We shouldn't be too negative about bitszers. After all, the Vicarage Mk2s (at least the early ones) were all bitszers as they made no effort to keep engines, gearboxes and bodies together. What's more worrying about the car Rishi has been looking at is that the car (chassis) number and body number don't match. Separating a unibody from its body suggests a cut and shut or at least a suspicious swap of bonnet catch panels. Though the car may be fine and perfectly sound, with increasingly strict and complicated rules and controls from a​​uthorities (RDW, DVLA, etc.), there may be registration problems in the future. As such, I think Rishi has made the right decision.

 

I'll echo Peters thoughts, but with a slightly different twist. I always judge a car but it's condition and what it is, not by a row of numbers, whether those are the odometer or an id plate. It also depends on your needs and regulatory environment.

I would look the car over closely, and it it is a sound body, good mechanicals and interior, then I wouldn't reject it. It appears there are no problems with the Dutch registration authorities or inspections, so that's probably not a cause for concern. The chassis/body numbers might present a concern if you tried to sell it out of the Netherlands, I have no idea if other EU jurisdictions would have problem either. If the price reflects possible problems selling outside NL, then I wouldn't necessarily cross this car off your list if it meets your needs/wants otherwise.

 

the BW66 was fitted to Series 3, XJ-6 models ( 1980-1987 ). It is an excellent transmission, a lot better than a DG-250 or a BW35 . Many owners upgrade transmisssions, I don't see this as a deal breaker.

 

I think the thing for me is that there is no way to seperate the body from the chassis on a MK2 so one of the numbers has to be wrong for the car, with that in mind there are two future problems:

1. Is there something dubious in the cars history that might mean you end up losing it for legal reasons (i.e. its a ringer).
2. When you come to sell the next purchaser may well have the same issues/concerns that you do which will make it hard to sell.

I think the OP is making the right decision to walk aways as unless its really cheap its not worth the hassle/risk. In the UK if you went to the DVLA with this issue you would probably end up having to re-register it somehow and possibly end up with a Q plate.

For me if it was just the engine and gearbox numbers that are different it wouldn't bother me one bit unless I was paying a lot of money for a matching numbers car.

 

it is obvious that car has been improved with a more modern transmission and engine. The only mistake has been removing the original Numbers Plate from the firewall and replacing it with another. Documenting the changes would have been enough. Unfortunately those Number Plates are available online in a blank form so a buyer can add their own numbers which is not exactly "ethical" or "fair" but it is done regardless.

 

The problem is that Europe is overcrowded and governments want money. They use every excuse to get cars off the road and raise cash and they keep changing the rules so you don't know what happens next. In the UK, cars over 40 years qualify for 'historic registration', which means no tax, voluntary MoT, and you can drive anywhere including in city low emission zones. To get my Mk2 registered as historic, I had to obtain a heritage certificate from the Heritage Trust for the licensing authority (DVLA) even though the car had been continuously registered with them since 1963. If the Netherlands adopt a similar scheme, Rishi might have a load of problems. And if he didn't take up the historic status, he might have a load of others about how or where he uses his car. France also has a historic category, but you have to pay quite a sum every year to keep your car in it. France used to have limits on what you could do with old cars (I think drive them only to old car events), but they subsequently dropped them. Basically, it's a total mess.

Kit cars and modified cars are hitting the same problems. When I was a kid, they used to say anyone from the West Midlands of England could build car pretty well from scratch. Even if it's still true, you have a lot of difficulty getting it registered and road legal. I looked up the Callum Mk2 on the DVLA records. According to them, it's status is 'off the road' and it still has its original engine rather than the bigger one CMC installed. And CMC don't seem to have made any more as they had promised. It would appear that even they ran into a bureaucratic wall. It's possible that car is now worthless, because once the car's fallen out of a category, it can't go back - 'de-modification' isn't accepted.

 

I hate to say it but I agree with Jose. The mistake was changing the VIN plate to match all the new bits that had been added. My S Type has only had one other owner from new. The old boy sadly died before I bought the car but during my restoration I found the gear box had been changed. Different number than that on the VIN plate. There were also holes in the gearbox tunnel that had been cause by a catastrophic explosion of the original gearbox that had not been repaired. The old gearbox was replaced with the same BW35 gearbox but not from an S type Jaguar according to the ID plate. I still have the original gearbox number on the VIN plate and it does not bother me.

This is the damage I found. What ever caused these holes circled in yellow must have scared the crap out of the driver when it happened. Shame I never met the old boy to ask what actually happened.

 

It does not actually have a BW66 transmission and the engine is LA which means it’s older than the car. The big problem for me was that an incorrect number was stamped next to the bonnet latch. It was a body number and not the Car/Chassis number. It’s pretty much the first thing you look for and anyone who has done a bit of study will notice it can’t be right. Stupid thing is the Dutch authorities used this as the VIN number and registered the car with this number. So technically it is legal but I think it would be very difficult to sell with a clear conscience. I know it would have bugged me and I want to be able to enjoy my car.

 

A fine honest man with a conscience.

 

We are blessed here in Australia. Most states now have "Historic/Modified Historic" concessional registration schemes which cost a paltry A$100 (circa) pa and entitles you to use your classic 60 days a year, unlimited milage with club events excluded. Cars over 30 years eligible. Just need to record each trip in a log book. Cheaper insurance to boot.
It sorta counteracts the other downsides on motoring here in Oz, like the ghastly roads and endless pot-hole patch-ups, and the avaricious police who engage in radar /avge speed traps to ensure they meet State revenue targets.

 

Yep, we have all of those as well. Years ago UK roads were biliard table quality. Now, some are so pot holed, you can't find the speed bumps.

 

I don't believe it! I found another very smart 1967 Mk 2 3.8 Automatic. Checked its registration and according to the authorities it is what it says. So I looked up the chassis number and its an early 1960 model. Either there is a lot fraud going on or the dutch registration authority makes a lot of mistakes!

 

I think the problem is modern systems used by the bureaucracy can't handle old chassis number details. Either provide 16 digit VIN or pot luck.
And trying to get them to correct records is hopeless.
Especially here in OZ. The Australian Property and Security Registry won't correct my Mk2 engine number ( #5 mistaken as an "S").
Woe behold trying to convince any civil/public servant their records are wrong!

 

Probably mistakes and a general lack of knowledge.
I had a classic when registering my current 1957 MK 1. at a Transport Centre some years ago. (it had been off the road for 10 years and had to go through the whole initial process.)
Young junior person inspecting the car dutifully noted the body number adjacent to the bonnet catch.
Insisted on using the valley head number as the engine number even though I pointed out the correct position adjacent to the oil filter. (they did match)
Then insisted I show them the VIN number. Advised me without a VIN number it couldn't be registered.
I requested the centre's manager to intervene which he dutifully did and advised the junior that VIN numbers had not been invented when this car was manufactured.
The manager later told me it was hard to get good staff and training was haphazard at the best.

 

That looks lovely. The seats look like mine which are out of a S1 XJ6. I don't get too hung up on originality TBH. Mine has a 4.2 out of an early XJ6, a BW Model 12 gearbox which is far superior to DG and parts are available and three SUS and linkage possibly out of a Mk2. It all looks "period"

 

It might be worth contacting the RDW and asking them how seriously they take all the numbers and if they are prepared to correct them to what you think they ought to be. They might be friendly and helpful.

 

I agree but its the fact that someone has stamped the Body Number next to the bonnet latch means someone has been messing about with the identity of the car. It was lovely and it was very difficult to walk away.

 

I am a little confused over Rishi's last post.
In MK1 and MK2 cars the body number should be stamped next to the bonnet latch on the left-hand side of the car. (or to your right if facing the car backwards)
I have had 12 of these cars over the last 40 odd years (I still have 2) and that body number location is standard practice.

 

Isn't it the car number, not the body number that's stamped there?

 

It should be the Car/Chassis number not the Body number that is stamped there. The number starts with an E (a body number indicating a 3.4), it should start with 22 (a chassis/car number for a 3.8).