I am trying gather input on a scenario I find myself in; even looking for a little bit of advice.Months of shopping for a 2017 CPO, and to fit this tale into only car forum I belong to, let’s say model = Black F-Type SVR.


Lease terms are good; it’s 1700 miles away; CPO warranty thru the entire lease term; I add affordable transport as a condition of offer; I know some local dealers are having trouble with their state rules due to COVID; sale price $71K; less than 40K miles; cost me $100/month to insure it; cost me $140/month to garage it.


Seal the deal with an affordable lease payment (approx 24 months, MF was ~really~ good). Keep in mind it’s a CPO, “luxury brand” car.


Sign the deal by mobile notary; 1 week later car ships, $1500 for enclosed (small deposit then over $1000 COD). I asked the dealer 3 times for the Bill of Lading so when car arrives, if it’s damaged, I know who to blame, pre or post shipping - *no response*. I already told myself if I find out it is damaged before it arrives, I will refuse it; not answer the door, tell the shipping company take it back, what have you.



Car arrives, I’m a little excited, but apprehensive. I immediately asked the driver to see the bill of lading. Two man team: the driver hems and haws and either does, or pretends to, lock himself out of the cab of the rig. The car comes down off of the upper level of the trailer. It gets driven into my driveway. I have two hand towels ready to wipe off any dust or dirt so I can check for paint/exterior damage.



He shows me a clipboard with the bill of lading on it – I will attach a cropped picture of it (there is a legend). A walk around of the car shows each of those lines points to an actual flaw in the exterior, not something the transport company pulled out of thin air. I am fairly sure that some of the scratches (possibly 2) and/or one “large patch with multiple chips in the paint close to each other” on the hood, would be charges on any lease return. Being a black car, all chips in the paint show as a white spot on the vehicle. I need to look closer at the spot on the car at center windshield.



Thoughts?

 

Sounds like a used rental car being rented again...

 

Was I naive to think a CPO wouldn't be scratched/dinged to high heaven? Ideally I would have liked to view it first and not relying on dealer description; Dealer staffing and cars in stock prevented that. This was their description of CPO to the bank and myself.

 

I didn’t think you could lease a used car?

 

You can lease anything, yes, definitely a used car although I don’t think that’s the OP’s intended take away. I think expecting perfection from anything used is naive; however, I have sold many cars and people are amazed at the condition. I also restore and refinish acoustic drums as a hobby/small business and if I can’t make something perfect, I may not take on the project and certainly would not omit details in the description. In summary, regardless of naïveté or expectation, that description is pretty clear but it doesn’t reconcile with the bill you showed, CPO doesn’t equate to perfection - I looked at a local CPO car and how it passed the 150 point inspection, I have no idea but it was not at all a good representation of the brand - torn and worn carpets and mats, deep scratch in quarter glass, all rims damaged, black paint with deep gouges (I see to professionally restore cars and this stuff scared me). Not to mention the car was filthy everywhere. Again, CPO or not, the description in the text appears to be for a different automobile, I bought mine sight unseen and got a good enough deal that it was worth taking a flyer on it - turns out, the car was better than expected and about as close to new as a used car gets, I have flown out to buy at least a dozen cars and only used the return flight once. I have also had several delivered and all matched the descriptions and photos. Of course, anyone not willing to demonstrate the condition with way its photos and details should be avoided. I have only dealt with people willing to provide lots of information and photos. You can tell a “car guy” from someone who just uses a car as transportation. One clue is that they call their garage a garage and not a car sanctuary. Best of luck returning it; hopefully you have adequate recourse.

 

You can if it is manufacturer “certified”, hence the description the dealer had to confirm to the bank. Most of the leases are through the “in house” finance company, ie Toyota Financial, but mine was thru a large national brand bank (I know of only one that does this).

There are also “age” restrictions; in my case I could lease a 2015 or newer but not a 2014.

 

CPO is really more around the car being "mechanically sound". So you aren't really guaranteed dent or paint problem free. However, if the dealer claimed no issues but the transport company did, then there is definitely a discrepancy. Most long distance deals I've seen have a 30-day or 4 week return policy. I doubt you'll get the seller/dealer to do anything about the paint condition so you need to decide if you want to have a local detail shop work their magic or you work on returning the car.

 

Pics would be very useful, but based on the preshipment inspection report, this car was treated badly. Perhaps that’s how all leased cars are treated. If you find the defects acceptable given the price paid, accept delivery. If not, return the car as having been misrepresented. The car is clearly not “like new”.

 

I think important question that you need addressed in writing if you choose to keep the car - are you responsible for any of this damage on lease return? Potentially there are thousands dollars worth of damage to the paint. Or maybe shipper overreacted in CYB.

Start by doing 4K video of walk around the car in a daylight. Before you move the car. I suspect seller will try to claim you caused this damage.

 

My experience with lease return is they try to charge you for every little thing, but they are not required to actually repair what they bill you for. I did a deal for a new car with the dealer repairing all the little things the lease return inspection showed for $400. Just using the report they the leasing company billed me $1200!. Took dealer 2 months to straiten out.

 

The wear and tear has to be 'excessive' for a charge on lease return; I know that is vague but it usually covers larger scratches, anything that would be bigger than a half dollar (approx, I guess 1.5-2 inches). I watched a few videos on youtube about lease returns (some for BMWs) and I felt comfortable I could 'comply'. If you look at all the scratches/dings/chips on the bill of lading, I am ~estimating~ (as a lay person) there are 3 spots that exceed normal wear and tear.

I'll try and capture pics of the hood sometime today, maybe that will add context.

Also, I took it to a body shop this morning and I got a surprising estimate (lower than my expectation) to repaint the entire hood and buff out some of the rubs: $350

 

In today's market, I'd ask / demand a $ adjustment, not just for the damage, but also for your time / aggravation / and disappointment.

 

There was a previous comment about pictures; I wasn’t sure if poster wanted to know if I saw pictures of the car First or pictures of the flaws would help them provide input. The pictures I saw of the car on the website didn’t detail any flaws.

It’s hard to photograph painted surfaces, there is a lot of reflection, and I marked out the image of me taking the photo; I have a winch in my “car sanctuary” rafters, you can see the detail in the reflection, etc

Each white spot is a “chip” in the paint, this is one side of the hood, the other side is equally chipped.

The transport driver called it “serious road rash”.

 

Oh my, that's quite bad. They definitely misrepresented that car's condition.

 

I'd agree, that Porsche badge is serious road rash ;-)

 

The dealer finally said they’d make it right but it’s not final yet. I think I will call the bank and find out if I need to repaint an entire body panel by a professional autobody shop if that would constitute “excessive wear and tear” – from what I understand at lease end, they measure the thickness of the paint to try to detect repair spots. I do not know how they would detect that if it was repainted correctly.Its a tight squeeze, the problem is, as they sit right now, I need to pull “Day” out before I can pull “Night” out of the “sanctuary” (I am an old dog, I learned a new trick- ignore the garden tools, bikes and other junk). Having that problem, however, “is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick”.

 

Post up what the dealer says they will do. That is definitely not "like new". Just curious, did you have the dealer do a close walk-around video of the car?

 

JC 83814, Hopefully you'll resolve this to your satisfaction, and learn to love the F type, as we do. FWIW, I learned to reverse my car into the garage to make ingress / egress easier. It took practice but the camera helps, along with patience and the reward of listening to the exhaust a bit longer!

 

And the moral of this tale - never buy a car sight unseen !

 

I have purchased at least 15 cars sight unseen without issue. No doubt, there is always a risk, but there is also a risk that the car you see on the lot that’s looks aesthetically perfect has frame damage, a bad differential, or has been beat to death mechanically on a track. The moral is to do due diligence and hope for the best. Everybody’s perception of “good”, “perfect” and “mint” is different - no exception for dealers. No doubt that this case seems egregious, but I have had numerous cars described with “normal wear and tear” and they have looked close to flawless (and I was in numerous areas of the auto industry for 14 years; I am rather particular and good at finding defects) - just like the CPO description, a lot of sellers use a generic description of preowned that undersells the condition. Buying a car online or in person is like any other item - it’s a craps shoot.