F-Type ( X152 ) 2014 - Onwards

Electronic Valves Coming To Jaguar?

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Old Aug 12, 2018 | 04:33 PM
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Default Electronic Valves Coming To Jaguar?

Apparently much of the testing for this technology has been going on with Jaguar engines, however it also says Asia will likely get the first implementation of this tech. But fascinating technology, particularly fascinated that you can go from 4 stroke to 2 stroke to 12 stroke (economy rotating the dead cylinders to prevent problems). https://newatlas.com/camcon-digital-...0possibilities

Oh a decent pop in performance and efficiency as well.
 
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Old Aug 12, 2018 | 06:31 PM
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Screw the infotainment system and all the driver assist crap, BUT GIVE ME THIS!!
Who said ICEs were dead? This will take them to a whole 'nother level.
 

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Old Aug 12, 2018 | 07:30 PM
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The 12-stroke mode is pretty interesting. Once you mechanically decouple the valves from the crankshaft you can do things like fire on every third crankshaft rotation. I'd be interested in how various failure modes are handled, i.e. can it be made "non-interference" on failure of one of the cam motors?
 
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Old Aug 12, 2018 | 07:47 PM
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Sounds good but I doubt it will appear in any affordable production car until many years after I am pushing up daisies.
And that's if the world doesn't go completely insane and ban the ICE altogether in the meantime.
 
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Old Aug 12, 2018 | 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by lizzardo
. I'd be interested in how various failure modes are handled, i.e. can it be made "non-interference" on failure of one of the cam motors?
First thing that I thought of too - otherwise, one electrical hiccup and you bend a valve, or worse...
 
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chawumba
First thing that I thought of too - otherwise, one electrical hiccup and you bend a valve, or worse...
Pneumatically actuated valve, so even if there is interference in the event of a mis-deployment, it will be a soft strike without catastrophic failure.

More:

 
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Pneumatically actuated
As a classic Mercedes collector, these words put fear into my heart. You have no idea how problematic every single implementation, no matter what its function, up to date. If it is pneumatic, it means it leaks in a dry climate, doesn't work well in high humidity environment, has constant issues with a pump...

I hope they reconsider and go with an electric solution. I will risk interference hit over dealing with pneumatic system.
 
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Screw the infotainment system and all the driver assist crap, BUT GIVE ME THIS!!
Who said ICEs were dead? This will take them to a whole 'nother level.
exactly, all sorts of things that could come of this. compression management, valve timing on the fly, true cylinder shut down, and of course efficiency...iv asked for years why it has taken this long to get to a "digital" valve.

Credit: Death1ord posted a great read about this on FB earlier today.
 

Last edited by Itismejoshy; Aug 13, 2018 at 11:43 AM.
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Screw the infotainment system and all the driver assist crap, BUT GIVE ME THIS!!
Who said ICEs were dead? This will take them to a whole 'nother level.
Fun! Looks like its a great time to become a calibration engineer for these products.
 
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SinF
As a classic Mercedes collector, these words put fear into my heart. You have no idea how problematic every single implementation, no matter what its function, up to date. If it is pneumatic, it means it leaks in a dry climate, doesn't work well in high humidity environment, has constant issues with a pump...

I hope they reconsider and go with an electric solution. I will risk interference hit over dealing with pneumatic system.
My understanding is that more than one company worling on this using different technology.

Freevalve is

Koenigsegg's

elecro controlled pneumatic actuation.s

Camcon system uses electronic control of electric motor driven desmodromic individual cam per valve.

 
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Old Aug 13, 2018 | 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul_59
My understanding is that more than one company worling on this using different technology.

Freevalve isKoenigsegg's

elecro controlled pneumatic actuation.s

Camcon system uses electronic control of electric motor driven desmodromic individual cam per valve.
What is unclear to me is whether the Camcon system offers variable lift like the Koenigsegg. Having the ability to instantaneously determine duration, time of initial lift, total lift and number of lifts per stroke is HUGE. The same engine could run a diesel cycle, an Otto cycle, 2-stroke cycle, Atkinson cycle or Miller cycle depending on the duty of and demand on the engine at any given time. This could be more efficient and cleaner than running fossil fuel derived electricity through power transmission lines into and back out of a battery. Think about it.: a variable compression engine would be possible. It could also run on multiple fuels with the switch of a button.
(I won't be able to sleep tonight)
 

Last edited by Unhingd; Aug 13, 2018 at 10:10 PM.
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 03:24 PM
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Guys, as a retired patent examiner I can say : as often before, whats presented as new, already exists somewhere else... As it does in this case..
But the original works with 'batteries' pumped up by a camshaft. Only the timing is done by the ECU...

This latest development replaces the ' cams/batteries' with a single central pump.. .. not inventive to my opinion, but hey : I'm retired..

The principle was patented by FIAT in 2002, as the Multiair system..

This was licensed to a German company who fine tuned the system and named it
[ brush up your Spanish.. ].

..and made the Ingenium engines work for JLR, like in my P300 ...

.. Multiair is fitted in my 2011 Alfa Romeo Centenario 1.4T....

SO NOTHING TO SHOUT ABOUT...
 
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_NL
Guys, as a retired patent examiner I can say : as often before, whats presented as new, already exists somewhere else... As it does in this case..
But the original works with 'batteries' pumped up by a camshaft. Only the timing is done by the ECU...

This latest development replaces the ' cams/batteries' with a single central pump.. .. not inventive to my opinion, but hey : I'm retired..

The principle was patented by FIAT in 2002, as the Multiair system..

This was licensed to a German company who fine tuned the system and named it Uniair [ brush up your Spanish.. ].

..and made the Ingenium engines work for JLR, like in my P300 ...

.. Multiair is fitted in my 2011 Alfa Romeo Centenario 1.4T....

SO NOTHING TO SHOUT ABOUT...
The fact that I now know about this development is something to shout about. It’s another option for modding when I’m ready to rebuild the engine.
 
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
The fact that I now know about this development is something to shout about. It’s another option for modding when I’m ready to rebuild the engine.
I don't think its a valid option to put this as a 'mod' on an engine rebuild. Its easier and cheaper to buy a car with this system.. .. like a P300..
 
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_NL
I don't think its a valid option to put this as a 'mod' on an engine rebuild. Its easier and cheaper to buy a car with this system.. .. like a P300..
Yes, but my modding budget ($30k) is larger than my spousally imposed new car budget ($0).
 

Last edited by Unhingd; Aug 15, 2018 at 04:32 PM.
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Unhingd
Yes, but my modding budget ($30k) is larger than my spousally imposed new car budget ($0).
Hmmmm.. .. there is NO budget for my wife's car [ she prefers cycling..] , there only is the kids' car, she uses as it rains too much..
Then we have the 'old lady' , the family car , LR3 TdV6 , and my P300...

Next car is a D5 or F-Pace V6 diesel... ... waiting for the lottery numbers to fall in line..
 
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Old Aug 15, 2018 | 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan_NL
... waiting for the lottery numbers to fall in line..
Now there’s a strategy.
 
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