the proper way to do these - but often not done. The XJ has a very different suspension setup -- and the design dates back to the 60's.


Unfortunately no way to tell from your post what specifically is the problem
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:42 PM
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Mileage is 75k. I already changed the control arm bushings. I had one alignment done at 65k after changing out a ball joint. Had the camber issue then, but since then I changed to some performance tires with 20 inch rims. I only have the inner wear on the front left tire. I guess what I am wondering is if there are alignment bushings that are kind of metal i would say that are separate from the control arm bushings. The place that did my alignment guaranteed if I changed what they called the alignment cam/metal bushings the car would align perfectly, but they could not find the part in their system and to be honest I am not sure what they are called or how to locate them. I suppose if noone here knows what I am referring to I can go back and talk to them and snap a picture as they made it seem like it was not the control arm bushings as i already replaced those.
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Old 01-21-2011, 03:13 AM
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I'm not sure if this helps or not - I had an alignment done, and the camber was set to max and the mechanic indicated I needed camber shims only available at Jaguar. He was able to get the camber within specs, but barely, and said I would need the shims at the next alignment.
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Old 01-22-2011, 07:24 PM
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interesting point..anyone else on here know anything about camber shims?
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:07 PM
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What the manual says...
"Each lower wishbone pivots on and is secured to the front crossbeam by two fulcrum bolts. A circular eccentric flange formed under the hexagonal head of each fulcrum bolt, has raised graduation marks to indicate radial position. A washer with a 'D' shaped hole locates on a flat on the threaded section of each bolt. This ensures that the washer rotates with the bolt, maintaining an eccentric position corresponding with the flanged head. The outer face of the washer is punch marked, ensuring correct installation with the chamfered face inwards. This permits the washer to rotate freely in the crossbeam cam reaction plate during a djustment. Each fulcrum bolt and washer are secured by a self locking nut.On rotation of the bolt, lateral movement of the eccentric flange and washer is restricted by the cam plate faces, forcing the bolt shank to move laterally in the crossbeam slots. Lateral movement of the bolt shank results in corresponding inward and outward movement of the wishbone arm, effecting adjustment of wheel alignment.Rotation of the front fulcrum bolt principally adjusts wheel caster angle, with a small amount of camber angle change. Adjustment of the rear fulcrum bolt mainly alters wheel camber angle with a small amount of caster angle change.On vehicles with VIN up to 833124, fulcrum bolt eccentric flanges have raised graduation marks representing 15 degree increments of bolt rotation from 0 to 90 degrees.On vehicles with VIN from 833125, the fulcrum bolt graduation marks represent bolt shank horizontal movement in 1mm increments from 0 to 3mm.The upper wishbone and fulcrum shaft are not adjustable and play no part in steering geometry adjustment."

What I say...
Camber is set with the front and rear fulcrum eccentric bolts. That is probably what tehy are calling the "alignment cam/metal bushings". I fail to see how any "camber shims" could move the bolts. And camber shims are used on a standard for double A suspension to move the upper "fulcrum shaft" in or out. Note the last sentence above.. XJ8s don't have such a mounting arrangement. MAYBE, there are bolts with larger eccentics and "tracks" but I doubt they would be called shims. Either the lower wishbone or other suspension part can be bent, but other than that there should not be a problem. unless the front crossmember was bent.

And... could someone please cite references other than the grease monkey at the tire place for exactly what is so "specialized" about an XJ font end? Granted, it is an old school double wishbone suspension, not McPherson strut like most of the rice wagons and FWD cars being sold today, but it sure looks like most any other "double A" suspension. The fact that Jaguar gives geometry settings for the suspension while compressed somewhat from empty does not make the suspension special, only the setup. And a 10 year old car PROBABLY has about the same spring sag as the compression spec. At least my '98 XJR does.
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Last edited by sparkenzap; 01-22-2011 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Clarification / references
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkenzap View Post
The fact that Jaguar gives geometry settings for the suspension while compressed somewhat from empty does not make the suspension special, only the setup. And a 10 year old car PROBABLY has about the same spring sag as the compression spec. At least my '98 XJR does.
Thanks for the reference. It will come in handy for translating experience with upper A arm adjustments to lower A arm adjustments when the alignment equipment arrives.

The loading may be the missing critical element. It is meant to simulate the weight of the driver. That is the load accounting for most miles on a vehicle. Lots of alignment specs in prior years called for this type of dummy load.

If a left hand drive car is aligned perfectly without dummy loading, when a driver gets in the left will drop slightly. This results in more negative camber on the left. The problem is more pronounced on cars designed with larger suspension compliance and softer springs. For example luxury sedans.

If you take a survey of tire wear complaints, you will might find a large pool of people complaining about inside shoulder wear on the front left tire. If you then look at the drivers, you might find that they tend to be larger men.
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Old 02-20-2011, 04:31 AM
 
 
 
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98, 98xjr, bolts, bushings, camber, eccentric, front, fulcrum, jaguar, left, prablems, rear, shims, wheel, xj8



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