The eagle research pdf could certainly be put together much better.. lol

people in the HHO forums believe the car would be running richer without using some type of a/f controller.

apexi safc - Apexi SAFC Air Flow Converter from AlamoMotorsports

I know these work to tune many turbo charged imports..

Does anyone know if its actually possible to use a device like this to adjust the fuel maps or a/f ratio by tapping into the obd2 connector?

Volo FS2-HHO Edition

 

A 4L engine at 3000 rpm swallows 1,500 L air/fuel mix/min.
These jam jar cells can produce at best 1L of gas/min, probably much less, a stoichiometric mix of 2 parts H2 and 1 part O2.
Even if the cathode could be isolated to collect pure H2 the addition of another 0.5L (max) of extremely light fuel isn't going to do anything to the fuel/air ratio.

 

What the HHO philosophy is with how it it helps distribute the flame inside the cylinder. What I mean by this is every combustible has a flame rate which is a measure of how fast the flame moves from one point to another. Every substance has a different flame rate. The flame rate for hydrogen is much more than that for vaporized fuel. With this basic understanding, by adding a small amount of hydrogen to the overall mixture (does not need to get even close to even 10%), the hydrogen is going to distribute the flame faster around the cylinder than fuel only. With the hydrogen distributing the flame faster, the fuel in the far reaches of the cylinder will be ignited sooner, leading to more power production since the flame will still not be burning (in theory) as the exhaust valve is opened.

NOw, you mix in the fact that they also start talking about using the "wet water" concept, you can potentially get some more force out of the motor since you are now taking a liquid and converting it to a vapor. In the case of water, 18g of water will convert over to 22.4 L of vapor at STP. So, you have a small volume of water expanding to a large volume of gas. Now, add in the fact that as a gas is heated, it will expand, it will benefit the formation of vapor to power production. But, the amount of water being added is very insignificant in relation to the overall amount of fuel/air that is being used. IF you want some more information on the use of water for improving the efficiency of a motor, do some research on a 6 cycle engine. Most version of this sort of system inject a small amount of water on strokes 5 and 6 to take the stored heat of the block and use that to convert water into vapor, leading to additional power application.

 

Chris,
I'm bowing out of this thread.
While there is no doubt that injection of relatively large volumes of water can increase the power of four stroke engines which are adapted to cope with it and the six stroke engine is an interesting theoretical exercise the amount of anything that can be introduced into the combustion chamber by electrolysis is homeopathic.
Any water vapour carried over would also contain electrolyte (either sulphuric acid or potassium hydroxide).
I think it's best to say there are those who believe this idea has something to offer and those (like me) who don't.
There's nothing wrong with begging to differ !

 

If you speed up the burn process, then without changing the ignition timing, you will lose power, so decrease your mileage.

Here is a nice article that explains scientificaly (at least thats how it looks) how these HHO systems just can't work as promissed. These findings are also in line with the BBC documentary, where a dyno test has shown that the HHO system works best if turned off ;-).
Scientific proof proving that HHO scams are a fraud

 

Steve, by no means am I promoting this idea. Just putting out information and letting people make up their own minds. I tend to think along the same lines as you. Just trying to put a more "common man" understanding of what they are trying to get at with the whole HHO side of things.

Avos, you are correct in that speeding up the burn process will cause a loss of power if you keep the timing where it is. But, modern cars adapt the timing based on how the engine is performing. So, in theory, you can advance the timing some more and net overall more power. I personally do not see how the HHO systems are beneficial. Like was mentioned, I see more damage then benefit.

 

Modern engines aren't that far advanced yet to my knowledge, they would have to understand the pressure curve dynamically (possible via torque measurement) to optimize the ignition timing when changing the combustion characteristics outside for what its programmed to do. But I think we are on the same side of understanding though ;-).

 

Correct. No such thing. The ignition system has no idea how well the engine is performing other than via the knock sensors.

No matter how the HHO enthusiasts spin it, the energy consumed in the splitting of water is always greater than that available from the hydrogen created. Burning gasoline to operate an alternator to power a fuel cell to create hydrogen to burn in the same engine is about as inefficient as it gets.

 

I'd like to hear the hard knocking sounds a HHO unit causes when the dealer Service Manager finds one of these gadgets scabbed onto a Jaguar brought in for warranty work.

I am sure it would be followed by a confetti parade - using your warranty paperwork - right out the door.

 

Anyone care to chime in on the Volo Fs2 from post #21. seems to be getting good reviews (80% of the time) can the computer be altered by tapping into the OBD2 connector?

 

Karaudio23, yes, some of the programmers go in via the OBD port and then they alter the data that the computer is using to retune the computer to alter how it is injecting fuel and adjusting the timing. The thought process is that if you go about things this way, if you have an issue, you can remove the programmer, go back to the dealership to have things fixed and no one is the wiser. Unfortunately, the newer computer have a data logger function built into them and that is one of the first things the techs go after to figure out what is wrong with the car. when they see messed up data, they know something was connected to the car and can void your warrantee if they feel like it. Some dealerships are more forgiving than others.

 

Exactly, and it takes a great leap of faith to presume that a shade tree mechanic can start fiddling with OEM parameters and come away with any tangible improvements.

 

I just replaced the plugs and installed a new cone filter intake to create room for the HHO reservoir

 

I'll likely try the Volo since they offer a money back guarantee all I'd be out is shipping.

 

Personally I just think it's a bunch of baloney for no other reason that it doesn't pass the smell test for me. However, I hope you let us know how it goes when it gets all hooked up and dialed in. 80% satisfaction rate? That seems really poor to me. If I saw that on an E-Bay seller I would run. Good luck.

 

At least the 80% is upfront... could easily hide that info. I'll certainly keep everyone updated on how it all turns out. Ive been getting approx 23mpg combined (good amount of hwy)

 

Keep in mind that the 80% approval rate is from anonymous testimonials posted on THEIR website. Not saying they aren't true, but just that you be wary of something that I would not consider unbiased. Consider the source and the motivation, that's all.

I get at least that mileage with mostly highway driving stock, even in winter.