I commute twice per week about an hour each way with a buddy. I drive my F-Type on one of those days, and he drives his Tesla 3 (starting price $30k) on the other.

I have to say I don’t have a problem with either car. He traded in his ICE SUV for the Tesla 3 and is saving tons of money on his commute. It has full self driving mode (we tried it, and it’s amazing, especially in stop-and-go traffic. I get it, some of you don’t work, or you do, but not in a metropolitan area, so traffic’s never a problem for you.)

If anything, I think EVs would have hit the market decades earlier if it weren’t for “big oil” doing everything it could to thwart an alternative option that might threaten their cash cow. That, and the space aliens wanting us to save the fossil fuels for themselves for when they invade our planet later (see, I can easily make unsubstantiated sh*t up too &#128514.

Seriously though: my sister bought a monster SUV for her 4 teenage kids and 2 big dogs for those times when she wanted to take the whole family somewhere. Instead she spent 99% of the time driving around in that behemoth of a car by herself on trips that were 20 miles or less. Why not buy something more logical for the 99% of the time, and rent the behemoth SUV for the 1% of the time you actually need it. Rental apps like Turo make it super easy these days! Several years later she traded it in for an EV because it saved a ton of money. (See, when it hurts consumers in their wallet, they change behavior most of the time.)

I will say I took my F-Type out for an hour yesterday on some curvy back roads and had a smile from ear-to-ear. The snap-crackle-pops… the handling… the drama of an ICE. It’s the reason I bought the Jag: Fahrvergnügen! In contrast, my wife only wants a car that has heated seats and heated steering wheel; she would even prefer not to drive when going from point A to point B.

 

If battery technology isn't good enough for most people today, imagine how thrilled people would have been with it "decades ago."

There is no question that EVs can work for some people, but the market has spoken and most would assume wait until it makes a lot more sense. At 38c/kwh around here, it amazes me that anybody can make that work, yet you can't spit five feet in any direction without hitting one. Of course, there are a fair number of people still wearing masks [while driving alone!] around here, so go figure.

 

" there are a fair number of people still wearing masks while driving alone! ".
It's a one party state. ​​​

 

The average person drives about 15k miles per year and spends about $1800 on gas for their ICE car. Same mileage costs $850 for an EV in electricity, even at the price per kWh you quoted. The math just works out cheaper for the EV.

Average new ICE car is about $45k. You can get a new Tesla 3 for $30k. If cost is a main factor, the math looks pretty darn good for the EV in almost every case.

As far as battery technology goes… now that Elon has given the middle finger to the Big Oil industry and pushed past their sabotage of battery research, we have made leaps and bounds in a short time.

Last year for example, renewables produced almost 1/3 of the world’s electricity. The early adopters are already reaping the benefits of free energy falling from the sky, harnessing it and storing it (in home and EV batteries). The late-comers will show up too, but generally only after it hurts them in the wallet. It’s human nature for there to be resistance to change.

I spent every summer growing up in Kansas, and I’ve been back to visit family twice this year already. I was pleasantly surprised to see about 1 in 10 cars were EVs on the road. People are good at math!

 

👆👆 This is it. It was very "buzzy", couple that with altruism, and the financial ability to own one, add in some guilt and superhero syndrome and it was very appealing in the beginning. (And by beginning, I mean up-until-now). The point is that who it really "works" for well are actually a very small subset of the population and area across the entire globe. For this reason alone, it will become niche, but nothing more - like motorcycles, but in much much smaller numbers. I am full on libertarian and, as such, a man can own, do, play, be with...whatever, whomever, etc. so long as it doesn't bump up against my rights and personal freedoms. Raising electrical prices on the entire population in an area to build out infrastructure to handle EV increases ain't it. That is nonsense. I see EVs as sort of a fun toy, but not much else. My oldest son bought a Tesla when he was in the Air Force. Paid cash for it straight up. He also told me one time that he didn't think in any way that he was being any more environmentally sound than any ICE owner out there because he knew the terrible impact production and mining has on the environment. He is a bit of a climate alarmist to boot, which made this statement a little surprising, but is doesn't generally fall into the cognitive dissonance trap so is usually honest about things like this. Anyway, he told me he had it because he thought the tech was cool, it was super fun to drive, and he just wanted one. That I can respect. But to be blind and say EVs are the future, nope. One must be new to think that. It cannot stand alone on its own merits. Once subsidies stop and favor has fallen, it will be niche, at best.

 

My Tesla 3 buddy is taking his car on a 300 mile (each way) road trip tomorrow. Doesn’t have to stop to recharge until he gets to his destination. The bigger batteries let you go 450 miles.

I own 3 ICE cars right now including the F-Type, and the way I drive, none of them can do 450 miles on a single tank of gas. Seems like the battery tech is working out just fine despite the rumors to the contrary, right?

 

If you're comparing average car prices what's the average price of an EV? Or compare a cheap EV (Tesla 3) with a cheap ICEV - let's have some consistency, no cherry picking!

 

I’m just saying that the average price of a brand new full size ICE pickup truck in 2024 is $65k.

Here’s a list of about 150 different EV options for less than $65k. If it’s about economics, EVs are in the game.

If you have enough money for one of your cars to be a full size ICE pickup truck, then EVs are definitely in the ballpark of your price range for a second car.

 

BTW, if you haven’t already seen it, here’s a good video

Drag Race: Tesla Model 3 Performance vs Jaguar F-Type R

Clearly the F-Type wins the exhaust test every time, which is why every car enthusiast will stick with buying an ICE. Emotionally, they’re just a better choice.

But (spoiler alert) that’s about all the F-Type wins in that drag race.

The F-Type R new these days is in the $100k range. The Tesla 3 Performance model is in the $55k range. Crazy

 

What about the 0-160 mph time?
And the exclusivity test?

 

And repeatability. Heat soak affects the battery packs quicker and for longer than it does an ICE car.

 

I think his last statement in that video was spot on for to 99% of the cases. When you’re fighting for that spot on the road with another car, ICE cars lose every time to an EV.

I’ll buy the F-Type every time over an EV, but my $0.02: this conversation reminds me a lot of Detroit saying in the 70s that foreign smaller cars will never sell in the United States. And then when they were wrong they answered with the Ford Pinto!

 

Were the potential buyers of foreign smaller cars given tax breaks and other incentives to buy them? Or did your government just insist?

 

When OPEC decided to enact an oil embargo against the US in 1973, Congress responded with CAFE. It wasn’t an incentive, but insisted by government nonetheless. CAFE (enacted in 1975) required auto manufacturers to meet fuel economy standards or face monetary penalties (if it hurts in the wallet, corporations tend to change behavior).

My first car was a 1971 brown Ford Torino that my dad bought for me for $500 used. That beast got like 10 mpg! That thing had 2 doors on it, that when you opened them, were like wings on a plane they were so long!

After CAFE was introduced, passenger cars sold in the US had to meet 18mpg efficiency initially (my ‘71 Torino got 10mpg!). Now it’s much higher. Passenger cars produced in 2020 had to reach 42.4 mpg average or face penalties.

 

The service advisor at the Jaguar / Land Rover dealership here in Scottsdale, AZ. told me that effective January 1, 2025 they will no longer service Jaguar vehicles. They will only sell and service Land/Range Rover vehicles.
Not being a DIYer. instead of driving 5 miles to the Scottsdale dealership, I will have to drive 15-20 miles to the ones in either Chandler or Glendale.for my services. Maybe I should sell my 2012 XJL that I have had since new. Poured
thousands of dollars into in, but still luv it. JLR seems to have just written guys like me off.

 

Wrong. If you have to worry about where you are going to get your next charge, a 450 mile range doesn't matter. If you drive an ICE car, you know you can get gas anywhere, anytime. In this day and age where people are afraid of EVERY damn thing, being stranded on the side of the road because your battery is dead is not so high on people's to do list. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff too, like people not having garages, resale issues, cold weather, etc.

Nobody inherently has anything against EVs, they just don't make sense now for the majority of the population. Perhaps some day they will. Perhaps it will be hydrogen that makes more sense, or some other fuel. The only thing people care about is that the car they drive makes sense [practical affordability]. For the car enthusiasts, ICE cars will most likely be around for a long time as ICE is further refined. The biggest problem most people had with this entire EV project is that it was infused with ideology from the beginning [which is generally the short road to hell].

 

LOL @ Fiskar and doesn't the FIAT 500e have max range of like 120 miles or something? Come on, these aren't realistic comparisons. SO MUCH more goes into vehicle ownership than initial cost. EV's are only "in the game" as a niche for folks with $$$ and a guilty conscious. "Average" people are not buying brand new average new cars. Sure, many are, but it is on the falling side of the bell curve that is for sure. In order to compare - what is the average cost of repairs, turn-around/down time, access to repair to begin with? It doesn't have the legs - there is far too much headwind to ever be mainstream and "for the average person" by and large. FEVs are not going to be it. Now, PHEV's - that is a totally different story on nearly every front and I think the manufacturers are starting to realize this. EVs appear to be fun, and clearly serve some purpose or no one at all would buy them. However, that is not really the debate/discussion. It is whether or not they are in the game as a new paradigm of widely adopted transportation. I think the answer is starting to clearly become no.

 

That may have been true 10 years ago, but not today. There are as many charging stations as there are gas stations in the places where the majority of the people live. In addition, the EV tells you how far away you are from the nearest charging station, and what level your battery will be when you get to your destination. It advance warns you in the same way your gas light comes on in an ICE car when you’re close to empty.

But you’re focusing on what I call the “edge case”, when you travel long distances. 99% of all car trips are less than 100 miles, which means EVs are already economically more sound than their ICE counterparts. The math doesn’t lie. Most EV owners charge at home or work while their car is parked, and don’t worry about charging in between.

For the 1% of time you need to take that long road trip, rent a gas-powered car. 👍🏼

 

I leased an EV for three years (2015-2018). For a period of time, it was darn near perfect for me, but that was a very specific set of variables that changed negatively. I replaced the EV with my F-Type and when my wife got her new car two years ago, we quickly dismissed an EV for her.

When it worked was when I worked downtown and the parking garage had 9 chargers that were zero cost. Free charging! I got a nice HOV lane sticker and charged up at work every day. For the first year, there was just one other EV. After about a year and a half, there were 13. The signs said 4 hours max for charging, but that was not enforced and people would stay all day. If you weren't one of the first 9 people, you were SOL. Additionally, entitlement would kick in and people would unplug other cars well before they were charged to plug in their own. My coworker had it happen to him multiple times after about 15 minutes. Mine was safe as my car locked in the cable. I solved the problem by coming in to work earlier. Then I changed jobs.

With the new job, there were only two charges and they were always in use. I did 100% of my charging at home. I also found that I could not drive to the end of my range because I could not count on a charger being available. They were usually tied up by plug in hybrids that used them as reserved up close parking. I also discovered that the cold would sap about 20% of the range and going up hills was a real problem. In theory, I could get to Lake Tahoe, but I chewed up range at about 2.5 to1 going up I-80. A 60 mile uphill climb would chew through about 150 miles of range in the best of conditions.

Pretend I did have a 450 mile range and I drove to Paso Robles on one charge. Fantastic! Neither of our cars car do that, but a quick stop at the gas station on the way and we are good to go for the weekend. With an EV, you will have to hunt out a charging station. Even if you find some sort of fast charging station, they only fast charge to about 70-80%. The final percentage takes far longer. Some places have charging stations, but good luck finding available ones. The last time I was down there, I noted that two wineries had chargers. One didn't work and the other had a Tesla attached. To make the weekend work, I would have needed to find an open charger somewhere in town and wait for a full charge. I would then need to repeat that process before going home and it's not usually for other people to have the same idea. Lines at convenient charging stations (like Kettleman City off I-5) have been excessively long.

Where the EV shines is quick trips around town and daily commuting. Long range means if you forget to charge for a day or two, you are OK. It doesn't make it a good road trip car for the way I like to travel.

 

All of those problems with chargers being taken up have been solved now with “idle time” fees. After your car reaches full capacity, you’re alerted on your smart phone that you will continue to be charged while your car sits there at 100% capacity. (When it hurts in the wallet, people change their behavior.)

My Tesla 3 buddy has free super charger use for the first 3 months. In 15 mins, it charged his 300 mile-range battery enough to go an additional 175 miles.

But again, we’re focusing on the “edge case” long distance trip.

99% of car trips in the United States are less than 100 miles. Plenty of time for you to get out and back on a full charge, and then charge overnight to full capacity again while your car is parked in your garage.

Most family households have 2 cars. Why not one EV for the 99% of trips around town to run errands and commute to work, and for the 1% of time where Americans have that longer-than-100 mile trip, take the gas-powered 2nd car.

I like taking the F-Type, but not just to go to 7-11 to get that forgotten gallon of milk.