2003 x type 2.5 knocking "i don't work on jaguar" mechanics say "down in the engine". Sounded at first as if cooling fan nicking a housing. Then, occurred to me that it sort of sounded like the knocking you used to hear when the gas was not high octane enough. One of the mechanics said rod or piston. Didn't disagree when i said could be valves.

I'm no mechanic but i have some small inkling of what goes on in an internal combustion engine, being an old guy. I would like to have some idea of what kind of work i'm looking at before i take the plunge. I am pretty weary of those who say they can do something and cannot deliver.

Thanks all.


Mikliine

 

Mikline, if it is only valves, then that is pretty straight forward if you have some mechanical ability. Granted, don't plan on getting this done in a day (like you could with older engines). This will be a complete weekend job, if not possibly longer as you will have a lot of disassembly that will be needed to get the head off. If you want more info, let me know.

As for rods, our motors don't have rods. These motors are overhead cam. So, there is no need for rods. Granted, it is possible that if you are hearing a rattling, you can remove the valve covers and give the rocker arms a check to see if for some reason one of them has gotten loose over the years. There are lifters that help keep the rocker up against the cam.

If you are looking at something with pistons or connecting rods, then you might as well save yourself a lot of hassle and go with a rebuilt/slightly used engine and drop in the whole unit. Probably cheaper in the long run once you start looking at labor costs. But, to do this, you have to have the car up in the air about 3 feet so you can drop the engine out the bottom of the car (will not fit coming out the top).

If you need more info about anything, let me know. I'll do what I can to help you out.

 

Thank you Thermo.

I'm considering tackling the valve check this weekend, hoping that's what it is. When I said rod at first, I was aware it was an overhead valve.

Checking around for available replacement engine if con rod is it. What you say about the hassle and labor cost makes good sense. I am wondering if a 3.0 would fit, assuming the 2.5 and 3.0 ZF transmissions would be the same mechanically, although the gearing might well be different.

 

Mik, the 3.0L and 2.5L motors use the same blocks. They just changed the stroke and bore of the blocks to make the displacement difference. So, swapping the two blocks 1 for 1 is not a problem. I'm not sure though what else may need to be swapped to make it all work. I wouldn't think much else would need to be done as long as you kept the same MAF and other sensors.

 

Thanks Therm. What I thought. I'm looking around on EBay for a 3.0. Don't know what you mean by "MAF", which may doom my "project" for my ignorance. On the other hand, if I have a couple gallons of solvent and a big wrench to loosen stuff, I think it will be half of the battle. 40% of the battle will making sure the engine doesn't bounce on my foot when I drop it down the three feet. The rest will, I'm sure, be gravy.

I will keep you posted and much appreciate your advice so far.

 

MIkline, MAF, Mass Air Flow. It is a sensor between the air box and the throttlebody that measures how much air is going into the engine. It should be the same between the two engines, so, no real need to change it out. Even so, unless you are winding the 3.0L engine out to red line, the 2.5L MAF sensor will still read everything.

As for the engine and getting it down out of the car, what I would tell you to do is to simply get a cherry picker like you would with any other car, just with a slightly longer chain setup. That way you can put a little bit of upward pressure on the engine so as you break the motor mounts loose, the weight transfer will be mostly on the cherry picker already. THen you can lower the block down on to a roll about setup (probably could get away with a roller like you would use to move yourself around under the car). I'm sure there are other ways to do the same thing. Use of a chainfall and a support setup across 2 beams of the rafters inside of your garage would work too (I know I used that for installing a 3.8L V6 into my boat). When I did that, I simply cut two 2x4's about 24" long, nailed them together, installed some blocks on the end so the boards would be held in place on the rafters and then I drilled a 3/8" hole through both 2x4's and ran a large eye bolt through with a fender washer on the backside to help distribute the weight on the eye bolt. Worked great.

 

I sit at your feet and listen attentively Therm. I do find it unfortunate that you find the primary means of propulsion in a boat should be an engine, as I am of the sailing persuasion, having done so for the last long time. But, as usual, what do I know? Maybe your boat has a sail on it somewhere? There is room in this world for different recreational religions I think.

I found a mechanic whose ears I trust. He thought it was a valve problem, which is what I mentioned in my first post. I was warming up to putting the 3.0 in instead of the 2.5 because of the con rod landscape I was facing. He thought the damage a result of a "friend" of mind over-revving the 2.5 in April. Now a fried valve is something I recognize.

So to check it out I believe I'll be pulling a head or two off this weekend. Stocking up on fastener solvent, checking the old sockets and making sure I will have at least one precision adjustment tool available.

In the short run, I may just do the valve train repair if that's in the cards. In the long, a 3.0 would be nice which it does not sound like something beyond my ken.

I will, forgive the expression, keep you posted.

Thank you very much for sharing your Jaguar, and general automotive, wisdom.

Best.
Mikline

 

Mik, my "fun" boat had no sail. It was a little 16 footer (5 meter) piece I got more because I was bored. As for my other boats, they have sails, but not as you are thinking. When you work/live on a submarine, they have sails too. But, they are for storing the periscopes and then the "engines" are steam turbines being spun using heat from a nuclear reactor (I was the one running the nuclear reactor, hence the name I have here). So, I have spent more than my fair share of time with boats that have sails. He he he he h ehe. I don't think that is what you were meaning. C'est la vie. maybe some day I will give your method of boating a whirl. I have a place near me that I can rent sail boats and they will even give free lessons too.

As for the valve job, I wish you luck with it. One tool that you will need is a C-style Valve spring removal tool. Once you remove the overhead cams, you will need to be able to hold the valve in the shut position while pushing down on the top hat of the valve so you can remove the clip holding the top hat in place. I bought one that had 2 fingers that went on the valve cap and that was more of a hassle than it was worth, so I broke out my welder and some scrap steel I had laying around and then used an old socket that I cut a window in the side of. That allowed me to get a good downward push on the top hat and with using the window in the side of the socket I was able to put in the clips to lock everything together. Once that tool was made, doing the valves was a cake job. Just a little hint, adding a drop of oil to the top of the valve I found helped hold everything together as you released the tension and allowed the top hat to seat against the retainers.

Let me know how things go. I think you will find that the hardest part of the job will be simply getting to the head. Once you get the head off, the rest will be a piece of cake.

As for your friend "over-revving" the engine, with the computers on the engines, that is virtually impossible to do. About the only way I can think that he could do something like that is to have a manual tranny car and then force the tranny into say second while doing around 55 mph and then letting out on the clutch. If you have an automatic, the computer will not let the tranny downshift to over rev the engine and if you were to even keep the car in neutral and stop on the gas, the computer will remove the fuel supply to keep the engine RPMs within allowable range (even if it steps over the redline on the tach due to a fudge factor installed from the factory). The only possible way I can think of would be if he took the car up to redline and then simply left his foot there, letting the engine "bounce" off of the rev limiter. Even then, the odds of causing damage is pretty small.

Hopefully you can find the problem and get things fixed.

 

Well Mr. Thermo, I know from sub sails a bit and thus appreciate what you say. Now a 16 footer with the size engine you described will sail along pretty good my friend and with flat boards on your feet is able to provide some blow your hair back fun. Fell off a couple in my time. My father was a Navy man stationed in Honolulu during WWII and used to tell me stories about submariner things of various sorts, like transporting a jeep back to the Mainland in pieces in various boats.

So, I'm on the hunt today for a C-style Value Spring Removal Tool, which as I understand it may be the name of an up and coming rock group. Lacking your welding prowess, I believe I will have to settle for a commercial version. I am wondering whether there will be anything left of my hands after this endeavor, much less anything left of the poor little 2.5.

As for the over-revving, what I meant was that this so-called friend drove the automobile for a while at 120 miles per hour. I do not think it could bear that, but what do I know?

You are a generous gentleman.

Mike Klein

 

Mikline, if the friend only maintained 120 MPH for a period of time, the car was only turning about 4,000 RPM at that speed. That is well within the allowable for the engine. Normally what kills valves is having them "float" (ie, not closing all the way) before the piston comes up. THis only occurs at very high RPMs in our engines. What ends up happening is the valve is still partially open as the piston slams into the valve, bending it, causing it to now bind up, not seat, and in general create havoc.

As for the tool, the C-clamp style will work. I would need to look in my garage, I may have a second one that I created still laying around. If you would be interested in that, I'm sure we can make a deal on that (I would just be looking to cover the cost of materials and the shipping cost, or about $10 total).

As for submarines, oh the things I have seen brought down on a sub. It is amazing what we can do when we put our minds to it. As for the toy boat, oh, it got up and moved. It moved at the tune of about 70 mph. Granted, I made the mistake one time of getting on the gas right off the line. I stood the boat up on the fantail and ended up only having my hands on the boat at one point (no other part of me was touching the boat as the boat went vertical). Once it came down, it was on plane and I was draped over the seat. I never did that again. LMAO.

Let me know what you find and we'll take things from there.

 

I've got a question to anyone that's out there? my 2002 x-type 2.5l, is also making a noise from one cylinder. It sounds like a knocking or pecking from the center back cylinder. it started while cruising on the interstate around 88mph. My daughter ask what was that? I turned down RUSH, which I had cranked up. It actually sounded like a chain had come off on an old bicycle. The cruise went off, the Amber lite came on and the check engine came on. It started slowing down but it still had 3/4 power. I still had to drive about 5 miles before the next exit. When I got off the exit I had 5 miles to get home. I made it 2 miles before the red lite on the dash came on and the motor quit. I checked the oil and it would measure at different places on the dipstick, the oil was HOT. i checked for anything rubbing, broken, nothing. I was thinking,'out of oil'. the temperature gage never showed overheating. I called a friend and they brought me 5 qts. of Valvoline 5w30 extended life. the previous owner used synthetic oil. By now the engine was cooler so I added enough to be in the safe zone. the car started and i put it in drive and started driving. It sounded like little men with hammers in my motor. There was a squealing knocking noise so loud that I thought i was going to get a noise violation. lol I made it to my drive way and I had the gas pedal to the floor just to get up into the drive. That's when I shut it off. the next day I checked the oil and of course it showed about 2 inches too much oil. I drained and changed the oil and filter. Started my car and the pecking was still there. I put motor medic in the motor and ran it for 15 minutes, hopefully to unstop any stopped up oil tubes. drained and changed the oil and filter. Started it and the same thing, but this time in the bottom of the drain pan it looked like I was panning for gold. Nice and shiny little pieces of metal. NOT good. now it is just sitting in the drive like a pretty, broken Black Cat. If i take the valve covers off and put the intake back on, will I be able to tell or see anything broken or unusual when I start it. I don't want to give someone $3000.00.to do this for me(I don't have $3000.00 dollars anyway, I spent everything on the car). Can I fix this myself or am i just trying to be positive? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Maybe I can help you too. I am an advanced Directv Technician. Anyone have any ideas, all excepted good or terrible.
Thank you for reading my story and if you have any questions please ask. If you can call or text that's OK too. My # is 931-797-7688. I'm on Facebook- as Directvman, or e-mail me at danielj261@yahoo.com or danielj2@vzw.blackberry.net.
Thank you for your time Daniel E. Jarrett

 

Daniel, unfortunately, because of the metal particles that you found in the pan, things are looking pretty terminal. Even if you flush out the metal pieces, you are going to not fix the initial issue of the valve knocking. So, this leaves you a few options. If you have mechanical ability, pulling the motor yourself and rebuilding it would probably be the best and most cost efficient thing you can do. But, this is lots of your hours and it will still probably cost you about $1500 to get a rebuild kit, hone the cylinders and fix whatever is causing your problem. Option 2 is to find a wrecking yard and see what you can pick up a used engine for (normally under $1000) and then pay a place to replace the engine (assuming you can't replace it yourself). This should get you out the door for under $2000 normally. Then you have the obvious of having a shop rebuild the motor for you. Obviously this is the most expensive route and you can plan on atleast $3000, if not into the $5000 range (more than likely outside your budget as you are describing).

Based on what you are describing, it sounds like your oil pump gave up the ghost and that lead to a lack of lubrication to your motor. But, I am basing this all on what you have said here.

 

The 2002-05? Lincoln LS 3.0L engine shares the EXACT block and internals as the 3.0L X-Type engine. An existing 3.0L X-Type engine has everything needed to make this swap except mostly gaskets . Also, one can upgrade a 2.5L in this way as ancillary parts are also the same as 3.0L. One of my 'car lot' buddies did this swap a couple of years ago. Also, a fellow on the Forum has done it. He has been courteous enough to share his experience. By his pictures and text, I can tell he did a MUCH cleaner/professional job than the home grown version that I saw. FURTHERMORE, in the US of A, the Lincoln version of this engine is plentiful and junk yard (sorry-automotive recycler) prices reflect this. HMM?!?! I think I'll go out to the shop to check if my X has developed any con rod noise during the night.....just another project for another time. Cheers, Andy

 

I've got a 2002 x-type with a 2.5L and 2 months ago while driving on the interstate, the car sounded like I ran over something. After that the cruise control went off and the car started slowing down. The engine started making a sound like something was hitting something inside or around the engine. I made it to the nearest exit and the motor quit and I pulled off the road and stopped. I looked under the car and checked inside the engine compartment. I couldn't find anything wrong, and there was no oil on the ground. The dipstick showed a little oil on it. I put oil in the motor to raise the level and after it cooled off I drove it home. It (the engine) made so much noise that it sounded like little men hammering inside my engine. I am fixin to rebuild my motor myself. I was told that a rod on the crank probably broke and one cylinder was causing the problem. Right now when i start it the pecking is loud but the engine runs smooth. Go figure. I don't drive it and it stays in the garage until I have enough for a rebuild kit. Its will be an undertaking doing this myself but you have to do what you have to do. I am an advanced Directv technician. So I also no nothing about Jaguars, but alot of reading and online manuals, I think I can do this. if you have any questions write back and I will help any way possible.
Good luck Danny jarrett

 

Does anyone know if the engine in a 2002 x-type w/2.5 is a Ford Duratech? I have found a 1998 mercury mystique with a new 2.5L Duratech. I know the top half is made by Jaguar and Porsche, but the bottom half is ford. Will this work with a few modifications?

 

TVMan, yes, the blocks will work and are interchangeable. But, you will need to use the intake from off of the Jag with the motor as the Jag setup uses tuning valves in the intake which the Duratech engine doesn't have. Also keep in mind that there are slightly differences between the two blocks. Specifically that the water pump on the Duratech (Ford) block is on the front of the engine where the Jag block has the water pump on the back of the block (next to the battery box). So, if you are going to drop the Duratech engine in, I would put a new water pump on it while the motor is out.

Something else I will caution you on is that the motors for our cars are not meant to come out the top of the engine bay. I know you are probably wondering, "then how do they come out". Simply put, you have to lift the car off of the engine. This will mean lifting the front of the car up about 3 feet to slide the engine out from under the front bumper. This can be an easy job, can be a bit challenging based on what tools you have around your house or what you have access to.

If you look around the Forums, one of the members did the swap that you are talking about and he documented the whole process.

 

Thank you Thermo, I've decided to rebuild the existing engine. That way I can keep the VIN numbers the same. your right, I've got the intake off and the wiring harness off except for one little switch that goes to the bottom of the AC, which is awful hard to reach with large fingers. lol. When I took the intake off I noticed the front three intakes had carbon build-up and only one on the back had it too. The right two were so clean you could have eaten out of them. What I'm doing today is taking the front A-arm off so I can get ready to drop the engine. I figured the engine has to come out the bottom, there's no way this thing will come out the top. Question, when I take the A-arm off, I won't have anything else fall off will I? Should I raise the car first or after I take this A-arm off?
Thank you for all of your help so far.
Your Friend Danny

 

danny, it is going to be easier to keep things down low until you are ready to slide the motor out. Then yo ucan use a cherry picker to pick up the front half of the car. From there, you can slide the motor/tranny complex out the side. As for what all you may have fall off as you are doing this, I am not the best person to be asking this. I am sure a few other guys can help you out a lot more. I haven't dove that far into this car to start pulling the motor.