X2 to ChrisX...who so happens to be my psychiatrist. Hi Chris! Look...No Meds.

 

Bodyman, you summed it up perfectly. OP, listen to Bodyman. He gives very valuable advice.

 

Hello all, First I want to say thank you for all the advice. I really appreciate it! Here's the deal, the insurance company will pay 18.5k to total the car, 16k if I want to keep it, (salvage). I have a repair shop that can do the work for 12k and is willing to put that in writing. The adjuster came out and said it would be 14.7k to fix. The insurance company threshold is 75%. If my math is correct, 75% of 18.5k is 13.8k. 75% of 16k is 12k. At either figure, 12k is within their threshold, (or right there). They're also claiming that if I got into another accident and got hurt, they would be liable if the repair work was "faulty". This to me is BS. The car is immaculent. (was). I'll get some pictures uploaded. I'm going to get my lawyer involved, (he's getting paid, or will get paid). My mechanic mentioned something about a "hold harmless" writ I can have my lawyer draw up for the insurance company. Anyone heard of that? I guess it releases them from any liability if something were to happen due to the repair. Also, I believe there is an insurance arbitrator in the state of AZ which I can go to if I don't agree with the insurance companies assessment. Anyone know anything about that? At any rate, I'm not willing to give up my Jag! Not yet anyway. This truely sucks!!!

 

Sounds to me like you have a good handle on it.

I'll just add that I read an article recently in a trade mag about a case of a new Mercedes and Progessive Insurance. It is a long story but the court case that ensued determined that an insurance company estimate is NOT a blueprint for the repair. It is only an internal document for insurance company purposes in determining an "approximate" dollar figure for repair work. The insurance company is not in the collision repar bussiness. It was determined that the repair facility has the trained expertise to determine what repair procedures are followed and the related costs thereof. It was a high end shop that specializes in Benzs and if I remember correctly they elected to repair some sections rather than cut out and replace.

In other words, if the shop says they can fix the car in such and such a manner that is an accepted repair in the industry and gaurantees the work..the insurance company can wipe their butt with their estimate.

BTW, I personally have Progressive and am looking to change. They are like the Devil himself with some of the practices. Lately they are offering discounts if you install a transponder so they can spy on your driving habits. Yeah...I'm gonna line right up for that one!

 

bklynchris, Oct. 1996, I was hit head on by a tipsy driver..(he was .07 bac) and slow speed, I saw it coming and was able to pull over to the right near a curb and stop. The car was an 86 Olds 442 and State Farm wanted to total it. I argued with my agent and he finally gave in and allowed the car to be repaired. As previously stated, insurance companies are quick to pull the trigger..less costly for them..than try to work things out. It took a couple of months...waiting for parts, etc., but in the end all worked out ok.


Another note on insuring cars..be sure your car is insured for it's proper value. Shortly after I got married I checked out my wife's insurance company...Mercury, and they were much cheaper than State Farm for both vehicles..welllll..they wanted to "value" my Olds for only $1000...B.S.
I got an independent professional appraiser to look at it and he came in at $8600. Of course, Mercury had to have their own independent appraiser look at it...they valued it at $10,900 and that's what it stayed at. Of course the premiums were only skightly higher, but who cares...

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT !!!!!!!!!! ...You'll win in the end...good luck...

 

Maybe the insurance companies are hiring more adjusters with no experience in the automotive industry. They have a degree, they can push paper and maybe work excel. They don't want to be bothered supervising an actual repair job they don't understand. So ... total it, cut a check, move on.

 

Hi Bodyman, thx for the insight. Would you happen to know what trade mag you saw this article? Also, the date? I'm trying to use everything I can find and I think if they feel I will go to court on them and they see it is a precedent, that might get them to rollover. It couldn't hurt at any rate. Thanks buddy.

 

Plums, actually the big companies are eliminating a lot of appraisers with their DRP shops. The DRP shops write their own and get audited periodically.. in effect doing the job of the appraiser. One appraiser told me they are even starting to have the shops write up totals.

chris, it's called Body Shop Bussiness June 2011 Vol 300 No 6

It's a free publication that I get in the mail. Never subscribed just shows up. Loaded with advertising and geared to the big guys but sometimes something interesting to read. Maybe try Goggleing it. If you don't come up with anything online, shoot me a PM with an address and I can mail it to you. I saved it and remarkably was able to find it in the clutter.

 

I found the website for the mag and they have the whole article in back issues.
Here

An Analysis of Progressive Insurance vs. North State Custom: BodyShop Business - The Body Shop Reference

 

If they are going to pay $18.5K for the car totaled out then why not just get the money and purchase another one? It doesn't make any sense to fix this.....
Let it go and get another one that is just as pristine as the one you had. After all it's just piece of metal no matter how much you love it. You will fall in love again with the next.

 

Right on!

No offense to the OP. Cars are like women.......

 

LOL! Rick, yer hiding that post from Joyce I presume?

 

Good info from Bodyman - I was hoping you'd stop by and weigh in Jim. Good to have a pro in the business give his perspective!

 

Sounds like your mind is made up to keep it.

Glad it seems to only be metal damage and nothing personal.

I will say that my standing advice to clients who had their cars wrecked and then repaired was to sell it as soon as possible after it is fixed.

Over about 25 years and numerous clients with your problem everyone who kept their cars after a total or write off ended up with a money pit of never ending problems and repairs with their cars.

They develop problems with everything, heating, cooling, generators, transmissions, drive lines, engines, electrics, door/trunk locks, windows/doors not seating, hidden frame and body damage/stress...you name it.

Body shops by the very nature of their business down play those 'mechanical' issues that plague cars that are totaled.

The body repairs can often be taken care of but that is really the only thing they deal with and only a part of the 'skin deep' problems that totaled cars develop over time.

The insurance company only covers the repairs for a brief period of time after the initial repairs.

Liability is an ever expanding area of the law and I am surprised to hear of a lifetime warranty on body shop work.

That's a first.

It would be difficult and expensive to enforce.

You are the very rare exception of being offered more or actual value for a car than it appears to cost to replace.

Most insurance companies only offer 66-70% or replacement cost and grind on you to accept it, only grudgingly moving up when confronted with appraisals from dealers or shops independent of their own.

There is no question that the lien holder will be on the check....but you could get the payoff in writing on the banks letterhead, then present it to the insurance company and ask for two checks to be cut. T

The insurance company will mail the check directly to the bank and in fact if they don't split the check it will be mailed to the lien holder first and any balance will be forwarded from them to you.

FYI: All the major insurance companies own most of the "independent" property damage companies as subsidiaries that they ask for evaluations.

FYI 2nd: The only people interested in buying salvage title cars are body shops and people bottom shopping looking for steals at pennies on the dollar 'undamaged' value.

Nor will you ever be able to trade it for anything at a dealer. They won't touch them.

I would also warn you that you are unlikely to get another loan on a salvage titled car or if you do it could only be on the dramatically reduced value of a salvaged car.

FYI 3rd: From my side of the fence of prying money out of insurance companies on behalf of clients I would point out that they are not in the insurance business they are in the money business.

Their money not yours, they hang onto it as long as legally possible, while making it as difficult to collect as possible on the demonstrable evidence that you will accept less and less the longer your they drag your claim out.

The cheapest insurance companies and coverages often ending up costing a lot more to collect from than paying for good extensive coverage from premium companies.

Finally if you have uninsured/under-insured insurance coverage in your State I always asked my clients how much they think they are worth? Getting a million dollars in coverage in those categories is the cheapest way to cover yourself irrespective of what coverage the idiot that hit you has. You set the limits then instead of being stuck with the what ever $25K/$50K limits they have.

This is a serious consideration for cars, like many on this forum, that cost more than most minimum policy limits are these days. And that is before you even get to medical coverage.

Same goes for medical coverage...most catastrophic medical bills in the US are from car accidents...the starting cost for the first week in a hospital is now in the range of $100,000.

Get the most medical insurance coverage possible on your car insurance, it will be only $25-$100 per year to get the maximum coverage.

Then you can raise the deductible of your general health insurance to lower the cost of that which will be a far greater savings than the cost of the auto medical coverage.

My personal and legal advice would be to take the money and run.....fewer headaches in the long run and there are always more 'perfect' undamaged beauties out there to put your time, effort, and love into.

Cut your losses while you have the chance to come out ahead and save yourself a lot of grief.

But unless you are a car salesmen buying and owning cars is rarely rational.

If it was we would, as Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear says, "all be driving VW Golfs".


Good luck,

jamjax

 

Thanks Chris.

Just to be clear, I'm not giving an opinion as to repair it or not. That wouldn't be appropriate having not seen the car or even photos. I was only trying to help the OP with what I know. I just hate to see people get bullied by these insurance companies. Ultimately he will have to make the call. I do know it is easy to say just take the money and buy another car. Not always as easy as it sounds but then arguably much easier than switching women....Rick.

 

Somewhat typical attitude towards autobody shops and damaged vehicles. In reality, what is more likely is people blame every single problem they ever encounter with the car being wrecked. Most things have nothing to do with the accident but hey, I'll get it fixed for free. I can't remember how many times I have had owners report an unrelated problem before repairs even began. I had one guy with a truck tell me the air conditioner didn't work. Even though the accident was in the winter and it wasn't hit anyway near a HVAC component.

Any reputable shop is never going to fluff over damage be it cosmetic or mechanical. There is too much liability involved to just let things go. And why would they? The more damage repaired, the more profit on the job.

As far as the lifetime gaurantee. Any shop that contracts with an insurance company has to gaurantee the work for as long as the customer owns it. So they do exist.

Perhaps things are different in Switzerland.

 

Sucks that you couldn’t enjoy your new car. I’m sorry my friend. Even so, take the money, buy a new car, and get a fresh start. In my experience, a salvage title makes it impossible to get decent auto car insurance quotes.

 

Hi, I am going thru the exact same thing now . Got hit twice in one night, neither my fault. My paint and body shop guy said the insurance co. would most likely total car and I did not want to. So what he did was an estimate with the main items to be repaired kept it down around 8900 dollars and then got the ok from insurance started the fix and as things progress put in for few item with a supplement. Then when they get to painting and starting to put things together he added the bigger supplement items at THAT POINT THE INSURANCE CO. IS NOT GOING TO TOTAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY ALREADY INVESTED NOT ONLY THAT MY GUY SAID THE CANNOT LEGALLY TOTAL THE VEHICLE ONCE IT IS BEING PUT BACK TOGETHER. FOR INSTANCE INSTEAD OF A NEW FENDER HE HAD A METAL GUY BANG IT OUT. LOOKS AS GOOD AS NEW AND HAS NO BONDO,JUST A LITTLE FILLER BUT VERY LITTLE, ALSO A PARTICULAR PART THE POWER STEERING GEAR WHICH WAS BROKE WAS A 4k PIECE BUY IT SELF, THE FIRST ESTIMATE INCLUDED A USED PART FOR 1500 THEN WHEN IT CAN TIME THERE WAS NO SUCH BEAST SO HAD TO BUY NEW ONE CAME IN AT 3500.00. THE INSURANCE ESTIMATOR PLAYS GAMES AND THE BODY SHOP PLAYS RIGHT ALONG AND IF YOU HAVE A GOOD GUY HE CAN BEAT THE INSURANCE CO. AT THERE OWN GAME. I CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME KNOW WHY THEY PLAY THESE GAMES BUT I HAVE EXPERIENCED IT AND HAVE SEEN IT FOR MYSELF. MY CAR HAS BEEN ALMOST COMPLETELY REPAINTED (PROPERLY) I PAID 1k TO FINISH THE JOB AND MAKE IT 99%NEWLY PAINTED AND THE INSURANCE CO. WILL HAVE PAID CLOSE TO 17k FOR REPAIRS TO 2001 XKR. AND THE DAMAGE DID NOT LOOK THAT BAD AT FIRST EITHER. FRONT RIGHT CORNER AND REAR LEFT WHEEL WELL. THE REAR WHEEL WELL AREA WAS 2900-.00 AND THE FRONT RIGHT 14k. IT IS ALL UP TO THE WAY YOUR BODY SHOP GUY PLAYS THE GAME. MY CAR SHOULD BE COMPLETED BY NEXT WED. THIS WEEKEND MESSED THINGS UP BIT SINCE THEY ARE CLOSED FOR 4 DAY BECAUSE thanksgiving, BUT THEY ARE DOING A TERRIFIC JOB AND MIND YOU MY CAR WAS IN GREAT CONDITION BEFORE ACCIDENT IF YOU WERE 10 FEET AWAY YOU DID NOT KNOW IT WAS NOT A NEW CAR. BUT NOW YOU CAN GET A MAGNIFYING GLASS AND THINK IT IS NEW. GEESH THE HEADLIGHT ALONE WAS 1200 ALONE BY THE TIME YOU ADD IN ALL THE CRAP ABOUT CLEANER NOZZLES AND ALL THAT STUFF WHICH IS WORTHLESS FOR KEEPING THE HEAD LIGHT CLEAN. WITH REPAIR IF YOU CAN GET NEW OR RECONDITIONED BUMPERS AND USED METAL PARTS WITHOUT BONDO YOU ARE MUCH BETTER OFF.DON'T LET SHOP USE BONDO! GET A SHOP THAT HAS A METAL WORKER (VERY IMPORTANT) GOOD LUCK, HOPE THINGS WORK OUT. REALIZE THIS TOO, YOU CAN CALL OTHER SHOPS AND ASK THEM HOW THEY COULD GET AROUND TOTALLING THE VEHICLE AND STILL HAVE A GOOD JOB DONE WHEN COMPLETED.

 

Be nice to hear from the OP where this all ended up.

 

My advice... Drop Progressive - We're with State Farm which used to be a great insurance company; but Progressive were the insurers for the party that Tboned my son and they tried some pretty darn nasty techniques to wriggle out of responsibilty. Having said that, State Farm have been reasonable when it has come to claims. However, recently they have been very demanding of student transcripts, grades, and so on. Furthermore, one of my family acquired a speeding ticket by a cash poor county in NY and his rating affects all our insurance policies. They also suggested the use of tracking devices which I'm vehemently against. So, I too am looking for alternative insurance carriers.

One things for sure you'll not find a poor insurance agent.

Also, if you get hit by someone else and they were clearly being negligent and not truly an accident; I would make sure you get compensated for all your losses. Remember, your time is irreplaceable and cash payouts may not recover that. There is a long knock on effect from these events that has a lot of collateral damage.

Just my 5 cents worth!