In at the Deep End, SCP Network Failure
 

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...93441942ce.jpg
Hi All,

Always wanted an S-Type, bought one at auction Wednesday, so you'll be hearing a lot from me no doubt.

Anyway, bought without keys just mech-only key that operates door and ignition (no transponder or fobs), trailer-ed it home.

55 Plate, Sport 2.5L I have V130 of SDD.

Column locked, boot not opening electrically or with key, battery flat, seat out, battery changed.

Plugged in SDD, no comms with entire SCP Network as above

Going to start unplugging modules to see if one is bringing down network,

Anyone know any short-cuts?

thanks

Mark

Whatever you do, don't attempt even reading codes with IDS/SDD unless you have a healthy, fully charged battery. Do NOT attempt reflashing without a hefty power supply as well. The spec is something like 55A and low ripple. Yes, really.

I'd avoid IDS/SDD completely at this stage and instead fall back on (say) an elm327 which at least will do no harm (but unplug it when not in use).

That said, you should have CAN modules...

Obviously, get & consult in depth the workshop manual, all the tech guides, etc.

Oh goodness yes, listen to JagV8's advice. From electrical troubleshooting 101:

Always begin any electrical troubleshooting with a fully charged battery.

You will likely end up chasing your tail if troubleshooting with a dead battery. Details here of how to charge the battery if your key won't open the trunk:

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...ng-port-87362/

Hi Mark
If you do not have a working key you need a locksmith with the correct key program to program new keys or, a Jaguar dealer. This may solve your problems. But it is expensive. Ring one with your VIN number.

If you have a working key. I have an earlier model so the information may not work for your car. But it is worth removing the fuse that powers the steering column. To see if it will start.

When I bought my car it would sometimes not start. I would have a message “steering column locked.” To bypass this I removed the fuse in the cabin fuse box (near driver's feet). It is fuse number 19 (blue 10 amp) fuse on the early models (may be different on yours). Check your handbook for the fuse location. This made the non start problem disappear. It also disables the automatic steering adjustment. But nothing else.

The steering column lock is a security measure and the car will not start with this message. I believe North American cars do not have the steering column lock feature and won't necessarily understand this problem as they haven't experienced it.

You may have other reasons for this fault, as you have other issues to sort out, but if you try taking the fuse out it might let you start your car.

I hope this works for you.

Paul

Update and more info
 

Thanks everyone who has replied.

More info...
I will not be able to start the car until new keys are programmed. I can't program new keys as this requires communications to the DDCM. So sorting out the SCP Network is paramount. I already charged the old flat battery from the alternator, though the old battery was not holding the charge, hence the new battery. I am not intending to re-program anything (apart from keys) at this stage, just looking to diagnose, so I keep my battery charger connected.

Update..
The SCP network has been tested as per the WM, neither SCP- or SCP+ are shorted to each other, to battery or to ground. I have proven continuity on both legs from the data connector to the drivers door module.

Does anyone know what the resistance should be across SCP- and SCP+ in a healthy network? Cant seem to find that information anywhere.

Thanks

Mark

Hi Mark
This link is for an XJ 2.7 diesel and has resistance at 115 Ohms. But this is not an S Type link.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/x...-fault-199607/

Perhaps these problems will go away when you have keys programmed to your car. But before you go any further. It may not be possible to program keys without a working key. It depends on the PATS system. But I am not an expert with electronic faults. Other forum members may know the answer to this.

Here is a link explaining PATS systems on Ford and it explains that PATS 2 systems cannot be programmed without a key. I hope someone will prove this wrong for you.

https://lost-car-keys-replacement.com/ford/program/

Paul

Hi Mark
This link (below) from Rik881 seems to have solved his no key problem. In post 25 he explains that he got a locksmith to program keys with a SKP900 key programmer. But he has issues with keys not being cut.

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...-173307/page2/


It may be worthwhile contacting him via a personal message. The link is from 2017 so he may not answer. But at least it looks possible to program the keys without starting with any keys at all.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the input.

However, the transponder in the key is static, it does nothing, all key programmers program the car to the key. I can program my keys myself with SDD if and when I resolve the SCP Network issue that she has. All key programmers would need to communicate with the DDCM, as this is done through the SCP Network, no-one can program the keys,

Update....
I have read through the reams of tech information that is out there. It appears that the SCP Network has 3 termination resistors each of 360Ohm. As the network is in a star configuration, the resistors are all paralleled out, so the network should have 120Ohm across SCP+ and SCP- I have checked my network and have recorded 115 Ohm which is close enough. So to recap, the network is not shorted to anything and appears to be terminated correctly, but still no comms..... My oscilloscope arrives friday to view any activity as well as a 30A low ripple power supply.

Anyone, know if one of the main modules (ECM, IC etc) initiates communications meaning that all modules are sitting there waiting for a correct message?

I don't understand the terminology (55 plate) but if post 2003 the cluster is the start point for CAN & SCP modules networks.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.jag...d633bd8d1c.jpg

It means that the vehicle was registered between September 2005 and March 2006

Welcome to the forum Boffy35,
Please post an intro in the new members section when you can.

Thanks Norri , throws me every time .

Could this not be as simple as a non-working OBD device?

If so then chasing the car would be pointless.

BTW other tools can talk SCP.

In my 06 str i got an scp comm failure.for speed....i also got a configuration failure for the audio module....come to find out the audio module is a gateway.....reconfigured the audio module as new and all comms back to normal

An Update...

Well my readings are fine at the connector, resistance to ground when I plug/unplug the three modules with termination resistors is as you'd expect, 360, 240 and 120 Ohm. Voltages as you'd expect, no shorts or open. I bought a cheap oscilloscope, and I can "see" messages on the network.

British Diagnostics, from where I bought the MongoosePro JLR, have been totally absent and not replying to any messages I have left for them, happy to take your money, disappear when something is wrong, not what I expected from a UK supplier.

Been in touch with Drew Technologies, very helpful, uploaded a log file to them, they confirm that no response from any node on the SCP network.

Waiting now for a VXDIAG Nano to come from china, cheapest way of "seeing" the SCP Network to prove my MPJLR is knackered on first use, bummer!

UPDATE:

I will start a new thread with specific questions after finding out additional data.

I have now tested with three diagnostic tools.

A genuine moongoose using SDD 131 and 155; a VXDIAG NANO using SDD 155 and a borrowed SNAP-ON diagnostic tool

All SDD disagnostics fail to communicate on the SCP Network. The snap-on tool picked up most of the modules on the network, all of the main ones except the FEM, allowed me to clear the DTC's in each module and allowed activation of actuators.

Global Open works, everything electrical works in the car except the boot (trunk) release. The inter-module SCP Network comms are definitely working.

My gut is telling me that the ECU may hold incorrect node ID's for the other modules and that SDD looks at the ECU for the addresses to initiate comms, whilst the snap-on tool just scans the network for active modules.

Did you ever resolve this? I have a 2005 diesel S-Type in today with similar SCP network fault. I have tested network and its all tested OK and I can see messages on scope, but SDD won't communicate with modules on the SCP network. All the resistance checks across ground, power etc give text book results although the simple SCP-/SCP+ comes in a little low at 110ohms. It has an intermittence locking fault on the left rear door. If you did get any answers I'd appreciate any input, or I can see hours of testing ahead.

this was the following thread ,
there are some very helpful instructions and attachments that should help you .

https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/s...etwork-217312/

Thanks Andy, I'd already seen that and I'm familiar with the system and testing, just this one appears to defy logic. Looks like a long day following all the twisted pairs through the loom.