Do either the Greensboro dealer or the Indy claim they can definitely fix the issue with an Adaptations clear and reflash or is this a case of 'apply the procedure and see what happens'?

Graham

 

Looks that way. I rephrased my comment.

 

Jon89 - Flow Jaguar has done a lot of work on my XK8. I would take it back any day. Unfortunately, they combine Jaguar and GMC on Saturdays, so I try and avoid them on weekends..

 

Graham,

No guarantees, just "high probability" that this will resolve the issue. But I can be a snarling bulldog and if I shell out $175, I expect results and have no problem grabbing folks by the collar until results are evident. I will demand that the current TCM/adaptations be cleared prior to re-establishing them, and I will also demand the most current firmware version....

Again, does anyone know if Autologic can perform this ZF TSB just as IDS can? If that is true, it may save me time, miles, and money to book the car with the local indy....

 

I was sceptical but after a bit digging found this from Autologic:

Jaguar_example_-Transmission_Adaptation_Drive_Cycle.pdf

It certainly suggests this is equivalent to the Dealer diagnostics.

Graham

 

Graham, you're a wizard. It looks like Autologic is indeed a viable option. I'm waiting to hear back from the local indy on firm confirmation that their Autologic system can indeed properly perform this TSB, and their price for doing so. They've already told me that they're booked solid for this week so any appointment would have to be set up for next week....

Thanks for providing me with yet another potential option. As more information trickles in and we make our final decision where to take the XK8, I'll try to keep this thread updated....

 

I am not a transmission guy but I took your post and copied it this morning to a ZF friend of my and asked his input and this is what I got. I hope it helps!

Hi Gus,
Hope you have been well,

Same old story going back generations of automatic transmissions. if it’s not working change the fluid - if only it was so easy. The fresh fluid had slightly different properties than the old and caused the TCM to readapt. During the adaption process the hard shift was masked by default programming. After the new adaption process was complete the hard shift returned. The transmission controller is developed to provide a specific shift feel over the life of the vehicle, adaptions take place to account for clutch wear. As internal parts start to wear seals may start leaking. The controller assumes the leaks are due to clutch wear and tries to adjust it out.
Ok, all that said what is the next step. Leakage can be anywhere internally, the theory of hydraulics – equal pressure on all internal surfaces. A leak anywhere will cause pressure loss. Complicated by leaks in adjoining circuits that effect shift control. Complicating matters are the lack of pressure ports on the ZF 6HP transmissions. The only port is a converter pressure, from here we have the ability to monitor internal pressure combined with precise test equipment. Not possible for technicians in the field. It brings us back to a routine problem, the mechatronic could be replaced at lower cost than the transmission. Lower but not inexpensive. This may fix the problem or may temporarily fix it. The new mechatronic could be used in an eventual transmission rebuild as long as the transmission is clean. If working with a local shop this is possible. If replacing with a ZF remanufactured transmission the cost of the mechatronic is lost.
Hope this helps and does not generate more confusion.

 

Gus,

Thanks for the additional input. Your ZF friend seems to be suggesting that either the Mechatronic unit needs to be rebuilt or better yet, the entire ZF unit needs to be rebuilt. Seems to me like a pretty drastic conclusion to reach without doing some fairly intense diagnostics first. And how would he explain that some owners have been able to restore proper ZF shift points for years by having the Adaptations Drive Cycle cleared and reset via IDS?

I would like to have a better understanding of how he draws his conclusions. As they say, knowledge is power....

 

You need to know that this is an email repair and not hands on. I should also mention that he has been with ZF for many a year and is a regional service manager and he has been spot on for many a problem I have come across. Often the answer is not what you want to hear but it is spot on!

 

Gus,

Is there any chance he'd know the 'life of the vehicle' mileage Jaguar will undoubtedly have agreed with ZF for warranty purposes when they signed up to use the ZF 6HP26 ? A ballpark figure of 100K, 200K.....etc would give us all an idea of whether we're in for a repeat of the previous generation sealed-for-life transmissions issues.

Between the earlier quick fix of adding ZF Lifeguard Fluid and now the reflash, my alarm bells are starting to ring.

Graham

 

I will ask.

 

Graham,

Here's what ZF Tech Support in Chicago told me during a telephone conversation in March 2010:

"For vehicles driven under 'normal operating conditions' (defined as a 50/50 mix of highway/city driving, no street racing or track use, no towing, and no gravel or dirt roads), owners should consider a fluid drain-and-fill at 100,000 miles.

For vehicles that do not meet the conditions above, owners should consider a fluid drain-and-fill at 80,000 miles."

There was no mention of changing the pan/filter or changing the electrical connector sleeve.

When my wife began complaining to me about rough shifts in her XK8 a little more than a month ago, I dug out my notes from that March 2010 telephone conversation and called ZF Tech Support again. The toll-free phone number I had for them had been disconnected. I tried to find them through the ZF website. No luck. I surmised that corporate reorgs along with our prolonged economic downturn had probably caused the end of any consumer tech support from ZF at some point after my March 2010 conversation with them....


Update on my wife's XK8 since yesterday:

Upon returning home from work in the evening, I was astonished that she reported completely normal ZF behavior during the 75 or so miles she drove during the course of her workday. What was different since the last time she had driven her car on Saturday afternoon? I had topped up all six battery cells with water on Sunday evening, something I routinely do to all three of our vehicles throughout the year (especially during our hot summer months). That set me to thinking about how susceptible these Jaguars are to marginal batteries - we all know how weak or failing batteries create all sorts of strange issues, including throwing spurious warning messages on the dash. Then I remembered reading in the S-Type forum about a couple of owners who had paid thousands of dollars for their ZFs to be rebuilt and still suffered from the same transmission issues after the rebuild took place. Only then did they discover that their transmissions were acting up due to their batteries failing. Talk about the ultimate despair and regret....

So is our specific problem actually being caused by our battery, which I purchased and installed in late September 2012? I don't think so, but there's always that possibility. Gus' ZF friend apparently believes we need either a Mechatronics rebuild or a ZF rebuild. A transmission repair shop in Charlotte believes we need a valve body rebuild. Others have said the problem is due to failing shift solenoids. Still others have said, no, it's the torque converter....

So what should we do? Who is right, who is wrong, and how do we ultimately find out?

After waking up at 3:00 am today with all of this information spinning around in my head, I still believe that the most prudent next step is to try the TCM clearing / firmware upgrade / adaptations drive cycle via IDS TSB as specified by Jaguar, and I'm leaning towards the Greensboro dealership vs. the local indy because while the indy can do it with their Autologic system, they admit that they have never done it before. I don't want to be a guinea pig for the indy, and the Greensboro dealership tells me they do 4 to 6 of these every month and have experienced "good success"....

Anybody else want to throw their two cents in and try to talk me out of it?

 

These transmissions also perform adaptation to prevailing conditions over time as you drive.

I say wait a bit and see if the problem
resolves itself. If not then your plan to reset adaptations and reflash makes sense to me.

 

Steve,

Please explain your Permatex RTV silicone comment. Were you making a joke that went over my head?

 

Fat fingers on my iPhone....sorry...I thought I caught it within 2 minutes

 

Jon,

I'm hanging on every word in this thread because of the suspicion this is something that's likely to affect many of us ZF6HP 26 vehicle owners eventually.

In your place, I'd go for the TCM clearing / firmware upgrade / adaptations drive cycle at the Greensboro dealership. Their experience and success rate being the clincher.

I know availability of used parts / rebuild costs can be very different on opposite sides of the Atlantic but, as a way forward, I go this far and no further with any of the suggested component replacements until something actually breaks.

Graham

 

Graham,

I hear you loud and clear, my friend. I do not want to bust open that XK8 transmission unless I absolutely have to....

I have decided that we have a new rule in our house: NO MORE ZF TRANSMISSIONS!!

And no, I haven't told my wife yet....

 

I'm with Steve and Graham, do the adaption clear and reflash at the dealer and then asses from there. (I assume they will be able to identify any tranny codes also)

However if it is behaving for now, why not wait a couple of weeks and see what happens?

 

Norri,

I will check with my wife upon her return home this evening. And tomorrow evening as well. If her XK8's ZF continues to mind its manners, I will cancel my Thursday morning appointment with the Greensboro dealership and explain the reason why. Then if the ZF decides to reprise its rough shift woes, I always have the option of rescheduling my appointment. I would expect the Greensboro dealership to understand and cooperate....

The deciding factor may come down to whenever her next solo trip to and from Tampa winds up being. She usually goes in August. We'll see....

So we're in 'One Day At A Time' mode right now. Stay tuned, folks....

 

Update:

Mostly smooth shifts yesterday with a couple of hiccups in stop-and-go traffic. About 50 miles of driving. We'll see how her ZF performs today, then make a decision on whether to keep tomorrow morning's appointment at the Greensboro dealership....