I'v been talking with a guy from Eurotek about some of my concerns with the chip..

I think FJT, Brutal, or JagTechOhio said that the problem with the ECU tune is that whenever you take the car in for service there is a possibility of them reflashing the ECU and reverting your programming back to stock.

So I asked the guy about it today and this is what he said:

"Hi Eric we cover you for 4 years if the dealer erases the program so no charge for you. All you need to do is show us paperwork from dealer. Also Jaguar tech's on your car mostly reflash for the gearbox due to customer complaints of rough shifting. Very rare they flash the ECU for the engine. your car is a 2003 there are no open recalls or emissions updates so you have nothing to worry about. The stage 1 package is a great bolt on we sell these directly through Jaguar dealers its that safe and effective. Let us know if you have any further questions. We look forward to serving you. Eurotek "


What do you techs think, are there any other concerns I should address before doing this?

Eric

 

Greetings Eric,

Just chiming in so you can tick me off the list. I have zero direct experience with any of the tuning mods you are contemplating. The only outfit I have read about who publicly shares information and has product to offer is Eurotoys. No affiliation or other disclosures to make, I am not a customer.

 

We used to do pulleys, intake, exhaust and ecm programming at the dealership then one of our modded cars went to a dealer 8 states away and was refused warranty work. We haven't done any mods at the dealer since.

 

Really?? When you say you did ECM programming at the dealership.. Was it a custom tune that you guys developed yourselves or did your use a tune developed by a tuning company like Eurotek or Eurotoys?
Eric

 

im sure they were doing aftermarket, unless you have the equipment and software to rewrite programming no dealer is going to do this. But ide like to get into more aftermarket stuff, especially since i was tapped to be the tech on the 07xk koni challenge series car..opps then 08 hit and ford sold jag...damn
while they are correct you dont have any issue with yours recall004 currently is 04^. If i have a drivabilty issue with a car, not only will i clear adaptation, and reflash the trans, but the engine as well. Just like with windows updates new reflashes and software is always coming out of jaguar to improve the product and address different issues. That being said, i would be talking to any customer i work with like that and as long as i know you tuned, i wouldnt do it. And remember the only person that knows youre modded...is the tech, so develope a good working relationship with a good tech and go from there. Many dont want to deal with mods cause they dont understand anything but stock, i used to run a business years ago dealing with twin turbod nissan, supra etc. And am still into the tuning aftermarket with my nissan truck. Jaguar doesnt know if your trans came out from a totally stk jag, or a tuned and modded 100+hp over stock car, only the tech, so again get to know one guy, take him/her out for a beer, tip well be fair and remember them at christmas

 

We were using aftermarket tuning for the ECM. I can't remember who it was from though. We were doing cars in '03 and '04 when the STR and XJR hit the streets. I can tell you this, the pulley alone with no other tuning would pull at least 4 car lengths on a stock car in the 1/4 mile and the ones that got exhaust and ECM were more like 10 car lengths. This is all seat of the pants on the highway testing running modded car against stock car, no track time.

 

very, very intresting topic for i'am also a little leary of the reflash or tuning of the stock ECM unit. I saw somewhere on e-bay that a company would tune your stock ECM and send you there pulley along with a new belt, K&N filter for $1000 (ouch !)

 

Yeah, thats Eurotek cincinnati.. They are a very reputable tuning company (Bentleys, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, etc.) and if I do end up retuning the ECM, they are they only company I would use.. Unless Brutal comes out with his own remap..

 

awwww.....ok. I talked with guy via e-mail from eurotec and he kinda led me to believe that they will only tune your ECU if you buy there stage 1 package.

 

Realtech-what kind of pulley was it? Was it the larger or the smaller upper one? I am new here as you guys can see, but used to have a modded 99 XJR, and just came from a modded 00 Trans-am-love the Jag. I have looked at Eurotek and Eurotoys-seems Eurotoys has more to offer and lists items as Eurotek seems to hide thier numbers and mods.

 

To increase boost, 2 ways, small upper blower pulley, or larger crank pulley. The only issue is as you go smaller upper you reduce the belt contact surface area and are increasing boost. Both of which can lead to belt slippage. But all upper pulleys i see are only 1 size down. But just to let you know this if your the "i want even more boost so i want even smaller upper pulley" to go more you can go to larger blower like the eaton based units that magnuson builds, port yours like white str's. Also taking the intercoolers off the engines coolant system and giving it its standalone system, not much to do there but to adapt a reservoir into the coolant the mix. Stillen has a reservoir that would proobly work with 5/8" inlet and outlet that i used on my blown app for the frontier. But since the r's have their own pump, and raditator in the grill youde just take out the engines connection, plug and reroute, remember not only is cooler air gonna produce more hp, but safer since its wards off engine damaging detonation more.

 

Brutal thanks for the info. I plan on waiting to port the supercharger-it was a nightmare on my 99 to get off and back on... On my 99 XJR I was the first to get my blower ported by Magnum Powers (prob still the only one)-man that was a sweet blower with a custom smaller pulley. I also seperated the cooling system from the supercharger coolant circuit and added a 12 or 14" (cant remember what size) cooling fan to the intercooler as a pusher. I made the fan come on with the car. The temperatures went down alot on the cooling tanks and you def could feel alot more power especially after heat soak. I did have some issues with the belt slippage and the belt hitting the water pump since this was a custom upper pulley and the place never had thier hands on the car--all was done through mail and the phone. The car would pull like crazy, at the track with only 9lbs of boost she ran a 13.2 at 106, I did see as much as 15lbs of boost when the belt would hold. Glad to be on a Jag forum where you guys actually mod your cars..!!!!

 

We were installing a smaller blower pulley. It was actually for the Ford lightening which uses the same blower only the parts are less than half the cost of Jag labeled mods. Oops, was i supposed to say that?

 

My 2 cents on ECU tuning here.

ECU Tuning via the post sounds a bit dangerous to me. Only if the tune is done carefully, monitored on a Dyno, and only knowing that the car is in perfect conditions (so good working MAF, all 8 injectors flowing the same etc), one could copy this tune which should be mild to other cars. Of course the condition must be that your car is exactly the same, so no different pulley size etc. Pending on how sharp one has tuned the ECU ranging from low risk (less extra power) to high risk (more extra power), the risks become even higher when you change more on your car (i.e. boost pressure). This is another reason why I am not in favor of mail-order tunes, one has no idea what has been changed.

Probably this was also why Eurotek is selling this ECU tune as a package (so with different pulley setup), but you would need to ask them.

Getting more power out of these cars with an ECU tune is child play, they are set very rich, but this is probably not done by the factory to increase fuel consumption…

Don’t get me wrong, I am not against tuning your ECU, but it would be the last tuning step I would take, and only with a tuner that has the experience and is able to custom tune on his dyno, and knows where the risk areas are to avoid an early death of an engine, so do not go to lean and make sure your car is in top condition before you start any tuning.

Andre.

 

sorry Andre, but I disagree, having worked with many installs and mods to many different platforms. The first thing and the most bang for the buck from performance and economy is going to be an ECU tune. Reason, the factory maps all for mass public consumption. When you change things like exhaust, cold air intake etc. you get better initial performance until you put miles on it. The ecu "sees" that that Air to Fuel (AFR's) have changed from what it wants, so it changes long term fuel trims to go back to what it wants. So while you do get some performance increase useally from these type mods youll never get full benefit. So remapping fuel and timing for the ecu alone will yield better economy and performance depending on who tuned the maps and how they set them up. If they only change timeing and fuel maps under full throttle apps, you wont see any increase in economy. But if the timing maps are done thoughout rpm/load range youll see great results, and as you add mods it wont be going 2 steps forward 1 step back. Youll be keeping the increases you started with. Remember to that if you where already blown adding a smaller pulley is still going to be well within the parameters and controls of the ecu. The drastic change like going from normally aspirated to blown like I just did last month on the truck and used much larger injectors is where you have to have a dyno tune for that app. I started with a base tune since there was 1 avail from a friend of mine just did before me. So I was able to use his tune for my truck so it would run correctly, and boy did it ever, then we dyno tuned "MY" truck to get the most out of mine and picked up another 8rwhp, and 11rwtq. Now I didnt have to spend the extra $350 for a dyno tune since his was same type app, afrs were correct and timing. So back to the ecu tune, Ive always felt for these reasons that an ecu tune be done first if money allows. If you only have money for a KnN filter then youre not ready to mod, you just want a better filter.As you use bolt on mods youll always be well within the parameters on the ecu tuned maps and control. The ecu will go 20% +/-. Then if you want to get the most out of your application THEN you can dyno tune yours at that point, but giving the ecu a better book to read from will get you better results everytime. When companies like Eurotek offer different packages with different tunes, that meens theyve dyno tuned a car like yours with these mods, and the tune thats included is based on those mods. Thats not saying you cant start off with a generic retune and then cant do more mods without a retune, anymore than saying you cant mod without tuning. You can, but youll always get the maximum benefits with a tuned based on those mods, and many companies will send you retunes cheaper or free if you go to the next level of mods after youve bought their inital tune

 

wow i love this place ! you guy's are on it, i'm glad there are other jaguar owners that mod there car with performance upgrades and not just floor mats.

 

well hopefully it encourages people to get more. Just cause its a Jaguar, doesnt meen it doesnt respond like any other car out there. You just have to know where to look. Ide like to see some writeups on upgrades and mods. Along with some before n after dynos and or 1/4mile runs.....to see what and how much improvement resulted

 

Brutal, i'm in the process of doing many upgrades but i'm doing them carefully and doing extensive research on the products, companys , results ect. I'll do a before and after dyno pull with my jag to see the gained results. This may take some time (3-6 mnths) "stay tuned"

 

Guess you won't be picking up those coveted floor mats anytime soon then. As a non-tuner, I'd be starting with the separate intercooler circuit that BRUTAL described. The efficiency of saving the heat loss and ease of modification makes this sound like good bang for the buck.

 

@Bruta,

“So remapping fuel and timing for the ecu alone will yield better economy and performance depending on who tuned the maps and how they set them up”

We agree more than disagree I think, also with the later posts.

I am not talking here about economics or throttle adjustments, only full power map adjustments, where the ECU mainly relies on MAF signal to adjust fuel delivery and the IAT2.

All depends on how far some goes in fueling/ignition. If you alter more to your car (not just a filter/exhuast), by which I mean more boost (= more heat), one could get closer to the unsafe boundaries. Only way of knowing is with a dyno tune, but if one plans changes with only small stuff like filters or an exhaust I do not see an issue with a tune done before. Another major factor to be included is how will one drive the car, could it be prolonged full power runs (i.e. German autobahn, track), or is it an occasional pull? I wish I had an easy answer, but better be safe than sorrow, and know what you do instead of guessing what a remote tuner has done to the maps.

Cooling is indeed very important as the heat soak is taking away lots of power (as the ecu adjusts timing amongst others to avoid pre-ignition), so better cooling is already of interest for a slightly modified car, but even more so for a higher boost application.

The coolant circuits are only connected, there is no flow between them, all I can imagine a small drip or so. I would be interested to see real temperature measurements comparing an open and closed system, as so far I am not convinced that a closed system gives that much benefit, so anyone has some data on this?

Andre.