No the US is not the rest of the world but it is one of the largest in many ways along with it's influence on cars.

True you are not young but you also seem to not even notice your fluid use of insults and condescending views. " Bitsa" so labeling anything that you do not agree with because they are customized and not stock with a term whose meaning is a vulgar, mongrel dog; I guess you see that as a compliment? You admit to being derogatory and assume you know what people think. Wow that is impressive. You may only feel a Jaguar is only a Jaguar if it is all stock but that is your opinion and not what everyone else would agree with. Oh, I forget you never rant? You just cannot help yourself about putting your views above everyone else.

Things do go in cycles but things are drastically changing today and there are less and less people that share your old school view of stock numbers matching anymore. There are still people whom love unique old style but more of them want to blend it with performance. Also the young people today do not even value cars as much as most of us have and the ones that do which will be the ones to create the future cycles of what is valued do not want to own or drive a old car that has no performance. Thus while I am not as arrogant to believe I can predict the future as you seem to, I would say the facts of today do not seem likely that the cycle will return to stock numbers matching in the future.

Whom knows, what I do know is that the project Utah Jaguar is a cool car in my opinion...

 

What I would like to see are these guy starting from scratch rather then visualizing what a more modern car would be if they built a new Mark II.
Like the fender skirts and that unsightly bulge to accommodate a car that was never meant for fat modern tires.
A whole new body should be made, but then again, I never liked fat wide tires on any car, new or old.

These two Bentley's, the Le Sarthe and the Blizzard, the Blizzard being my favorite.
If the Le Sarthe was fully skirted in the rear and had a proper Bentley grill, then I would want both.

The interesting things about these cars is that they used the antiquated F engine on the old R-Type frame.
They did upgrade the brakes and you could get many other things upgraded or use what cam with the R-Type frame, eg steering, transmission, alternator etc.

Both these cars turn my crank...

They look like proper motor cars with out being modified to the point where they look odd.

La Sarthe (bensportltd.co.uk)

 

Alan,
I think the this has gone far enough and should be left as either you like them or don't. None of your comments will change someones mind if they prefer an unmolested classic Jaguar over a highly modified retro.
I don't think any of us has said we dislike the concept, many of us have said we would have one in our garage but alongside an unmolested original. Everyone has their own opinion on some of the design aspects which no doubt if they were commissioning the project would have changed.
As for the power an XK engine can produce I think with modern materials and CAD assisted machining an XK engine can produce any sort of power a Nissan engine is capable of producing but being initially an 80 year old design there are not many people who are going to start with this XK block and head as a base line compared to taking a 2JZ engine which is less then 30 years old. The XK engine stopped being manufactured when the JZ engine was first being made. There are also possibly more JZ engines lying around than XK engines.

When it comes to resale value, a car is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay, which again comes down to personal preference and whether you want a resto or original car. Never been into matching numbers myself. Bit snobbish to not like or buy a car because the numbers don't correspond to what came out of the factory. Restomods fetch a lot of money but from my experience this is just as they have been finished and they are practically a new car. Like all new cars prices then drop as why would you pay more for a car secondhand when you can go and have one built to your own restomod spec for less? Whereas an original old car is only original once. It can not be reproduced and numbers are declining so prices will always go up depending on the market. Some years classic car prices climb beyond the true market value and the following year they drop. I think this is happening with classic cars at the moment but they will level out and rise again in a couple of years. Owners of original cars do tend to be older people. I am 63 and my sons in their twenties would both prefer a more modern car but that is also down to the cost. Why pay £30k for my S Type when they can buy a modern Audi for less than £10k run it into the ground and throw it away. Owning an older Jaguar to me is a hobby, a past time, a joy to drive and show off. It keeps me occupied at the weekends. I sold my Lotus Seven, which I raced several years ago and now enjoy driving sedately. If I want to drive fast I jump in my Jaguar XF which has all the power and speed I need to lose my licence if I wish to do so.

Although old cars are owned by old people they tend to buy cars of their era. So I own an S type because my father had a 1960 Mk2 and it brings back a lot of child hood memories. When I go to shows there are middle aged people there with Fast Fords from their child hoods, Capris, Sierras, Fiestas and their prices are going through the roof.

Everyone to their own so stop the bickering and accept everyone is different and has their own point of view.

 

Indeed, to which you are entitled as I am to mine. All they are is opinions. There is no accounting for taste. Your insertion of the word "vulgar" is not part of the definition of a Bitsa in UK, SA, AUS etc. slang.

One of the reasons older people tend to be in the collector car game is they have the money whereas the youth generally don't with some very obvious exceptions. I would love to have Mr Bieber's tax problems or Kim Kardashian's heaven help us.

 

Cass ~ I agree with you re matching numbers. I would not care less if my S Type did not have matching numbers. It would in no way affect my enjoyment of the vehicle. Where it does really matter is with exotic models of a brand where very few units were built. Like an Aston Zagato or short chassis Volante.

When I went out looking for my S Type all I was looking for was a straight car with a rust free shell. When I finally found it I bought it. Had no clue of the numbers at the time. Had zero rust to repair. Even the sills were completely rust free. Once stripped & media blasted had a good look everywhere with a borescope. Then blasted Glasurit Porsche self healing primer into all those cavities followed by Tectyl.

 

My taste ~ love it in the light metallic green. Indeed a pity that it does not have a proper Bentley grill.

 

Jeff ~ something that might interest you. The late Sam Tingle's 1925 Bentley 3 litre from Rhodesia (his ownership). Inherited by my buddy Phil Johnson who married his daughter. Now in Minneapolis. Phil moved from SA to Minneapolis with Donaldson Filtration.

 

I wonder if he realises he has that flying cap on back to front. I suppose whilst driving that he doesn't give a damn and no one is looking at him but looking at the car.

 

LOL! ~ With your background you would notice that. Phil's the kind of guy who would do that on purpose to achieve a laugh out of people. One of the nicest people you could hope to meet. Keen rower & cyclist. Oxford and Cambridge boat race & all that.

 

It's to improve his aerodynamics.

 

At some point it ceases to become a Jaguar and becomes a Kit Car or a Nascar. Chevy and Ford crate motors are inexpensive so they are popular. Put them in old Chevys and Fords. Unfortunately, even that gets confused as I just saw a beautifully restored 1951 Pickup with a Chevy crate motor! Why not put an F-Type six or even the v8 in the older Jags and preserve the heritage? When I see a restomod that's maybe 10 or 20% original. Why not just buy a new car?

 

That should have said FORD pickup

 

The reason why the GM LS V8's are one of the most desirable engines to use on so many cars is simple, they are faster, lighter, reliable, and there are so many aftermarket companies making so many performance parts and parts to enable them to be used to swap into other cars.. The reason why a Jaguar V8 is not used often is that they do not put that much power down, heavier weight, not as reliable, expensive, and since there are few if any aftermarket performance options nor parts to enable a swap to be done easily you will need to spend even more on custom parts to install them so you have to be a die hard Jag owner that wants everything Jag under the hood. If you were to put a Jaguar V8 the power would be much less horsepower, the car would not handle as well with the heavier weight, and getting the ECU customized to match the application, etc. is not easy; you end up spending a huge amount more for less reliability and performance.

A new car is boring and customizing a classic provides more benefit, you get the style, unique looks and gain the power that the Jaguars never had so you get the best of both worlds. I would rather have both the classic looks and the modern power and features. That enables me to not worry about how many miles I put on the car as it can go anywhere reliably.

Regarding a Ford truck, some people still prefer the GM powerplant as it is lighter and will provide more power for the price. Ford has been behind for years and only recently with their new Coyote V8 did they get some decent power but that engine is wide, still heavier so it is not an easy engine to swap.

 

Only the Americans can put a 1000hp V8 engine in a 3 ton truck and think it cool. 1960s Jaguars should be about originality not power. Style not handling, Cruising not racing unless you are on a track..
An original 1960s Jaguar will still keep up with modern traffic on A and B roads as well as Motorways.
Seriously I am 63 why do I want to drive a 1960s Jaguar S type at 150 mph and scream away from traffic lights doing a 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. At my age I want time to go slower not quicker. I am not in a rush to get where I am eventually going quicker. If you drive slower it gives pedestrians more time to admire your car. Drive fast and loud and they just think you have something growing out of your forehead that should be between your legs.

 

Everyone has their own desires for our cars. The reality is that less people are into numbers matching and stock restorations. People into stock can whine but there are less people whom will spend the money to restore it to stock; today more people will spend the money for a restomod. Some still like stock like you so there is no right way but both camps are what is keeping these cars on the road like it not.

 

True everyone has their own taste and opinion but..........
I don't think LESS people are into matching numbers but we are dying off and new younger people are coming in with a like for the old look and upgraded engines. Problem here is the more they restomod they less matching number cars there are.
Everyone has their own taste which is why Subaru will make a stock car with a small engine and cloth seats then beside it on a smaller run they will have the same model with a sod off Turbo engine and rally springs. But would a restomoder take a stock Subaru and then put hours of effort into it and a shed full of money trying to shove a V8 under the bonnet to make it go faster than the already sorted rally version. No.they would go and buy the already produced rally version. So why do this to a 1960s Mk2 Jaguar? If you want an upgraded, faster, more comfortable, better handling, more economic Jaguar buy a new one. If it is looks you want buy a 1960s Jaguar and live with it.

 

There is no global trend toward restomods. That's why old brand owners clubs are flourishing. The auction houses are doing well other than the Covid effect etc.

 

Sorry Cass, I want both and love my Jag I also have driven my Jag in 5 years over 200,000 miles and that light weight aluminum block/head V8 enables me to daily drive it reliably try doing that with a stock Jag and even if it could be reliable which it would not be it is just too slow for my desires.

Yes there are still people whom like stock but that population is dying off with less and less younger people following that passion.

The global trend is away from gasoline cars in general. The reality is that by 2035 my state will ban all new cars from being gasoline and worldwide that will be the trend as they push electric, etc. Thus anyone whom likes a classic is cool with me but my taste is still more towards high performance and restomods. More of the US is going away from numbers matching and more to restomods. As time goes on anyone whom spends the money to keep cool gasoline cars on the road should get a thumbs up as more of the general population will not be keeping the passion alive unless they are cars guys and that is both stock and restomods... The "Project Utah" shows that even in the UK the big money is increasingly going to restomods...

 

As we keep saying Everyone is different. In the UK we have laws that govern what you can do to a car and still keep it street legal. There are more garages in the UK that restore classic cars than retormod them. Project Utah is an exception, not the rule, in the UK. I could take you to a different classic car show every weekend that would be filled with 200 plus classic cars and not a single retromod in sight. If a classic car has been altered generally there is a group of enthusiasts stood around it saying "That's not right, That's not original. Why has he done that?" We have a culture called "Kit cars". These are copies of classic cars such as MGs, Lotus Sevens, Cobras, GT40s, Jaguar SS and others. These cars although "Kit Cars" are generally built in someones garage over many years with all sorts of parts from different manufacturers, Engines, running gear, brakes but the shell looks like the original Model. They are then subjected to a vigorous department of transport test to see that they comply with modern road laws. If they pass they are often given what we call a "Q" plate to signify they are a radically altered or home made vehicle. The majority of your USA restomods would never be able to pass this test and therefore would not be allowed on the roads of the UK. Your S Type is a prime example. Because the engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes have been altered you would struggle to get that on the road in the UK without breaking the law. When I watch KINDIG customs and they take a 1950s American thing, Cut the chassis out, put all new running gear and brakes in, change the steering, cut the roof down, Put a different engine and gearbox, a complete new and different interior, new lights all around, new bumpers and chrome, I look at it and think "Where is the soul of the original vehicle". Sorry not for me.
If you are interested you can read more about the UK laws on radically altered vehicles here. https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registrat...tered-vehicles