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Under the heading "No Replacement For Displacement".
I swapped out the Morel MM2's for Morel MM3's based on 1) JagBass said they were great and would fit, just, and B) I had a conversation with a guy that had competed in IASCA and had been published in Car Stereo Review back in the day. He said my little 2" domes might sound fine but could not play with "impact" when pushed.
I also took out all the EQ I had put in the DSP. I figured maybe Meridian might have gotten that part OK. Played with input levels and crossover points. Went for a drive to tank up on Premium.
Rearranging the deck chairs. I had the polarity on the input from the right side mid out of phase with the left side. Indicated by having a null on the input (summed) screen on the DSP. I had compensated by having the output at the amp swapped back but it bugged me.
I pulled it all apart and moved the power distribution block to the lower level, rearranged the upper level supports, made a bigger upper level amp rack and reinstalled everything with better access to the DSP. I could have just flipped the the input in the DSP software but would have kept me up at night. I swapped the input into the LGD and swapped the output at the amp. Checked the DSP and ran SpeakerPop. Everything is happy. Played with input levels, crossovers and AccuBASS level. I pushed the high pass on the GB60's to 100 and the low pass on the GB12D4 to 70. Trying to get more midbass punch.
Planning to make some big changes though.
Going to swap Morel MW9's for the GB60's. But they're going to need double the power so, going to swap out the MSix and the DM-810 for an Audison AF M8.14. I'll also swap the PDX M12 for an AF M1D. Three things: I can eliminate one component, I can bridge the Forza's channels giving 280 watts and I can stack them with the Prima tower kit which should look very tidy.
OK, four things. The DM-810 and the GB 60's are going in the XF.
Just to catch up, one of the AudioFrog GB60's stopped playing a couple weeks ago. Turns out the Jag's doors leak like crazy and what got through from the car wash corroded the tiny hex screw terminals. I swapped in an Audible Physics AR6K I had laying around, ordered a set of Morel MW9's and texted JagBass to check his midbass door drivers. He sent back a picture of his MW9's looking a bit discolored from water and then a video of water cascading past the driver opening while he held a hose to the outside if the window. We quickly devised a solution using NVX silicone baffles that not only guided water around the driver but also sealed the driver to the door and the front sound wave to the door card. They needed a small modification to not get caught up in the window lift hardware. Strongly recommend these be used in all aftermarket driver installations. https://nvx.com/collections/speaker-baffles
I didn't change the tune on the DSP. The sound is a bit punchier, no replacement for displacement strikes again. There is a beta update for the AudioControl Smart DSP APP and firmware update on the DSP. I did it last week and the update went well.
Was having a conversation with JagBass about doing a front sub in the passenger footwell. I decided there wasn't enough area to fit a .5 Cu Ft enclosure needed to run the new Morel PowerSlim shallow sub. Too bad, they look really sexy.
Anyway, my shower thought for the day was heck, I still have the AudioFrog GS8ND2's in the kidney shaking holes. Might as well take another stab at making them work. So I measured for amp room on my amp rack and the AudioFrog 4 channel fits perfectly. Bridged it's 300 watts into 4 ohms which is exactly what the GS8's want.
The grounding plug however, not so happy with three 4 gauge lugs for the three amps so I did a 4 gauge jumper to a Kicker grounding block I had laying around.
Got out the laptop and played with the DSP. Front door 8's are now playing down to 100hz. "Rear fill" 8's are playing 50hz-100hz. And the 12" sub in the way back is doing 20hz-50hz. Had to turn the gains on the rear fill down 3db. System blends very well. Sounds fuller at lower volume. Overall I'd have to say worth the effort.
I put a bunch of SoundSkins on the two concave baffles surround the rear fill 8's. Everything back there rattles like crazy if I turn up the volume to club level. Going to have to figure out how to take the seatbelt anchors off so I can get the top trim cover out and on a work bench.
I added an Infinity Basslink Mini in my front footwell because space is so limited in the convertible and the trunk is not an option. Paired with my AP8's in the rear panel I feel I have the low end solved. I did use the sealing method detailed by @mikelr to minimize resonating areas. If you look at his install he creates a wall with butyl mat and covers everything including around the seatbelt retractor/anchors:
I guess this is something between a ported vs infinite baffle enclosure because there is no way to completely seal the rear area with butyl mat specifically because of the seatbelt.
@Jag Bass any thoughts about maximizing the potential of that rear space for low end?
@Jag Bass any thoughts about maximizing the potential of that rear space for low end?
Too much stuff going on around the bulkhead area to cause rattles when you start upping the power. I don't think I would try anything other than maybe sealed enclosure for those spaces behind the panels with a ton of time wrapping rattle sources with Tessa tape. Not too sure what volume you could get but I believe that someone did some fiberglass enclosures in those spaces a few years back, I think there are some pics in the fourm. I think that the Audio Frog GS8ND4 is happy in .25 cu ft. Per driver which might be achievable in those cubbys. Here is the freq response sealed.
Not sure but with yours being a convertible maybe possible to open the back of the enclosure up removing the rubber seal at the back of the hole and venting into the convert compartment since it can be isolated from the cabin. Here is the GS8ND4 driver running IB which will go a bit lower.
Last edited by Jag Bass; Dec 13, 2024 at 12:10 PM.
Removed all the trim panels again. Seatbelt anchors weren't a big deal, T47. Passenger anchor had an electrical connection. Assumed it was SRS related so I disconnected the battery before unplugging the anchor. Took all the trim panels to the workbench. Went back to the car and started tapping on everything. Anything that made noise got a CLD tile or some SoundShield or some butyl tape. I even put a CLD tile on the disk drive's case. Then I covered all the inside surfaces of the trim panels with SoundShield. I also popped off all the trim clips and wrapped their posts with butyl tape, reinstalled them. Popped everything back together and I can say that nothing back there rattles more than any other part of the car now.
Fired up the laptop again and reduce both pairs of 8's gains down to -6db from -3db. Tweets and mids are at 0db. Sub has been at -6db. Time aligned the rear fill 8's to the drivers seat.
As an experiment in preparation for having another guy tune my system I purchased a HEC BT HD module and installed it in my P Six DSP Ultimate. Listening to the system perfectly flat without the Jaguar's factory tune laid over, there was very little bass. So I can say without a doubt, the factory door mid bass channel has a ton of bass built in. I also saved a tune where I removed all of my time alignment values that I have laid over the factory tune. Made me quickly realize why the factory tune was so bad. The sound stage on the factory tune is awful.
@Robtrt8 very nice selection of tunes to exercise midbass! That was a lot of work for you but sounds like it paid off.
Do you think Jaguar even bothered to do time alignment at the factory? Or check phase?
Did you use a tape measure or the Helix ATM?
Playing from the HEC BT module changes everything and can sound very "flat" and require another full tune to get it to sound right, especially those door woofers.
I am finding the Harman curve just doesn't sound right in my space. What are some curves you are all using? @Jag Bass@Gasman2?
I am looking for a biphasic curve that emphasizes bass, suppresses a lot of the midrange but with a little boost at the high end. Going to try the Jazzi curve next.
In full disclosure, I do not YET own a mic other than an iMM-6 I run with FFT on my iPad.
I have not adjusted any EQ values in the Helix so I'm effectively listening to the existing EQ values baked into the Jag system.
I have my own crossover points but I'm effectively listening to the existing channel ranges.
I did replace drivers with better (to my tastes) sonic qualities.
I did effectively replace the Jag amp's power and channels used with 3X more power and at least 5 less active channels.
I have my own measured time alignment values in the Helix. Having listened to the Jag tune with no additional T/A values compared to my tune with physical T/A values I can say that is the greatest difference. I think they probably tuned it to sound good in Surround for two seats which I detest.
So I finally got Chris to spend an afternoon with me in my car. He is the Helix, Morel and AudioFrog dealer I used to work for. He's been to MSC/Helix training a couple times but getting him to share info is like pulling teeth. Anyway,
First thing we did was hook up an interface to the "J" output to see what the Helix DSP saw coming in from the Jag amp. Played corelated pink noise from iPhone to Jag via BT. Right away Chris noticed the mid was going to 500 and then dropping like a stone. So I changed my crossover points between the MM3's and the MW9's to 500.
He also noticed the mid channels are about 10db quieter than the other channels. I already knew this but it was nice to get it confirmed.
Then we played with his mic and TuneEQ. This is the result:
He then ran the auto T/A which changed everything. Stage grew twice as wide.
The tone is very pleasing. The spike at 160 hertz is not something I had seen before. EQ pulled it down hard. Crossing the mid and midbass at 500 seems to have taken care of that spike.
He left the tweeters at 0 gain, the mids at 0 gain, the midbass and 0 gain, the rear fill down 6 db and the sub down 6 db. When played reasonably loud it sounded like the car would rattle itself to pieces. But he was done so I thanked him and took my car home.
Today I sat in the car playing with individual speaker gains and put the left tweeter at -2 db, both mids at +2 db, left the midbass at 0, pulled the rear fill bass down -12db and the subwoofer down -12db.
I also got my shiny new MiniDSP UMMIK-1 from Deer Creek Audio in the mail.
