MKI / MKII S type 240 340 & Daimler 1955 - 1967

Two Part Question - Spark Plug Wires and Timing

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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 10:41 AM
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Default Two Part Question - Spark Plug Wires and Timing

Morning all,

Thought I would take up less space and ask 2 in 1

So:

1. what spark plug wires (HT Leads) would you reccomend?

2. Im positive that the Original Owner threw in the timing assembly into the refurbished block, and when i fit my head im worried the holes in the cam will not line up with the holes in the timing gears - so is it "ok" to manually turn them within the chain? (loosen the chain and turn them to be aligned) - how do i know when i am at TDC? (Cylender 1 is the one closest to the rear correct?)

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 02:55 PM
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You will need this tool to time the camshafts before installing the head.
The front of the camshafts have a "Key" in them that the tool fits into.

After the timing procedure is complete, very slowly and carefully rotate the engine by hand to make sure none of the valves come in contact with a piston, it's what is called an "interference engine".
If you turn the engine too fast, even by hand, you may bend one of the valves if the timing is out.

Read the manual, understand the cam timing procedure and follow it carefully.
Come back then if you have any questions.

I use this method with a washer on any engine to find TDC.
It works very well when the head is off, and in the photos he's got this rather serious pointer, but I just used a coat hanger wire that was sharpened on the end to a fine point.
I think you may find if you use the timing mark on the damper, it will be close enough.
I couldn't find a video unfortunately.
Scroll down until you come to the photo with the washer sitting on the piston.

How to Accurately Determine Piston TDC

Note, when timing a cam or cams, it doesn't matter if you use piston 1 or 6, it's not like ignition where one piston is on exhaust and the other is on intake.
If you put the engine on TDC using the damper (crank shaft pulley) both #1 and #6 will be at TDC.
Once you have used the tool to align both cams, the cam timing determines "exhaust" and "compression"
This is so because the cams turn 1/2 the speed of the crank on a 4 cycle engine. (and yes, I say for "4 cycle", others like to say "4 stroke").

At any rate, use the tool to align the cams with the engine on TDC, that's all you have to worry about for now.
 

Last edited by JeffR1; Feb 26, 2025 at 03:14 PM.
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 03:25 PM
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1. what spark plug wires (HT Leads) would you recommend?

It depends on what distributor you plan on running.
If you are going to have a points distributor, then 1965 Jaguar XKE ignition wires from any Auto Parts store will be fine.
If you are going to install a electronic distributor, then asked the Auto Parts store for 1984 Jaguar XJ6 S3 ignition wire set. NGK, Denso and Bosch have good reputations.
If you want to shop on line try RockAuto.com
Rgds
David
 

Last edited by David84XJ6; Feb 26, 2025 at 03:29 PM.
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 03:55 PM
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If he has the "thread in" type distributor, he'll need these and solid core wires.
He can then use resistor caps or plugs, but not both.






 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
You will need this tool to time the camshafts before installing the head.
The front of the camshafts have a "Key" in them that the tool fits into.

After the timing procedure is complete, very slowly and carefully rotate the engine by hand to make sure none of the valves come in contact with a piston, it's what is called an "interference engine".
If you turn the engine too fast, even by hand, you may bend one of the valves if the timing is out.

Read the manual, understand the cam timing procedure and follow it carefully.
Come back then if you have any questions.

I use this method with a washer on any engine to find TDC.
It works very well when the head is off, and in the photos he's got this rather serious pointer, but I just used a coat hanger wire that was sharpened on the end to a fine point.
I think you may find if you use the timing mark on the damper, it will be close enough.
I couldn't find a video unfortunately.
Scroll down until you come to the photo with the washer sitting on the piston.

How to Accurately Determine Piston TDC
Thanks, will read the linked information, so i have the tool (or at least i ordered it from a UK supplier and its at my cousin's house, he will bring it over in April when he visits).
As previously shared theres a block in my car but no head, i obtained a spare seized engine for the head.
I have noticed that the timing gears on my installed block in the car :
intake side, the holes are at 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock
exhaust side - the holes are at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, with cylinders 1 and 6 at the top (or there abouts).

 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
If he has the "thread in" type distributor, he'll need these and solid core wires.
He can then use resistor caps or plugs, but not both.

I ordered a new coil, the car came with 2 points style distributors, i have no idea if either work but all (coil and dizzy) have some sort of screw in type connector for the leads.

Ill post photos when i get off work.

P
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord_P
Thanks, will read the linked information, so i have the tool (or at least i ordered it from a UK supplier and its at my cousin's house, he will bring it over in April when he visits).
As previously shared theres a block in my car but no head, i obtained a spare seized engine for the head.
I have noticed that the timing gears on my installed block in the car :
intake side, the holes are at 1 o'clock and 7 o'clock
exhaust side - the holes are at 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock, with cylinders 1 and 6 at the top (or there abouts).
You have to read the manual, the sprocket gears for each cam have internal teeth where you adjust the matching plates to the teeth to time the cams once they're lined up with the tool.
Don't worry about the where the holes are on the other engine, you have to start from scratch.
The bottom chain also has to be tensioned properly before you start adjusting the top chain _ you may use a pair of needle nose plyers for this and a screw driver to tension the top chain.
There is also another special tool for this, but you can do with out it.

SBS1265 Timing Chain Adjuster Tool XK Engine | Martin Robey

Down load the manual here if you haven't done so.

MK1 & MK11 'HOW TO' Quick links - Jaguar Forums - Jaguar Enthusiasts Forum
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 04:25 PM
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Got the tool already, and the donwload links are dead now. but my kid got me the service manual for my birthday this weekend.
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 08:09 PM
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So this is in the car rn





missing the bottom pulley so finding TDC is tricky

and as you can see, the cogs are not in the correct orientation
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 08:21 PM
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And this is my dizzy cap and coil… seems I have a mismatch


 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 09:09 PM
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You remove the snap rings on each side so you can place the mounting holes where ever want and where they need to be.
The centre of the cogs separate from the cogs themselves and are mounted on very fine teeth-like splines.
The snap ring on the left can't be on that particular position as it's in the way of the bolt, it can go anywhere, but not there.

Read the manual and it will all make sense, even if you have a Haynes manual, which is incomplete on many things, the cam timing procedure is in there.

You're also going to have to get the crank pully to find TDC, or use that "washer" method in the link I gave you.
Note that the washer will not fit in between the dome of the piston and the bore, so any small piece of brass will work in that area.

You're still going to have to find a way to turn the crank, but you can if you have the big bolt for the crank.
If you use the bolt to turn the crank, get a bunch of washers so the the bolt tightens up against the washers, you don't want the bolt to bind up on the end of its threads when it bottoms out in the crank.

EDIT: I see the crank bolt is in place, you just need a number of washers.
You may also want to remove the timing cover to make sure that all is correct with the chain guides and tensioner, now's the time.
Look for worn chain guides and tensioner.




About your distributor:
You can use that coil with solid wires, you'll just have to get the "crimp" type connection for that coil, that's all. (and the correct boot of course)
The other end you would use the brass washer and screw.
You poke the wire through the washer and "splay" the ends of the wire evenly around the circumference.
 

Last edited by JeffR1; Feb 26, 2025 at 09:27 PM.
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
You remove the snap rings on each side so you can place the mounting holes where ever want and where they need to be.
The centre of the cogs separate from the cogs themselves and are mounted on very fine teeth-like splines.
The snap ring on the left can't be on that particular position as it's in the way of the bolt, it can go anywhere, but not there.

Read the manual and it will all make sense, even if you have a Haynes manual, which is incomplete on many things, the cam timing procedure is in there.

You're also going to have to get the crank pully to find TDC, or use that "washer" method in the link I gave you.
Note that the washer will not fit in between the dome of the piston and the bore, so any small piece of brass will work in that area.

You're still going to have to find a way to turn the crank, but you can if you have the big bolt for the crank.
If you use the bolt to turn the crank, get a bunch of washers so the the bolt tightens up against the washers, you don't want the bolt to bind up on the end of its threads when it bottoms out in the crank.



About your distributor:
You can use that coil with solid wires, you'll just have to get the "crimp" type connection for that coil, that's all. (and the correct boot of course)
The other end you would use the brass washer and screw.
You poke the wire through the washer and "splay" the ends of the wire evenly around the circumference.
forgive my idiocy… I use “regular” spark plug leads but cut the end off the coil end and feed them into the screw in parts?
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord_P
forgive my idiocy… I use “regular” spark plug leads but cut the end off the coil end and feed them into the screw in parts?
If I'm reading you right, yes, but the wires can't be the carbon/resistor wire wire type.
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by JeffR1
If I'm reading you right, yes, but the wires can't be the carbon/resistor wire wire type.
im too dumb for this… don’t suppose you can recommend a part on Amazon or something?
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 11:29 PM
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https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...plug+wire,7224

These are correct for mid 60's points distributor. You can cut push on ends off and install screw on ends for distributor, or get a push on distributor cap.

https://mossmotors.com/jes-9857-dist...and-components ( small parts as needed)

https://mossmotors.com/xke-7832-distributor-6-cylinder (you could just get push on distributor cap)

https://mossmotors.com/28-0368-ignit...ap-aftermarket (original copper wire for points distributor)

Rgds
David
 

Last edited by David84XJ6; Feb 26, 2025 at 11:59 PM.
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 11:36 PM
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duplicate
 

Last edited by David84XJ6; Feb 26, 2025 at 11:38 PM.
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by David84XJ6
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...plug+wire,7224

These are correct for mid 60's points distributor. You can cut push on ends off and install screw on ends for distributor, or get a push on distributor cap.

https://mossmotors.com/jes-9857-dist...and-components ( small parts as needed)

https://mossmotors.com/xke-7831-spar...nts-6-cylinder (small parts as needed)

https://mossmotors.com/xke-7832-distributor-6-cylinder (you could just get push on distributor cap)

Rgds
David
super star!
 
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Old Feb 26, 2025 | 11:49 PM
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Also note that the large nut on the timing chain tensioner sprocket is a Whitworth size.
 
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Old Feb 28, 2025 | 08:33 AM
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For my 2 bob or 20 cents worth on the engine head and camshaft timing.
Read and re read the workshop manual until it hurts and re-read it again. You really need to understand the process.
Assembling a cylinder head and sorting out camshaft timing is the most critical thing you can do on the engine.
I have done numerous cylinder head and engine rebuilds over 50+ years and am currently putting an XK 2.4 engine back together.
I have requalified my memory with a quick read through/refresher on the workshop manual.
It saves lots of things like bent valves etc.
 
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Old Feb 28, 2025 | 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac
For my 2 bob or 20 cents worth on the engine head and camshaft timing.
Read and re read the workshop manual until it hurts and re-read it again. You really need to understand the process.
Assembling a cylinder head and sorting out camshaft timing is the most critical thing you can do on the engine.
I have done numerous cylinder head and engine rebuilds over 50+ years and am currently putting an XK 2.4 engine back together.
I have requalified my memory with a quick read through/refresher on the workshop manual.
It saves lots of things like bent valves etc.
I did sit and have an RTFM session yesterday, then after work I went and fiddled with the donor engine - wow! what a clever design, and thank you all for your patience with me!

So now i fully understand how the timing works

Also - I think I will cheat and get a push fit Dizzy Cap to make sourcing HT Leads simpler in the future.

So, just need to finish lapping the valves and I can begin reassembly.
 
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