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yes, comparing new or used parts across manufacturers or models or eras is fraught with peril. for example: two taillights for two popular 2007 vehicles; an aston martin vantage and a dodge ram 1500 could run either $2000 or o $44 dollars.
i'll leave it to the reader to guess which is which.
I can agree with that. Newer is not always better. And I have reused oil pumps before so I would probably do the same if the condition of it looked good. But youd need to disassemble it and check for wear
appears to provide good engine machining and rebuilding with reasonable prices. What seems to be missing from your description to me is essentially new parts. To me any engine that old should get new pistons, rings, valves, valve guides, valve springs updated with new or roller rockers, camshaft, crank, bearings, oil pump, and those parts should not be reconditioned or as needed. Maybe you would have the induction (carbs) professionally rebuilt but to me the internals should be new and ideally with forged internal parts, and even the valve guides should be changed to modern types of materials like nickel/bronze, etc. where the old ones are removed and the new ones pressed in with a 3 angle or full radius machining for improved flow. For better power and efficiency the heads should be ported. That is where the quality machining and engine building take place with head work, shot peening the crank, taking the time to blue-print & balance everything. At Vintage Jag works they list options that I would opt to upgrade such as:
r main lip seal, XK-type engines 1949-87 680.00 4.2 BBC main bearings, 4.2 engines 1,350.00 Cam bearing align bore 450.00 Weld water ports, 3.4 & 3.8 engines 650.00 Oversize valves (Big valve conversion) 1,350.00 Valve seat replacement, each 180.00 Tappet guide hold down, per side 170.00 Tappet guide replacement, each 240.0
An optional modification to the rear seal can be added to accept a modern lip seal. Ultra polish also available.
increased valve size
connecting rods that are matched weighted, machined, polished and using all ARP bolts & nuts, which ARP should be used for any bolts and nuts
Like AarCuda I agree that for that cost the things I mentioned above should be included to justify the price. When I recently had my LS for the Jag rebuilt it was done with all new internals from pistons, rings, valve seats, connecting rods, crank, cam, etc. and those were all forged high quality lightweight racing quality/brands, along with a high performance oil pump for reliability, and all bolts and nuts were ARP brand, as well as new intake with new coil packs. Thus their machining skills were left to the block, porting the head, balance and blue-printing everything as all the parts were new. For all of that my cost was about $12K and provided 500 HP of reliable street focused design. That is just the engine not installing it but that gives an idea of what going to a good machine shop that focuses on engine building can do. That is less than the other route I could have done but in my case could create more issues as an LS3 and slight differences compared to an LS1 which might create issues given how tight my engine bay is; a comparable performance crate engine from places like Mast Performance would go for $16K to 18K.
I have also had very high performance Nissan L6 straight inline 6 engines built and like others said, yes the parts are more than an American engine but they would be similar to a Jaguar. On several Nissan engines I had built they follow my recommendations of all new internals forged and just like a Jaguar those are custom pistons, etc. from the same top manufacturers of proven race parts and yes they are often double or more than an American V8 but it will run about $12K to $20K for a fully built, balanced and blue-printed Nissan engine with all custom forged internals, with all ARP nuts/bolts with custom port work big valves, and the whole 9 yards which would be about the same for a Jaguar if you find the right builder whom does not rip you off.
i've just approved the above estimate and given permission to "carry on".
i thank you all for your contributions. they were a great help!
Just make sure they stick to the budget and don't suddenly come up with "Oh by the way that had to be done and it is extra!"
The other thing I would say is get them to agree to a time scale. A date when the car is going to be finished. My story is when I started rebuilding my S Type I stripped the car down and took the engine to my engine machinist to have the rebore done. Delivered the block, head all the parts like the pistons and valves and put it on the workshop floor all together. When asked when I needed it for I stupidly said " No rush I have only just stripped the car down for the rebuild".
Nine months later I called in having been really busy with all the other things involved in the rebuild to see how they were getting on. The engine was where I had left it with the new parts in their boxes with a layer of dirt on top. I question why it had not been done as they had had the engine for nine months to be asked, "When do you want it back?" I said I wanted it by the end of the next week and true to their word when I returned 10 days later and it was all done for me. If you say there is no rush I can assure you they will not rush and other jobs that are "rush" will be put before it. Tell you want the car back on Tuesday and then keep calling in to make sure the work is being done.
after i sent them an email in which i approved moving on with the project, i received a response indicating that i would be receiving periodic updates with photos of the progress and requests for additional deposits if necessary.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; Apr 13, 2023 at 08:54 PM.
It has useful points. Unfortunately, the pictures they refer to aren't there.
They also mention the triple cut of the valves and using larger inlet valves as suggested by Primaz. I'd support these ideas especially the larger valves. The XK head flows extremely well for the port and valve sizes that it has, but not particularly well for the cylinder volume that it has to fill. An increase in inlet valve diameter and some very mild port work would be positive. I'd be very restrained with the port work in order not to slow down combustion.
thank you. i read the article and the info it contained will no doubt be useful.
i should note that the rebuild will NOT be using my original head or block, as the head has suffered massive and repeated overheating and the block is cracked in several places. one of which was brazed at one point in the past, has now reopened, and runs from the cylinder wall to the atmosphere. other small ones in the block run between cylinders. it's a wonder the engine could still run all day for six days at 65mph!
thank you. i read the article and the info it contained will no doubt be useful.
i should note that the rebuild will NOT be using my original head or block, as the head has suffered massive and repeated overheating and the block is cracked in several places. one of which was brazed at one point in the past, has now reopened, and runs from the cylinder wall to the atmosphere. other small ones in the block run between cylinders. it's a wonder the engine could still run all day for six days at 65mph!
An XK straight 6 is more available and more powerful and will fit:
Team CJ does stock versions from 20K to their performance street for $25K with a 3 year warranty and their performance street will put down 300 HP
or for a Team CJ completely built performance street engine here is their specs and cost Team CJ stage one engine specs and pricing
I had my 3.4 engine rebuilt last year by Thruxton Jaguar. With the exception of the crank, everything that moved in the engine was renewed. Flywheel lightened, big inlet valves, polished and ported - runs like a Swiss watch, and is well up on standard power. That cost be just under £12k including a head skim and water galleries welded.
I had my 3.4 engine rebuilt last year by Thruxton Jaguar. With the exception of the crank, everything that moved in the engine was renewed. Flywheel lightened, big inlet valves, polished and ported - runs like a Swiss watch, and is well up on standard power. That cost be just under £12k including a head skim and water galleries welded.
Nice, that is in pounds which is about $15,000 US so probably with a new crank, it still a great value as it seems CJ would want about 20K, but Vintage Jag works here in the US was doing similar work for actually around $12,000 US and with $15K or so you could get some nice machine shop upgrades. Both of these and your shop are doing more improved internals for a reasonable cost given Jags are like Datsun Z cars more expensive than American V8's
in case there is some confusion. Vintage Jag Works in Idaho, is the shop i've chosen to do the rebuild. they'll get my old block and head as they are supplying the new-to-me matching block and head. and the job will include what i posted at the top of this thread. i've approved their estimate of $20-25000. this will include installation and storage until the job is done. est. is at least three months.
i've recently visited their shop and met the family. they are outgoing, yet humble, quick to return calls if the party i want to speak to is unavailable, the shop is jam packed with XK engine parts and they and their father before them have been using a machine shop twenty-five miles away in Pocatello for decades. and if they are getting rich by overcharging their clients, they are hiding all their money because there is scant evidence of it around their home! haha
BTW, checking my phone log, i called Team CJ in january, soon after a call to the outfit in delaware ohio proved that the project had stalled and there appeared to be no resolution in the offing. they were also unhelpful when it was proposed that i arrange to have a fully re-built and paid for engine shipped to their shop. i subsequently contacted Vintage Jag Works and have been coordinating the rebuild project with them ever since. i can't remember the conversation i had with Team CJ or even if the phone call in referred to resulted in a conversation with them. all i know is that one of their phone numbers is in my phone log for mid-jan 2023. it's not surprising, seeing as how in january, i cold called just about every jaguar engine rebuilder in the U.S.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; Apr 15, 2023 at 08:34 PM.
I can remember years ago from the Jag-lovers E Type forum that there were very mixed opinions and outcomes about CJ in Texas. I think you have probably made a good decision to use Vintage Jag Works.
I don't remember all of the details of this saga, but as I recall you are in the East Bay area. I grew up in the East Bay and lived most of my life there as well. The traffic is dreadful now, so please (if you have not done so already) consider cooling system upgrades as crawling along in stop-n-go traffic can suddenly become the order of the day! Jags tend not to like this very much.
I fitted an uprated Northampton Radiators copper tropical radiator via Barratts to my car. Had I known whose name tag I would find on it I would have gone direct. She runs as cool as a cucumber in SA's heat. The Thermostat is there to keep the temperature up rather than the reverse. Looks correct. Most happy. Of course use the shrouded thermostat that blocks the bypass port so that 100% of the coolant goes via the radiator hot.
Mistake in spares book ~ picture correct ~ P/N wrong. P/N required =
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Apr 16, 2023 at 11:37 AM.
when i viewed what will become my new-to-me head and block (from Vintage Jag Works), it appeared the internal passages were devoid of deposits. i trust that the builders are aware of overheating problems and will build the engine accordingly. they literally have a lifetime of experience with these engines, as their father started the business when they were children and is now retired. their playground IS the shop where my engine is being rebuilt.
Last edited by hueyhoolihan; Apr 16, 2023 at 03:33 PM.
