I'm thinking of flushing the brake fluid on my X soon, and was debating whether to install speed bleeders while I'm at it. They replace the OEM bleeder screws with a screw design that has a one-way valve built-in to prevent air from getting back into the calipers when you're bleeding the brakes. In theory, they should make bleeding brakes easier and more foolproof in the future. They're not that expensive. I'm on the fence because I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle, or if they work as advertised.

http://www.speedbleeder.com/

Has anyone installed these? Any experiences, good or bad?

 

I have been using speedbleeders on my Rx7 autox car and they work great.

- Sandro

 

Haven't seen these before, but as an engineer I really like the look of them. At 7 bucks each it's not an expensive outlay either.

I'm not keen on the standard chromate plating however (my personal choice) and would prefer the stainless steel, but they're twice the price. The internals of the standard bleeder are made from stainless steel so shouldn't corrode if they're of the correct grade which I'm sure they are.

If you intend to keep the car for a few years and bleed the brakes every 2 years I would think they are very worthwhile.

Not sure if they're available in the UK, but can ask my dad to send me some.

Good to see the US is still coming up with innovate new ideas.

 

I put them on all my cars. Personally, I think they're fantastic. Especially if you're in a clutch and you're the only one available to help with bleeding the brakes. Do they have the part numbers on there for the X's? I tried ordering through Jegs and they didn't know which sizes were required.

 

From what I have seen from a lot of postings it sounds like Jaguar might have installed "wallet" bleeders in a lot of the Xs.

 

I used them on my hill climb car a few years back until I had one fail. Now I stick with the trusty mitty vac for all my hydro fluid replacement needs. Its much safer.

 

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

chknhwk (chicken hawk? :-), I found some online that the retailer's web site says are for the X-type, but I'm I can't seem to find the link now. You might try a search.

benebob, Thanks for sharing your experience. Reliability/safety is my primary concern as well. I found this thread on a Honda forum, which makes me think it's not worth the risk: http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1831440. Brakes aren't the kind of thing I want to take chances with. It's too bad - it's a great idea, but questionable execution. I'm going to stick with my OEM bleeder screws.

 

Topbrakes, http://www.topbrakes.com/ has speedbleeders listed on their site. They also have Porterfield pads which I'm thinking about giving a try, I'm a little disappointed with what I have in there now. Absolutely zero brake dust but they aren't as aggressive as I'd like.

 

BTW, yes it's Chickenhawk from the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons.

 

After looking at the design, I chose not to use them for the concern of these possibly failing as Benebob has already experienced. I am concerned these can be over tightened distorting the body and damaging the spring mechanism.

I do know many who use them and swear by them, just a caution not to crank down when tightening.

 

Interesting...

Mind sharing details of what kind of mechanical failure did you experience?

I have been using them for more ten years with my autox car and my DR650 bike and never had any problem. On my autox car I bleed brakes no less than 4-5 time a year.

I don't see how they could fail or cause failure, other than mishandling (like over torquing). When closed they are just like a normal bleeder, completely sealing off the the bleed port. What have I been missing?

About the other one-man operation mechanisms/systems, gravity, myvac, powerbleed, I tried and actually have them all, and they all work. By I find the speed bleeders more convenient.

Thanks,

- Sandro

 

DONT DO IT!! I had them on my Ford Bronco that i used to do some weekend rock crawling (nothing major though)i had them (both fronts) failed on me coming down a steep hill. Save your self dont mess with brakes factory parts works best.

 

My take on Speed Bleeders, and a number of other brake-bleeding solutions:

http://www.jimrothe.com/volvo/clutch_bleeding.html

Note that I wrote that for my old Volvo S70, but the same still applies to the Jag.

 

Jim, thanks for the interesting write up. There seem to be so many different perspectives on proper brake bleeding technique. Something I've read about with respect to the pressure systems is that they conceivably push air bubbles into the brake fluid. I have no experience using this method, so I can't really say one way or the other.

Something you mention with the conventional bleeding method is that you don't want the helper releasing the pedal while the screw is open. Seems really tedious to open and close the screw on each pump. Can you avoid the risk of letting air back in by using this approach instead? :

1. Fill the bottom of the catch bottle with about an inch or so of fresh brake fluid.

2. Make sure the tygon tube reaches all the way down to the bottom (creating a seal from outside air intrusion)

3. Have your helper pump the brakes three or 4 times to get the old fluid flowing and force out any air that's in the tygon tube.

4. Keep pumping until clean fluid starts coming out of the tube. At this point, there should be no air getting into the system since the tube is full of fluid, and the end of the tube is immersed in fluid. Any backflow should be fluid, not air

5. On the last pump, have your helper hold the pedal down. Tighten the screw to spec, and then have the helper release the brake pedal.

Seems like this should eliminate the problem of air getting back in as you bleed the brakes without having to deal with the tedium of opening and closing the bleed screw with each pump of the pedal. Thoughts?

 

If you let the tank go too low or totally dry, it will push air into the master cylinder fluid reservoir. If the master cylinder fluid reservoir then goes too low, you will be pushing air into the brake lines.

I actually don't use the Power Bleeder in accordance with the manufacturer's directions. In the past, I've tended to just keep the Power Bleeder empty, but top up the master cylinder fluid reservoir prior to pressurizing the system. Then I go to each bleed valve and release it with my best guess about how low I can go with the master cylinder level. I have to keep an eye on the fluid level when I use this method, but that has been easy enough, and I have yet to let it go so low that it introduces air into the system.

Next time around - probably within the next week or two, since I need new rear pads - I'm going to try another variation on this technique. Rather than use the Power Bleeder with a dry tank, I'm going to see if a pint bottle of brake fluid will actually fit into the tank, then I'll put the Power Bleeder's in-tank hose into the pint bottle. The smaller diameter of the pint bottle should make it less likely that the hose will pick up air from the uneven fluid level of a leaning Power Bleeder tank.

That's for sure!

I expect that this will only partially eliminate that problem. In my experience on a few other cars, air tends to get back into the system through the partially open threads of an unscrewed bleed valve. In fact, I'm remembering seeing some of that same issue when I tried Speed Bleeders on my RX-7.

 

Thanks Jim. I came across this phenomenal article on brake fluid last night:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml

For what it's worth, here's what they say about pressure bleeders:

"...not all pressure bleeders are created equal. The professional units (the type you can consider using) separate the pressurized brake fluid from the pressure source (air) using a flexible rubber diaphragm. In this fashion, the pressurized air is kept from forcing its way into the fluid. As we all know, air and fluid should be kept as far apart as possible.

This brings us to the imitations. There seem to be a rash of products available lately that claim to be pressure brake bleeders at a fraction of the cost of the professional units. Like most things that sound too good to be true, well, it’s exactly that.

Like the professional units, these imitations contain a pressure vessel into which new brake fluid is poured. However, in order to pressurize the fluid, an integral pump handle is cycled to build the pressure inside the vessel without any measures taken to separate the pressurized air from the fluid. For those of you who have ever bought a $19.95 do-it-yourself potted plant and bug sprayer from Home Depot you get the idea.

Of course, having pressurized air in contact with the brake fluid will certainly force the fluid through the system just as effectively as the high-zoot professional unit, but as an added bonus we are stuffing air into the brake fluid at the same time. Talk about an unwanted surprise!

While it may not be visible to the naked eye (air can actually entrain itself in the fluid as to be visually undetectable) it’s there right along with all of the nasty moisture trapped inside of it. This of course begs the question: if you are stuffing air and water contaminated fluid into your brake system, why even bother bleeding it in the first place?"

The whole article is worth a read.

 

A related note/suggestion...

The ATE Super Racing is a high quality brake fluid sold in blue or amber colors. By alternating colors between flushes you can actually "see it" when the old fluid has bled out completely.

- Sandro

 

Hmmm... StopTech. I vaguely remember that name from my autocross days.

Then I read the whole article. Carroll Smith! *That* Carroll Smith. For those who don't know the name, he wrote a series of books that should be required reading for anyone who wants to build a fast race car. Or a slow race car, like mine!

Still, the negative comments about low-end pressure bleeders are not consistent with my own experience. But who am I to argue with Carroll Smith?

As I was considering why he might make such comments, I wondered about whether or not he ever actually used such products, or was just building on a professional pride in using high-end tools, and maybe even got caught up in some of the tool manufacturer's literature. Still, everything I've ever read from the guy indicates he's a pretty straight shooter.

Then it dawned on me. I alluded to this earlier when I described my non-conventional way of using the Power Bleeder. Early on in my experience with the Power Bleeder, I found one of its biggest faults. When you're using it and it doesn't sit on a perfectly level surface, the fluid pick-up hose in the tank might get positioned such that it isn't in the brake fluid - thereby forcing air into the master cylinder fluid reservoir. If you've ever enjoyed a milk shake and slurped up a mouthful of air when the drink is almost gone, then you know you have to reposition the straw in the cup in order to get that last few drops of creamy goodness. The same thing happens with the Pressure Bleeder when it's used on an uneven surface.

My solution, as I described earlier, was to keep the master cylinder fluid reservoir topped off while using pressure from the *empty* power bleeder to facilitate a one-man bleeding technique. Apparently, in so doing, I'm also preventing any bubbles from forming during the transfer of fluid from the power bleeder tank to the reservoir. Additionally, any bubbles that might have been poured into the reservoir from the brake fluid container while topping off the reservoir have a chance to settle out of solution before I apply pressure and open up a bleed valve. And again, since I'm not stirring up the fluid in the reservoir, I'm still not adding any more bubbles into the mix.

So again, I'll hold that the pressure bleeder was the technique that worked best for me, but at least this discussion brought out one of it's primary shortcomings - as well as my inadvertent solution to the problem.

 

ATE is great stuff. I run Super Blue in all my vehicles, my tow Jeep in particular as it is most prone to boil the fluid during hard braking under load. Downside is that it is expensive, so you end up being very careful bleeding.

Several of the methods described in this thread work just fine, some a little better or easier than others. Just be thankful that you don't have to bleed the ABS accumulator on the X....you should see the procedure in the Range Rover manual.....complex doesn't even describe the process.

 

Wow. I just did a brake flush and changed out discs and pads on our X. I wish I would have known about the bleeders, I would have gotten them.
I also put more money into some better brake discs.