CarFax or Carvana, (doesn't matter) advised me recently that my 2017 Premium V6 with manual went up $2k. "Book" is what it is, I will continue to insure it through Hagerty for $48K

 

I look at Cars and Bids, and BAT a lot , and the Jags never get a good price, imho. My perfect 2018 SVR with 9,800 miles got a Carmax offer of $48,500 yesterday! No way I would sell it for that! Plus what would I buy?

 

Yeah trying not to get my hopes up too much - we all think these things are undervalued, but the reality is we are a small number of enthusiasts and most people in the market for a sports car know nothing about them other than they are a Jaguar and Jaguars are unreliable pieces of garbage. Hard to say if prices are actually going up on average for the cars - the smaller increases in book value could just be spring/summer markets (where many cars increase). We will see, I for one am planning on keeping mine for a while (if for no other reason I paid a lot more for it than it's worth now ).

 

+1 on F-Types not going for good prices on BAT. If you are a potential buyer that would be a good place to look.

 

Just a few examples (I've seen a bunch of these as I was following bids for like the past year). It seems to vary, but I think you could get a good price if it's in perfect shape!

 

High volume cars will never offer dramatic returns, even if they marginally appreciate after hitting their depreciation floor.

 

I mean, I guess an understanding of the definition of “high volume” is required here.

Is approx 87000 F-Types over an 11 year production run high volume? In practical terms I tend to think that this is not high production, and a good majority of them are probably no longer in the road (crashes, whatever, etc.). But I’m mostly basing my thoughts on the fact that I rarely, if ever, see these things out in the road relative to other options.

For the V8 Vantage just under 22000 were produced between 2005 and 2017. It’s lower production certainly hasn’t helped it greatly for values :-)

In all seriousness though, yeah, there’s no doubt what you are saying is true…Higher numbers will probably have adverse effects on values on the general. When I think of high production high performance vehicles though, I personally more think of cars like the Corvette C5/C6/C7/C8. To me they are the poster child for high volume.

 

8000 cars a year is CERTAINLY high volume. Low volume is limited run or 300-400 units a year.

Ftype - however much we all adore it - was always an affordable, attainable sub-$100k car made in high volume. It is not going to turn into the next Detomaso in terms of value. Maybe in 50 years, but I won't be around.

 

Well, I hear ya, but I’m approaching this from the standpoint of regular reasonably well heeled people that can only afford more normal expensive-ish summer sports cars (i.e.: People who can afford hundreds of thousands in the purchase price of a car, but not necessarily millions for a purchase price). Someone who is financially in a position to purchase a car out of only 400 produced is typically living on another plane of existence than most of us car enthusiasts, and we’re likely talking millions to purchase in a lot of those cases.

There are a lot more well heeled folks who can afford hundreds of thousands than there are really rich folks who can purchase for millions, and this will always be the case (reality). So, I tend to think that there will be a large-ish pool of these more regular folks with money that might, in the future, be looking for unique, but more approachable, cars (F-types, Vantages, or whatever else you might want to talk about) that are a blast from the past, more conventional (i.e.: v8, not EV), etc…People who would love to have that 4 million Ferrari, but that have to get their blast from the past jollies off in a more approachable realistic way…You can only purchase in a space that is approachable for you…

Hopefully the sentiment of what I’m trying to get across here is making some sense? Just because cars are not 1 of 400, and/or valued at millions, doesn’t necessarily mean they can’t go up significantly in value over time due to changing circumstances (i.e.: Changes in tech that people are less interested in for newer cars, growing scarcity over time, etc.) and have an audience that is interested in purchasing them.

My opinion only of course.

Cheers

 

Both the F-Type and the Vantage depreciate around the same rate. The people that's going to benefit with the values going up the most are the ones that bought their cars after they depreciated 80-90% its value. When your getting an F-Type S in the 20k-30k or a F-Type base V6 under 18k you can practically drive these cars the next 2-5 years for practically free and resell and either break even but more than likely make a profit. This applies to lots of cars like you can get 05-10 Bentley GT and GTC Convertibles, Aston Martin DB9, and Vantage within the 20-30k range these cars already loss 80-90% of its value. So the key is getting these cars when they they near or bottomed out on the depreciation that way you can benefit in the appreciation when it comes to resell.

 

Oh for sure, for some people that works. Others don't care buying new, as it is financially working for them, achieving the particular goals of the purchase they set out for themselves, etc...It really is an individual choice, but you are not wrong in SOME respects...

For others it is not a choice at all, because they couldn't buy a new one even if they wanted to...Which is completely fine, but that doesn't make the choice of someone else who can (and wants to) wrong. There is a car for everyone, some new and some used. These days there is lots of money to "lose" on these sorts of depreciating assets. How much of a loss that is depends a lot on what your goals are, and how you look at it though. It really depends on one's attitude and wallet size.

Cheers man

 

I have a build-to-order 2022 F-Type P450 RWD, which I continue to own in the past four years. I paid $78 K (MSRP) during covid car shortage, and the car, with only 10,600 miles on the odometer, is worth anywhere between $58~$63K in today's realistic retail price in California, as the first-owner & no-accident car.

I'd say that's a pretty darn good, lowish depreciation for a Jaguar, especially compared to the R. The problem with R is that most enthusiasts know that the R is mostly a software tune over the P450, so they do not assign much premium to the R. Therefore, the initial $30~40K price difference between the P450 and the R gets compressed to $10K or so in the second-hand market.

Furthermore, a very old / early F-Type from 2014-ish era with a V8 and low miles fetches somewhere in the $45K in the used car market today. I don't see the facelifted F-Type P450 going lower than a 11-year-older F-Type V8 with no warranty left, so mine is probably close to a full initial depreciation, with possible appreciation in the next 5~10 years. The UK market is already looking up for the P450s this year, btw, which may be a leading indicator for the US market.

Any thoughts?

 

I also remember back in 2009, when the facelifted first-generation used Acura NSX was selling for $45K and largely ignored by the enthusiast community. Most people back then thought that Acura was simply pumping an old 90s car with no performance improvement and "uglier" non-popup headlights during `02-`05 model year.

Guess what? That facelifted `02-`05 model year NSX is now routinely selling for $160K~$250K in the used car market. It was considered to be an outdated car with an uglier headlight when they were new, and demand was pretty low.

In contrast, we now live in a world where there will be no new supercharged V8 sports cars, for good. The V8 F-Type may not appreciate as much as the NSX, but I think it will appreciate more than people think is possible currently. Of course, cars of this caliber are for fun driving, and are not investments, in any case.

 

The logic flaw here, estimating the 8000 per year (average) production - there are not 8000 per year enthusiasts that have any idea about tunes etc and making a lower model P450 into the same power level as an R. Most people have no idea, and out of the crowd that does know, many of them are squarely in the "I will never mod my car" group. This forum of enthusiasts represents a very small percentage of total owners - we all agree on how much we love these cars, and how undervalued they are, but the majority of the world doesn't agree unfortunately. Which is why our cars are not pricing like a Porsche - Porsche has won hands down in the branding department (just look how well their suvs are selling).

 

Well, you don't have to sell me on the Porsche branding, as my other sports car is a 992.1 Carrera T, which was also build-to-order. While I like my 992.1, it is not that much better of a sports car than F-Type P450. My Carrera T has not depreciated at all, and probably at a higher retail price point in the second-hand market than what I paid for (i.e., MSRP in 2024).

Unfortunately, the "logic flaw" is actually in your own comment. You seem to discount the fact that (1) P450 depreciates far less than the R, which is just pure numbers in the second-hand market; (2) Somehow, you think that Porsche has some magic in preventing depreciation. Cayenne and Macan depreciate far more severely than the F-Type in this discussion. The Porsche badge does not save Cayenne, Macan, Panamera, and Taycan in the used car market. They depreciate nearly as severely as Mercedes, BMWs, and any JLR products.

The 911 happens to be an exception to Porsche's otherwise atrocious depreciation in modern times.

 

Sounds like I offended to you, not intended - the logic flaw I was referencing was the "common" one I often see, my miscommunication. Depreciation and branding are not directly correlated, but branding is certainly a big part of why your 911 doesn't depreciate. Same goes for why our F-Types do not hold their value - they just do not have that special cachet to the general population (even though we think they are unique and special cars). Most people do not even know what they are - thr majority my interactions with people are not "nice Jag", but rather "what is that?".

 

You still could not explain why P450 depreciates significantly less than the R, which was my original point, and your explanation so far does not address that. To the contrary, the less depreciation of P450, both in percentage and absolute terms compared to the R, proves that the second-hand consumers are indeed informed enthusiasts who mostly know what JLR did with the AJ133 engine between the two trims.

If the used sports car enthusiasts THOUGHT the R was worth substantially more than P450, then the initial price difference would have been largely maintained, even as they depreciate over the years. Therefore, your reply above is logically flawed.

 

Ok, I respectfully understand our opinions differ, and I am certainly not in invested in changing your mind have a good one

 

My guess is the S 6MT will appreciate decently over the next decade or so if any Fs do. The MT makes it a bit rare. not SVR, but not run of the mill.

For what it is worth, I bought an 88 BMW E30 cabriolet 5 MT in 98, drove it 20 years, and sold it for more than I paid for it. Even givien inflation is was great ROI. I’d expect my S to deliver similar value, when my kids sell it after I’m gone of course.

 

Yep - if our cars somehow do become collectible, I think the MT cars could go for more than the SVRs, pretty rare.