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Good evening
I'am about to acquire a very nice Jaguar S-type 1966, Old english White. Until then no problem.
But when looking at the body, there is a significant difference : this Jaguar S-Type 1966 has an MK2 front style.
That's all : the rest is fully consistent with a Jaguar S-Type. It's impossible to see any change on the body : no trace of any welding on the chassis. I have made a deep investigation on the chassis, under the car and so on and found nothing.
The ID plate with the 4 numbers (car, engine, body, gearbox) are known and match with an existing car.
The car number P1B 79358 BW is stamped in the bonnet catch channel forward of the radiator header tank and is matching with the one on main ID plate.
The body number 4B 61514 is stamped on a small plate attached to the right-hand side of the body behind the rear bumper.
It's difficult to guess that the front of this Jaguar S-Type has been completly changed front style.
The front body of this Jaguar S-type 1966
Would you have an idea from a front body point of view ? This car remains a mystery.
Any input, advice or comment is welcome.
Regards
Gerard
I agree. That is Very interesting. If it was a custom job, I think the easiest way would be to cut at the tops of the front wheel arches, so there would be a weld line there.... Have you checked on the S-Type register? The gurus there may have something for you. Jagstyperegister.com.
It happened occasionally 'back in the day.' British Leyland weren't very good in keeping up the parts supply for obsolete models and their supply of panels for our cars dried up in the 1970s. S type front wings probably ran out/became difficult to find before those of the Mk2. Later when Martin Robey started making them, he went into the Mk2 long before the S type. The result was that body shops used Mk2 wings to repair damaged S types. Of course, a decent shop would have modified them to the correct form. But that would have added to the cost and the cars weren't worth much in those days.
Somehow, it's difficult to imagine it's factory in 1966. And if Jaguar had made it to special order for a customer who wanted the front of a Mk2 on the back of an S type, wouldn't they have used correct Mk2 front indicators?
Well very interesting but I have to say not factory. In 1966 the Jaguar factory was going through a lot of strike and industrial action but I doubt if they would have stuck the front end of an Mk2 on to an S Type. If they had this would have been a very desirable and expensive car being unique from the factory. If it had been factory someone would have written about it in the last 57 years.
On the register the closest chassis number is P1B79354BW but there are no other details for this car ie no other vehicle VIN numbers.
Interestingly though the next highest chassis number on the register is LHD 3.8 P1b79364BW with an engine number of 7B61433-9, a gear box number of JBC27134P and a body number of 4B61514 which strangely is the same as your body number. This is either a mistake on the register or the same vehicle or you have got your body number wrong. This vehicle is in Ocean City Maryland USA and on this web site there are pictures of it during a recent rebuild showing S Type front wings. This vehicle is now in Gunmetal grey as far as I am aware.
My theory as to the Mk2 front end is that the vehicle has been in an accident or better has just had very rusty front S Type wings. They notoriously rust out around the head lamps, side lights and over the wheel arches. The owner has then restored the vehicle but not been able to get hold of replacement S Type front wings, which are more rare than Mk2 front wings, so has just changed the whole front end. It actually goes together quite well.
A friend of mine called Ian in the UK had a blue 3.4 S Type which he turned up to a show for the first time where I noticed his front wheel arches were squared off on the tops when they should have been round. Ian had not even noticed this mistake himself and we put this down to the previous owner having to repair the rusted out front wheel arches and the only repair panels he could get hold of were those for Jaguar 420. Anything to keep these cars on the road.
Gerard can you update your location or let us know where in the world this vehicle is please.
Jaguar had six models in 1966 that were almost identical -- the Mk2, the Daimler 2.5 V8, the Daimler V8-250, the 240, the 340, and the S-type (also referred to as the 3.8S). Also the new body style of the 420 and Daimler Sovereign were introduced the same year. Some parts were shared across the models. My best guess is that the factory was running out of some body parts, and the decision was made to put a Mk2 front on the S-type frame and rear. Since it was for export (and perhaps a special order), it had a valid VIN tag, but the tag was not accurate in terms of what the car actually was.
Do you think that this car has a depreciation versus the real value
Regards
Gérard
Putting aside the discussion of how it came to be, it looks to be a very nice car. Apart from possibly the indicator lamps, I certainly wouldn't change anything. Congratulations on finding it.
I agree with Pete I would not change anything on the car. I don't know who your expert in the UK is but I doubt Jaguar would have made this in the factory. There would be a write up about this special somewhere with photos to boot. I appreciate some things remain hidden in garages for years but this is rather special and I wish I had found it first. You need to speak to the seller who might have more information about previous owners, then contact them and see how far it goes back before the wings and front end were fitted. It is a shame that David Reilly who could have been classed as the expert on all things S Type died last year. That said if he had known about this car he would have mentioned it at some time in his quarterly newsletter but as far as I am aware he never mentioned it.
In terms of valuation there is nothing to compare it with. I would say it was worth more than an S type and possibly more than a Mk2. Like all classic cars if two people want it the price could shoot up. This is unique as far as I am concerned, very nicely done and it does not matter whether it is factory or Frankenstein, it looks superb. When the S Type was first produced comments were made about its "ugly front end with hooded headlights" something I disagree with but this car certainly gives you an idea of what Jaguar could have done to get rid of those comments.
Like Cass I like the hooded headlights on the S Type and the more pronounced grill. I would fit the correct wiper arms with a kink in them so that they park lower.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Apr 2, 2024 at 05:05 AM.
There were definitely a couple of Mk2 winged S types around in the UK in the early 1980s. One appeared in a JDC magazine of the time. Their form was attributed to necessary compromises in repair work. What might be interesting as a Photoshop exercise would be to put MK1 wings on an S type - it could come out even better!
Good point, Bill. I think I'd go for the later wide grille. As it's Photoshop, it doesn't cost to do both (for those who have it on their machine and know how to use it, all of which excludes me).
The nose of the MK1 without fog lamps has an uncluttered elegance that the later didn't quite match. Lyons was good with details, but sometimes he could overload them a little.
Last edited by Peter3442; Apr 2, 2024 at 08:33 AM.
Just to confuse everyone further, are we not sure that this is a Mk2 Jaguar with Jaguar S Type rear wings fitted? lol
I know the shape of the rear roof line gives it away as an S Type.
Jaguar S-Type 1966
