There is a lot of information on GM sites and publications that has application to Jaguar supercharged motors as they use the same basic Eaton superchargers. GM High Tech magazine March issue pages 77-80 describes a system which uses the OEM air conditioner to super cool the intercooler. Here is a site address for the vendor, RX Performance Products. RX Super Chiller System.

 

[IMG]http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u284/pattyjag/killer%20chiller/killerchiller015.jpg

Here is a photo of how cold you can get the charge coolers while sitting at idle with a Killer Chiller fitted. Here is a link. Killer Chiller the Active Intercooler solution for OEM* and after maket intercooler systems.

 

Here is a photo of how cold you can get the charge coolers while sitting at idle with a Killer Chiller fitted. Here is a link. Killer Chiller the Active Intercooler solution for OEM* and after maket intercooler systems.

 

we tried a system something like that back in the 1990s, it would lower the air temp so much that the ECU could not richen up the A/F mixture fast enough or rich enough, and engine would go LEAN at hi-boost,(course technology has advanced) ,but be careful.

hi-boost and lean A/F dont go well together! things may get annoying.

 

Looks like the Killer Chiller is a much cheaper deal.
I would not worry too much about "going too lean", but I would establish baseline air/fuel ratios in both closed loop and open loop. I suspect the motor could easily maintain 14.7 in closed loop. It can do this in sub-zero weather, so why wouldn't it with the chiller?
Open loop is mostly a fuel dump; and generally speaking most cars are pig rich on open loop. This mixture provides a reserve for intake/exhaust mods which tend to lean a mixture.
I have an XK, preferring a NA at this time in my life - I'm a geezer. But I do have an air/fuel meter. Mine uses a wide-band oxy sensor attached to a portable 1.25" pipe that I can clamp quickly and easily into any exhaust pipe. I've had my meter about 13 years now. Paid about $2K for it then. Now you can find these meters for much less than $500. My point is that serious tuning requires air/fuel data.

 

If the R143a refrigerant were to leak from the charger cooler into the intake system, it will breakdown during the combustion process to produce hydrofluoric acid, which is a rather unpleasant substance !

 

The only 2 places that the R134 can leak are either into the coolant for the charge coolers or to the atmosphere. There is no way it can leak into the induction system.

 

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...ers-xkr-89128/

For video and detailed explanation.

 

 

like they talk about ,it would be ok for short runs,drag etc.

but for a long hiway pull it could heat IAT quite a bit, like an interstate top end run.

say something like a Bonneville run.

 

I don't understand what you mean by the IAT rising on a hard run. The most amazing thing about the Chiller is has quickly it lowers the temp of the coolant as soon as you back off the throttle. I can do a long highway run with 22 psi of boost & watch thde coolant temp rise ( I moniter the temp on the outlet of the coolers so as to see the highest temp) & as soon as I start to back off you can watch the temp start to go down. If you think about it how often are you under heavy boost. With the Chiller fitted the car on a hot summer day runs like it does on a cool fall day.

 

yes i agree, and it is definatly better than without.

i wonder why the factory dont put a system on , cars like that Camaro are reaching super car performance, couldnt be that much more money, already paying big money anyway.

that concept has been around since the 60s, in old turbo books at least.

 

I remember back when John Coletti ran SVT they were looking at having a system like this as part of the SVT Cobra package back in 2004. They never could get the system working the way they wanted & the idea never got beyond the test-mule phase. Glad to see that the idea didn't die & even progressed to this point. Who knows, it may become a standard item on performance cars of the future. Just gotta wait & see.

 

The video is a 50 second interstate WOT run and then later more WOT extended runs.

The SVT project (we have a form VP from Rousch on staff) would have turned out great if not nixed. What most dont understand about auto manufacturing is the engineers are some of the best in the world period, but they are not allowed to implement the best solutions for any application or we would be paying $250k for a ford focus. Each model is targeted to a certain demographic and the target price to produce and sell has to fit into a very narrow target range (take the cadillac CTSV....near super car performance and at the top of the cadillac price point, then the CTS 3.6L DI base for a fraction of the cost....same body and appearance nearly, but 28 mpg, 87 octaine, etc. BUT at 11.3:1 CR that motor will get better fuel economy and make 10-15 hp more than w/87......but it is targeted to the buyer that will pay more than a base chevrolet with similar platform....but still want to put cheap gas in, get reasonable fuel economy, yet pay far less than the V.)

There are trade off's everywhere and the engineers are so controlled as to what actually gets implemented. So why are almost all cars and light trucks today built with oil ingestion that creates valve coking deposits that degrade power & economy in as little as 10-15k miles? Why is 1 qt of consumption every 2k miles acceptable? why cant the car buyer open their hood and check trans fuild level? (no dipstick)....it is all a very well planned marketing and reacuuring revenue stream to condition a car buy public to get in, drive until a DIC prompt tells them to bring it to the dealer for service, and when it is not performing as new, trade it in on another. The science behind every marketing campaign, every make/model/sub-model, every ad etc. all controlled not by building the best car possible for the $$ (except the super cars that are still hand built and spare no expense), but the best within budget constraints and I can't tell you how many times an engineer is shot down even if a simple improvement may only add $2-3 to the total cost. It has to get by accounting, marketing, legal, and upper management....and that does not get approved even though it would make a better car all around.

Back in the 60's it was a wonderland of letting us, the engineers loose to do as we pleased and look what it delivered.....hemi mopars, BBC vettes, Boss 429 mustangs, etc. That era is gone and will never return...it is all a trade off with the engineers having little to no say on anything.....just design and engineer what they are told to like robots.

I could go on for hours, but just like a service department with huge pressure to void a warranty or deny a fix as the factory reimbursement may only be $90-95 hr vs $120 plus for shop rate. Why so many service writers or mngrs BS the customer as they continue to dumb them down to not even knowing how to check their own oil.

The RX SuperChiller works unreal even on a road course if the AC comp is tuned to not disengage at WOT, or a remote 12 or 24V compressor is used. Until someone has seen it in operation firsthand, it is so hard to actuall grasp just how dramatic of a difference this can make, and only add 12-14#'s to the car.

Lets get some specific dialog going here....ask detailed questions & I'll answer them.

 

Thanks for the dialogue offer!

As far as I know airco's just don’t have enough capacity to remove all the heat the supercharger is producing. That said, the heat generation depends of course on the type of supercharger you use and also at what boost (and airflow to be complete).

Most here (except jgaxkr) run the old Eaton roots unit, and also on higher boost levels (so very high temps, and thus producing lots of BTU).

As I don’t know what supercharger you have used in the video, and also not at what boost levels, it is more difficult to compare to our cars. As a larger capacity twin-screw unit running at low boost does generate much less heat, than a smaller eaton (roots) running at high boost.

Turning on the airco during driving also costs power, so there is a tradeoff doing that, so pending on usage you can be better of adding a buffer into the system, but all depends on how you are using the power.

Personally I would find it tricky to tune the car based on the system being on, as you always need be sure the system is working, and also you need to watch what the temps are doing if you are using it for prolonged runs.

I can certainly see it working for certain conditions, so am not negative about the system as such, but more info is required for our cars, so am interested to hear more about similar setups (so similar heat outputs).

 

Most of these we install on Eaton based....Maggie's, Whipples, Lysholm's, and Kenne Bell's up to 16-18# of boost. We have found the cadillac CTS-V's have barely a # of freon capacity so at 900 plus HP we can only reduce the IAT's 10-15* F when run hard. Most any other application like the GT500 shelby's (very similar to the Jag) we reduce IAT's 40-50* F from the standard heat exchanger. In the tune, there are IAT tables that comand the PCM to pull timing at say 115* -1-2 degrees, up to at 180 and above 8-10* plus (app 30-50 rwhp). so with no tune we see 20-30 RWHP gains on the dyno from system off using the stock HE vs the RX SuperChiller on.

In the video is a 2010 Camaro wit a maggie making 700 hp...so over driven quite a bit.

We have a 2009 GT500 in house over driven making over 600 HP and the coolant temps EXITING the intercooler AFTER chilling the intake air charge run 50-60* F or less. You can tune for the lower IAT's as long as in the IAT tables you leave the timing pull points intact to protect if the AC comp fails as it reverts to the standard HE for cooling. With tuning for the denser air charge depending on the amount of boost, build, etc. we see 20-70 more rwhp.

As long as it is a vehicle w/facory air and a liguid to air intercooler, we adapt these to every application you can imagine. Now with a turbo or centri blower (front mount) where your blowing through a MAF, condesation can be an issue. Then a speed density tune is used. We haven't done any much above 1000 hp so there will be a limit somewhere as on the caddy ctsv we hit the wall around 700 plus.

 

Were doing a jag in the next couple weeks so stay tuned for all results and step by step coverage of it.

:thumbs:

 

You may find that it isn’t that easy to custom tune the Jaguar ECU, so even besides that standard changes, you would also need to find the ignition retard table used for the IAT#2 (temp sensor after the IC), but it would be great if you could do it!

Personally I don’t think you can compare the Shelby GT500 to these engines, maybe if you would be running about the same boost though (assuming it has the 122 eaton), but beter to wait now for the results of the jaguar you are going to do.

I checked out the video, but I can’t see any 50 seconds high boost runs, Only relatively slow bursts of power, not that you can do long power runs anyway on the public street (except in Germany ;-)).

Am looking forward to the Jaguar you are going to do, and it would be interesting to see what happens in a 12/13 second full power run (i.e. a ¼ mile).

Which Jaguar is it (model/year), and will you do any tuning/dyno runs? What boost wil the car run?

 

And ive already been looking into this for the 4.0v6 nissan engine im finishing up in the truck with the kenne bell 2.6. Ive been trying to see if autometer has a air intake temp sensor in the cobalt series to match my afr and boost gauges. Cant find one though. Either that or run a coolant temp into the aftercooler to monitor temps. It gets hot here in houston and heat soak can be a big issue with boost and detonation. So i think a system like this is a benefit as we all know what colder denser air does to hp. And typically afr's under boost wot are 11-12. 14.7 is asking for a melted piston. I typically see 11's on factory tunes and i run low 12's on mine. With the new sc and output hp levels the math requires 750cc injectors, but no margine for error running 85 duty cycle, so 1000 is the next step up to afford the margine needed to not run into issue. Aem just came out with a nice 325lph intank pump that looks to be a replacement for the jag and nissan pumpslike the walbro's.

 

Were running the Aeromotive coolant temp goage with these that want it, but a red digital rectangle guage is included standard. The IAT 2's run app 10 degrees above the actual IC coolant temp with most TVS/Eaton 2300 blowers.

02 XKR with ugraded blower.

Stay tuned....he will start a thread on it for step by step installation and results.

Theguys in the middle east running these have better results than us in FL with the high humidity