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Hello. I have a 2007 S-Type 3.0L. I'm currently having problems keeping the inside of the windows clear in the winter weather. I have been leaving the system in Auto and leaving the AC on (default mode), but all of the windows fog up. There is plenty of heat, and when I select defrost the windows eventually clear, but when Auto is selected again, it fogs up once again. The recirc switch is off of course. Any help would be appreciated.
What is the ambient temperature when this happens? IIRC, when ambient is above 27F and Auto is selected, the AC runs at a low level to held remove moisture from the cabin. In theory, below that value, the ambient moisture level is low enough there's no need to dry the air further.
What does the exterior temperature show on the control panel, compared to the actual outside temperature? If the ambient sensor is reading low, the AC will not run when needed.
Can you duplicate the fogging in the comfort of your driveway? If so, on a day above 27F, with the engine at idle and Auto selected, look at the face of the pulley on the AC compressor. See if it is cycling on and off as normal. Perhaps the problem could be something like a refrigerant leak or other AC issue that has cropped up since the last time the weather was hot. In other words, the AC may not be working properly but this was not noticeable during cool weather, other than the fogging of the windows.
By chance is the problem more prevalent in stop and go traffic? On my '02 V6, the heater action is marginal when the engine is at low RPM. Seems to work fine at cruise speed when the RPM is higher and the engine is actually working. But when I slow for a stoplight, for example, I can feel the heater output drop off dramatically. As soon as I accelerate, I can feel the heat output return to normal. You did mention the heater output feels normal, but maybe that observation was at cruise? Meanwhile, maybe the drop in heat output isn't as noticeable on your car (especially if you're bundled up), and you've got somewhat cold air blowing on the windshield.
Well...unfortunately, cleaning the sensor didn't help at all. Wishful thinking for sure! As I played around with the various controls in the climate control system, I'm able to confirm that the defroster works and the face vents, and footwell vents work too. The only thing that I'm not sure about is the recirc function. When I put it into Recirc mode (holding recirc for two seconds and waiting for the double beep), I cannot hear anything happen. No noise of a flap/door moving and no sounds of an electric motor. I suspect the door might be stuck closed. Also, when I put it in Ram Air mode (system off, face vents on), there is no air from the face vents at highway speed. I suspect there is no fresh air entering the car. Does that sound reasonable?
The temperature this evening was 25F on my drive home. It should be warmer tomorrow, so I will have a look at the compressor. And yes, the outside temperature display is accurate.
When I put it into Recirc mode (holding recirc for two seconds and waiting for the double beep), I cannot hear anything happen. No noise of a flap/door moving and no sounds of an electric motor. I suspect the door might be stuck closed. Also, when I put it in Ram Air mode (system off, face vents on), there is no air from the face vents at highway speed. I suspect there is no fresh air entering the car. Does that sound reasonable?
Ooh, that sounds entirely reasonable. I played around with the recirc button on my '02 this morning. One thing I quickly noticed was the windows fogged when in recirc mode. So definitely investigate that further.
I was not aware of "Ram Air" mode, but when I tried this per your description, I got nothing. I believe my recirc door is working properly, so this may not be a valid test.
However, I did notice some results that should be easy for you to compare. Engine warmed up and turned off, but then key back to Run without starting. Turn off the radio and squelch any farts so you can hear faint sounds. Put your head down by the glove box if needed to hear better:
1) With the fan manually selected to full speed, press the recirc button once. The overall volume of the fan remained fairly constant, but the pitch changed. As the recirc door opened, I believe I was hearing the rush of air at the fan inlet. Press recirc again to close the door. The pitch changed back to the original sound as air was drawn from outside.
2) Manually select the fan to low speed and press recirc again. Now you're not listening for the fan, but the actuator and door. I never heard any whirring of the actuator, but I did hear an initial click. I think the click was due to slack being take up in the linkage and actuator gearbox. Press recirc again to close the door. No click going closed, but I definitely heard a thump after several seconds as the door fully closed.
Try those simple tests and report back. Here's an interesting thread showing a recirc door with a broken tab where the actuator linkage attaches:
If your door was broken like that, I suspect the door may lift up with the fan running and always draw in recirc air, at least partially. You'd need everything intact to hold the door closed. In addition, if the actuator was good but the external linkage had failed, there may be not be much noise as the actuator is barely doing any work.
While poking around for info on the recirc door, I found several mentions of the cabin air filter potentially causing fogging of the windows. If clogged, it may be restricting the flow of fresh air. Apparently the filter can hold moisture, too. Either problem could overwhelm the system's ability to removed moisture from the cabin.
Thanks again for the help. I really appreciate the time you have taken to help me out. The cabin (pollen) filter... I noticed that I have not changed it for two years and 21k km, and Jaguar says to change it every 16K km. Interestingly, I noticed in the Passport to Service, Jaguar recommends changing the cabin filter twice as often as other models. Maybe It does cause issues with misting/fogging. Anyways, I changed it today and I will report back soon. I'll go through the other tests that you mentioned as well. I hope I don't have a broken recirc door. That looks like a pain to fix.
I hope I don't have a broken recirc door. That looks like a pain to fix.
If you do find the door broken or the actuator dead, I bet you could temporarily secure the door in the fresh air position. That should get you through the cold weather. A repair could wait until warmer weather.
I found something interesting this morning. Yesterday, I replaced the filter, but didn't get around to replacing all the fasteners until this morning, when I had an idea. I decided to remove the new filter and have a look inside. I noticed a black plastic vent/door the other side of a fine screen. I thought this must be the recirc blend door and it was in the closed position. i started the car and tried a variety of HVAC settings as the car warmed up, and nothing I did would open this door. Perhaps the actuator has failed in the closed position? As you say, I can probably remove an access panel under the glove box to access the door actuator and jam it open with a piece of an old hockey stick for now. Hopefully the door isn't broken like in the YouTube video.
I'll go ahead and try out your suggested tests as well, and I'll report back.
That's a great video. It shows the motor very well. I'll have a look this week. Fingers crossed the motor has had it, and that there isn't anything broken! I'll let you know.
Yes, I never throw out old hockey sticks. They have a million uses!!
Fingers crossed the motor has had it, and that there isn't anything broken!...
So I gets to thinking.
If the linkage separated, wouldn't the door fall down? It might lift up due to suction with the fan running, but should rest down due to gravity. But if I understand correctly, you saw it from the filter side in the up (recirc) position, presumably with the fan off.
If so, that would point towards an actuator failed in the recirc position with an undamaged door.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing. If the door was broken, it would just hang down loose due to gravity, but it is definitely stuck closed. The actuator must have failed and is keeping the door shut tight. I'll have a look this week.
Item #3 is labeled as the recirculation motor, although it doesn't seem to be pointing to the correct spot.
Jaguar #XR8577888
Poke around online with that number and you will see several vendors have it. Look a little closer, and you will also see a Ford oval logo. That means this is one of those many instances of garden variety Ford parts sold in an expensive Jaguar box. For example, take a look at this Jaguar item on eBay:
Note the Jaguar part number, Ford oval (partially obscured), and even a convenient Ford part number:
(Image stolen from eBay)
The Ford number:
YW4H-19E616-AB
Ford part numbers get a little confusing. Usually the last two digits don't mean much for most components. Don't hold me to it, but typically if you can match the rest, you're good. (This does NOT apply to computer modules, which typically have to be an exact match.) Oh anyways, that Ford number may give you a lot more options when searching for a new actuator.
If access isn't too bad, and you're willing to gamble a little bit of your time, you might be able to disassemble the failed motor and clean it up. The fault might be something like a dirty commutator on the motor, or something simple like that. Your call if worth trying.
If you do find a Ford part that works, please be sure to add the info to this thread to help others:
I'm learning lots here! The Ford part number issue is good to know. I noticed the Ford oval logo on the recirc door/flap by the pollen filter. I guess Jaguar raided the Ford parts bin for these cars. Having the two parts numbers will definitely be helpful.
I tried the two tests that you suggested and neither one gave me any indication that the recirc door was functioning. There was no change in the fan noise or the sounds of something moving. I should have time today to poke around under the dash board and see what I can find. I'll let you know!
Karl,
I removed the lower trim panel to have a look at the motor and I'm happy to say nothing is broken. The metal rod is connected on both ends. So that's good news. I went ahead and ordered a new-old-stock motor on eBay using the Ford number as the Jaguar number didn't match. The Jaguar part number is XR8 26344. I'm sure the part number has changed as it doesn't match the one you gave me. I was able to see the Ford part number on my motor and it matched the number you gave me, although mine ends with AA rather than AB, and the one I bought ends with FA. Either way, the Ford numbers all match YW4H-19E616. I'll see if I can get the old one working and keep it as a spare.
So the only challenge now is getting the old one out. I definitely will have to do some disassembly to gain enough room to replace it.
As it turns out, accessing the faulty motor was as easy as removing the glove box. Once the glove box was out, the small electric motor was in plain view. I removed the black actuator (lever) from the motor, unscrewed two screws, removed the electrical connection, and out it came. Once the motor was disconnected from the metal rod, the door flopped down into the open position. The NOS motor arrives tomorrow, so I should be able to put this project behind me fairly soon. I should add that nothing is broken. That was a relief! It must be the little motor with Johnson written on it that is faulty.
Once the motor was disconnected from the metal rod, the door flopped down into the open position…
Just finished a meal of earthworms and nightcrawlers. I’m literally waiting with bated breath.
Before installing the new motor, what happens if you run the fan on high? Will the door lift up due to suction or will gravity keep it down? Just thinking of the next guy, if we can suggest disconnecting the linkage as a temporary “fix” while waiting on parts.
I replaced mine twice. The first time i plugged it in and checked operation before attaching the rod. Big mistake because the motor is pre calibrated and i messed that up. Hook everything up before sending power to it. You can guess why the twice was necessary
[QUOTE=kr98664;2889789]Just finished a meal of earthworms and nightcrawlers. I’m literally waiting with bated breath.
Before installing the new motor, what happens if you run the fan on high? Will the door lift up due to suction or will gravity keep it down? Just thinking of the next guy, if we can suggest disconnecting the linkage as a temporary “fix” while waiting on parts.[/QUOT
gravity will let it flop down as i found out. You can prop the door shut but be careful as the plastic is thin in some spots and can be broken by bumps while driving. Easier to wedge a piece of cardboard into intake rectangle from inside
I replaced mine twice. The first time i plugged it in and checked operation before attaching the rod. Big mistake because the motor is pre calibrated and i messed that up. Hook everything up before sending power to it. You can guess why the twice was necessary
Ooh, good to know. The service manual kinda, sorta mentions this, but not very clearly. All it say is:
"NOTE: During installation make sure the actuator is fully meshed with the driven flap before tightening the bolts."
In my over-inflated opinion, there should be a clear warning not to electrically test the actuator before bolting it in place. That's a pretty common procedure for a mechanic to try, but in this case will cause grief.
The full service manual is at a link near the bottom of this page:
Foggy windows
