Hi, bought a 2005 X type estate about 3 weeks ago for the wife and the car dealer has had it longer than us. Anyway got it back but now, when it feels like it, it wont turnover. All the lights are on radio continues playing but nothing, no slow groan or clicking, silence. Took it back again as it decided to let me start it and dealer reckons he's fixed it because it starts when he turns the key???? (that apparently is how to fix a car) anyway its done it again to my wife this time. I get home try it and it starts. Anyone any ideas?? It sometimes comes up with a message about Fuel problems, I'll try and get the correct wording next time but I can't see how fuel and turnover are related? Hoping someone else has come across this and knows how to rectify. My first post so I hope I've stuck to the rules. Cheers

 

GazzaJagx, I would try swapping the starting relay with a similar relay and see if the problem clears itself. If it does, then you have a relay that is starting to go.

On a side note, when the car fails to start, look down at the center console and see if the red light next to the e-brake is lit or not. If it is lit, then the car is not getting the proper signal from the key and it is failing to start on a failure of the security code. I would think that the dealership would confirm this, but sometimes it is the simple checks that can make things better.

 

Well, scratch the swapping the relay idea. Looking at the diagrams, it seems that the starter relay is a PCB relay (ie, solid state relay) and you can't simply swap it out. it is part of a cluster of 4 relays in the silver finned box in the fuse box.

With that being said, remove fuse F34 from the engine bay fuse fox. Now, with a piece of solid strand 18 gauge wiring, touch one end of the wire to the clips that the fuse attaches to and the other end of the wire to the battery positive. Does the motor turn over every time you touch the wiring to the fuse terminal (1 of the terminals is wired right to the starter, the other goes back to the relay, so, you will need to figure out which side is for what). Do not worry, as long as you have the keys removed from the car, it will not start on you. If the motor turns over every so often, then this confirms that your starter is bad. If the motor turns over every time, then you will need to access the underside of your engine bay fuse box. Locate the large 2 wire plug in the corner of the fuse box. Just underneath it (in the center row of plugs), you want to locate the yellow wires there. Using a multimeter, connect the red lead to the yellow wire (either one works, electrically the same) and the black lead to chassis ground. When the key is rolled to the START position, does the multimeter jump to 12 VDC every time (may need to do really short bumps so the engine doesn't start or trip the fuel pump switch in the passenger footwell area to restrict gas to the engine)? If no, then your problem is your ignition switch. If yes, move the red lead over to the 8 pin plug in the corner of the fuse box and attach the red lead to the green/orange wire (keep the black wire attached to chassis ground). Attempt to start the car a few times. With the car cranking, does the multimeter remain at 0 VDC (disregard any very short spike in voltage) all the time or does it jump to 12 VDC periodically (when the engine fails to start)? If it remains at 0 VDC, you most likely have a bad relay. If it goes to 12 VDC, you have a problem with the ECM module.

If you are suspecting an ECM module, there are a few things to check. First off, remove the multimeter and re-install the fuse box. Attempt to crank the engine a few times till it fails to start and make sure to hold the key in the START position when it does fail. With the key in the START position, with your free hand, tap the gear shifter (don't move it from P, but move it inside the play area it has) and see if this causes the engine to roll. If so, then you have a bad tranny range sensor.

If moving the gear shifter doesn't change anything, is the red light just below the gear shifter on? If yes, then you have a problem with the security system of the car. If no, then odds are, you are dealing with a bad ECM (possibly connecting wiring, but the ECM is a more likely suspect). You can check the plug to the ECM to make sure that all the pins look good (ie, silver in color, nothing looking like it is rusted).

Hope this helps. if you need more info, let me know.

 

You know your stuff mate!


It's a diesel manual (should have told you) so the gearbox bit can be ruled out.


The force feeding of the starter, do I need to wait for the car to be in the failed state?


Also, someone suggested is it might be to do with the security of the car. Do you know what happens when the immobiliser kicks in? Does it turn over but not fire or not turn over at all.


Gonna need a bit of time to go through your suggestions and the weather isn't on my side so don't expect an answer immediately.


Thanks very much for help though, much appreciated!

 

Gazza, let me look at the drawings again. There are suttle differences between the diesel and petrol versions. Most of it should be the same, but at the same time, some of the wire colors or whatnot will be different.

 

Gazza, most of what I said up above still holds true. The only thing that does not hold true is trying to move the gear shifter. In your case, I would try pumping the clutch a few times with the key in the START position to see if that will cause the car to start. If it does, then it is your clutch switch that is making the ECM think that the clutch is not depressed and therefore the car is in gear.

As for the immobilizer, it should cause the car not to roll the engine at all. That is why I was telling you to look at the red light on your center console. That will tell us if you are being immobilized because it is not seeing the correct code from your key.

One last difference. Above, when you are flipping the fuse box over, I talk about 2 yellow wires. In your case, you only have 1 on that plug. So, should make things a bit easier for you.

 

Hi Chris, it's brilliant you going to so much trouble for me.


Slight change to the problem. When the car first gave us trouble the wife stalled it, the dashboard came up with a fault " Fuel computer Data Error" and then it wouldn't turnover.


We used the car on a run this weekend and the same fault came up but this time I could turn over but it wouldn't fire. Left it for 5 mins and then it started.


I think I've got two faults. The fuel and the turnover separate.


I will get round to doing the tests you suggest, just the weather (and life) don't seem to be giving the opportunity at the moment.


So annoying though, the wife loves the car and it drives a treat, round town and at motorway speeds. I just can't go back to the dealer any more or I might get myself in trouble with the boys in blue.


Cheers Gary