So far I have removed this bolt 2x while engine in the engine bay and neither with the front clip or radiators removed. Yes it would probably be easier but working on the street, I didn’t want to draw any attention from police or code enforcement and risk getting a tow due to my vehicle not being operational on the public street. But I do plan on installing the new bolt while engine out. First time was actually a PITA.. very difficult to accurately gauge the +270* after torque.
Did you ever get your heads ported? I believe you had previously mentioned that was a possibility.

 

No, but I've been thinking about that a lot recently. I guess one of the reasons I haven't was the cost of used heads - at least on eBay etc - for 5.0SC engines (Jaguar or LR), where's you're basically looking at the best part of 2 grand for something of unknown quality OR pulling the car off the road to have your own done, and despite my car being off the road for some months now (fairly extensive body work, stay tuned) I wasn't quite ready to pull my engine apart again just yet.

That said, I'm certainly no expert on head flow/porting - does anyone who's seen inside the heads have an opinion on whether there's much to be had in the way of improvement? Maybe I'm just naiive but I guess I'd assumed to some extent that modern OEM cad/cam engine design would likely have reduced the window for worthwhile gains from head porting, but absolutely acknowledging my ignorance here.

 

Hey @davetibbs , good to see your still around and doing well. Honestly very interested in seeing that body work you’ve been working on. I’ve wanted to ask if you would ever take on another hood like yours? Or maybe a walk through of the process. I’ve got a few questions/ comments if you had a minute?
I’m taking on the Interchiller kit here soon along with trunk tank/ EMP pump, the stage 2 trans build while I’m getting my engine/ heads Machined at the shop. I was asking about porting because I was debating on getting the heads while they’re already at the machine shop and then possibly sending off the S/C to get ported. If I were to do that, I found some forged Race Valves that are the same diameter/length stem but are +1mm and another set is +2mm valve head diameter. So it would be a 31mm/32mm Exhaust and 37mm/38mm Intake. I’ve just never heard of anyone doing this to these engines so I don’t have any reference and honestly this is my first engine build..
Also had some questions on the Pistons. So I contacted Mahle who actually has the specs from your build but they are 6 months out to have them made.. However, I found a few sets that are same bore for both standard and a slight over bore (possibly needed due to piston damage/ cylinder scoring), same Pin diameter, skirt design, -3cc dishes top, they are made for the Ford 5.0 Coyote motor which is also a 4V Head design so the valve reliefs are in the same spot. But the thing that has me stumped is one set of pistons’ description says they’re for a 10:1 CR. Which I read in the manual that AJ133 is 9.5:1 +/- 0.5. So does this mean it won’t cause severe damage if it were to be ran at 10:1 CR? The only other set I found that could possibly work had a CR of 10.5:1 but the stroke was slightly smaller. I believe it was 92.205mm vs our 93mm. Think that could possibly reduce that CR to be within safe range of our motor? I’m not entirely convinced on my current Boost reading’s accuracy but I’ve seen 29.7PSI using my scanner on Live Data via the “Boost Pressure Raw” PID. This was right before my Mina S/C pulley decided to break and back itself off.. but those pistons I found are all forged and available rather sooner than 6months which is why I’m looking at them. I cracked #4/#8 piston at the same intake valve relief on both after I had my intake tube come off on the freeway right before traffic and IAT got to 190F by the time I could get the car to the side of the road.. talk about Detonation conditions. Well needless to say I’m busy busy with all this and being a single father raising two daughters 100% full time. I’m hoping to get my cars looks fully dialed in when I get the performance up to par. I think engine bay can get cleaned and possibly painted while it’s empty and I plan on getting the whole car painted a new color. Gotta save for that after everything else. Anyways. I’m sorry for such a long reply. I’ve been really busy since the last time we talked back when I first got the car and was doing my timing. Some 2 weeks into ownership.. well I’ll leave it at that. Hope your able to get a chance to reply to this. I look forward to seeing updates on that project you’ve got going. Seems like it’s been a handful from what I remember you telling me a while back. Have a good day.

 

I just got my engine back from the machine shop and can take a few pics if you guys want. I'll be in the shop tomorrow, so I'll post them then. I had originally asked my machinist to port my heads, but as it took almost 6 months to get everything else done....I wasn't willing to tempt fate and wait any longer, plus my guy said he didn't really think it would do much. That said, I'll take a look at the intake runners and see if there's any real "meat" left in the aluminum to open them up for better/more flow.

 

While I'm no @davetibbs I do know a little bit about CR, pistons and SC's. The biggest question you need to answer is how much boost you're going to consistently run. the 9.5:1 CR of the stock engine is measure with no boost what so ever....pushing 30psi, you're probably looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 15:1 CR, maybe higher....which would explain why it went a little too high and it cracked your pistons. I also find myself questioning the 10:1 measurement as these are intended for the coyote engine. While the engines are similar, they're also different, and it could be based off a slightly different piston rod length. For instance, the rods in the coyote engine are straight, and not dog legged like ours. In the AJ133 it may very well be 9.5:1....maybe less....maybe more. It might be worth getting one piston and seeing how it compares....if everything lines up I say run it! You can always dial the boost/fuel down if need be to mange any knock that may arise from the higher compression ratio. Slight edit, I brain farted and completely forgot the biggest difference between the engines, and that's the combustion chamber design. I would image that's where the difference in listed compression ratio is coming from. Evidently the Coyote is 57cc and to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure what the AJ133 is....it's probably similar, but just different enough....

Just my $.02....I wish I would have found the Mahle pistons when I started my engine. Instead I settled for the Apex brand pistons off eBay....which after a little machining appear to fit right....but I haven't run them yet, so who knows how long they'll last....in theory they're forged...but it's eBay....so who knows.

Another little detail if you're going to run stock rods....after months of searching, I finally tracked down the ARP rod bolts that fit our engines....the kit number is 201-6001 (it's for a BMW 4.0L S65 engine). Thankfully it's also a V8 so only one set required....not 2 in the case of an inline 6 especially since they're about $435. ARP is currently out of stock, but I found mine on eBay. They're CA625+ bolts, and I expect they'll hold just fine....better than the stock bolts...or in my case, the bolts that came with my rods....also Apex brand rods....all made in China, then shipped to Russia, and sold out of the UK. (Seriously, couldn't make up that sales trail if I tried!).

Thankfully, as long as the metal is good, my machinist was able to get everything balanced, so it should run fine for a long time....now I just need to get it all back together!

 

Also, I found this little tidbit about the coyote engine....

https://www.diyford.com/ford-coyote-...ormance-guide/

While I don't want to re-open the coyote vs. AJ debate, I feel like the engines are similar enough that the flow gains would also be relatively similar. I will say, I didn't hav e time to compare valve sizes between the 2 engines....that may also be a limiting factor.

 

Hey @tapps33 thanks for the reply. I have lots to talk about on these subjects. I can’t guarantee the accuracy of the boost pressure I had read on my scanner but I believe the sensor is part of the MAP sensor and I would like to think that in order for the car to run efficiently, it would need to use an accurate measurement as with most all sensors used in the engine control. Obviously they do happen to fail from time to time causing misreading but I do know I’m the readings have been consistent through out the time I’ve logged this data. First noticed it when I did the crank pulley after doing timing and it was reading at about 18psi. Then came the ported Snout/ TB, intake tube, cone filters, and a tune. Which is about when I broke 20’s. After that I added the SC pulley (which lasted a few days before I gave it “the dirty 30”.. psi that is.. And that’s when it cracked and backed itself off. But as far as CR goes with that much boost, I honestly have very little experience in that field. Sorta new to most of these in-depth numbers in the name of performance. I do know it was running like a damn freight train though. It would pull nearly the entire range of RPMs. What has me stumped is, how does the Coyote/ VooDoo/ Well I know almost all variants of the Coyote motor have +1mm larger valves. 37mm intake and 31mm exhaust where ours are 30mm and 36mm. Which would be awesome to add even just a little larger valves. Because they’re a more options for strengthening those for their motors. I hope I can figure out if the pistons could work because to be honest, the lack of availability for forged internal parts for the AJ133 especially the SC variant is both frustrating and surprising at the same time. Where the Ford Coyote has the same size bore options and even stroke is only .3mm shorter than ours. So if it does happen to work fine, even with higher CR pistons, depending on where that gain is (rod length or shorter deck height) it would be a whole new market for forged internals for us. If those bigger valves work, port work on the heads and SC would make even more improvements I think. Don’t get me wrong, the intakes are fairly open as it is. Not entirely sure if there’s much to port if I recall correctly. But valve sizes would allow
more intake/ exhaust flow and more boost to match it. I’m not entirely sure what this Interchiller kit will provide in terms of the ability to pack more air in but I’m very interested to at least try to make it work as best as I can. I have to figure out routing the hoses from the trunk and wiring in a controller for the pump and all that fun stuff. Was thinking doing a PWM that could also control a set of Push/Pull fans also. I shall see if there’s a dual output so I don’t get the pump running with the same amperage that fans require. I don’t know if the OEM fan not being plugged in will cause the engine to not run though. I had tried it unplugged when I tried the compression test before heads came off and I couldn’t even get it to start which I’m not entirely sure if that’s fan related or not. I tried both with an aux starter switch AND the Start/Stop with the Accessories ON and battery on the 30a continuous charger. I will have to look into this more if I want to run the fans. I found a set that will flow 4,000cfm max. Next will be finding better exhaust/ engine heat management and then deciding if is should run a larger Intercooler and how I can tie it in to the Interchiller kit because the system calls for deleting this if only doing Drag type use. But I plan to do continuous circuit type driving more than drag strip runs so it would be an additional reserve for those longer runs. Plus it would allow me to run a solenoid to divert the flow from the chiller kit and run the system as it normally operates so it can stay cooled without having to use the chiller kit. Man is there a lot that goes into all this.. I’m sure not having much references to go as a guide isn’t any help but still. Hopefully someone is able to read this down the line and it could be of use. Unfortunately I’m only one man with so many hours available to work/ research so I do invite anyone who happens to stumble on this thread to comment any findings that could Help. Thanks again for your reply/ input @tapps33 look forward to learning more from folks like you. Also, forgot to ask, did you have any failures in your engine that prompted removal or?

 

First off, WOW! You've put some serious work into that car! I also wanted to compliment you on the single dad'ing with 2 kids! I too am semi-single dad'ing it with 2 four year olds. So, I understand where most of your time is actually spent! LOL!

You asked about my project, and well, it's an interesting one. I too have a slight problem with never having enough power and performance. I am actually transplanting the SC 5.0 into my NA 2010 Land Rover LR4....because 375HP is just not enough....I want 700! I was able to source a use Jag 5.0 SC engine for roughly $3K, as it had a "small knock...probably just needs the timing chains replaced." Turns out, the engine had spun the #2 rod bearing. Either way, I was going to rebuild it even if it was running fine. Anytime I transplant, I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm putting in there, plus I want to ensure the highest quality/performing parts in order to make the most power. Granted, I sometimes....ok always over build my engines, it's because if I build the backbone strong enough, I can build more power as time and more importantly money permits without having to go back in and change everything.

I will say, you are absolutely right about the limited options for these engines! I couldn't find much of anything, and you're completely right about the options for the coyote engine! To say my aftermarket knockoff pistons and rods make me nervous would be an understatement. Although, according to Atlantic British, I sourced my stuff from the same suppliers as they do, so who knows. I do know the weights were way off between the rods and we had to do A LOT of balancing to get them all to match. But seriously, if these forged pistons you found fit....I may ditch what I've got and get another set! (I haven't had the time to install my pistons/rods yet.)

Regarding boost, and the 30psi you saw on your gauge. I would argue it may or may not have been correct, but for different reasons than you may think. The MAP sensor, unless you've put a secondary pressure sensor in the intake manifold, is the sole source for boost pressures on these engines. Again, this is assuming stock setup. My guess is that you may have been running more than 30psi of boost. Which would explain why the computer couldn't compensate and you cracked your engine. Long story even longer, when I was tuning/boosting my truck engines, the ECU could only show 36psi of boost. So, my gauge in the cab would read 36psi, even though I was pushing close to 60psi of boost. Thankfully, it that particular application, the ECU had all the maps and timing and even though it was only displaying 36psi, it was actually compensating for the 60psi of boost. I think something similar has happened here. **Anyone who knows more about tuning these engines feel free to chime in**. The only difference is that I don't think tuners would have planned for that much boost on your engine, or the computer couldn't read anything higher than 29 or 30, so the computer wasn't able to compensate quickly enough....and as a result....boom. Or it could simply be that was all the power the stock internals could handle....which goes back to your theory of, "let's swap some heavy duty parts from wherever we can!"

Shifting gears to the intercooler/interchiller, anything you can do to get the intake temperatures down will greatly help your power/efficiency. I did a little research, and according to the folks at fiinterchillers.com, "Every 3*C (5.4*F) reduction in intake temperature equals 1% more oxygen/power. So, if you can cool the intake temp down 30 additional degrees, that's 10% more power available....plus it REALLY helps to reduce knock and pre-detonation. Which is pretty much what kills engines when boosted too high. The only problem is that engines really like to live in the "just prior" to knock/pre-detonation zone because that's where all the power and efficiency is. In theory, the ECU should be able to detect knock, then back the timing off a little to get it to go away, then slowly increase the timing until just before knock and run rather happily in that zone. FYI, this all happens in the millisecond regime. Unfortunately, sometimes, especially in boosted applications, we increase the air/fuel too much, too quickly and the ECU can't compensate fast enough and the engine blows. You probably already know all this, so I'm sorry if I'm preaching to the choir.

I would argue for your application, you need to take it to a tuner and have them build you a custom tune as I don't think any "stock" performance tunes are going to maximize the power and efficiency of everything you've done....mainly because I don't think too many folks have gone that far!

....not gonna lie, I just got my engine back from the machine shop, and now you've got me questioning whether I should take it back and get the bigger valves/forged pistons. I'm already planning on ditching the stock cat's and going with a set of 200 cell catalytic's, followed by a full 3" exhaust to make sure the engine can breath properly. (I'm following the 1" of exhaust per 100HP rule of thumb) ...so if I can upgrade the pistons, and I'm already putting the upper and lower pulleys from Velocity AP on.....hmmmmmm......

 

Dumb question, but I can't find the piston ring gap specs anywhere in the manual? It has a section on what/how to check it, then just says, "reference the specifications chart."

Has anyone else checked this? Or is this a "as long as they fit" type of thing?

 

Yeah, that annoyed me - ditto with PTW clearance. The service manual has all the procedures to measure them but none of the specs that I could find. I followed Mahle's advice for the set of rings they provided me for my pistons (which I think were for a Subaru?) and found the rings met the minimum gap, so no filing required in my case.

 

There’s a gentleman on eBay who’s got tons of OEM parts at a fairly good deal. He has some valve guides which aren’t as cheap as I would’ve hoped given the prices on the rest of his inventory but they’re available and he is certainly knowledgeable in his Jaguars. His name is @Roverpartsdepot13 he has shipped everything out on time so far. Would recommend anyone looking for parts (Pistons both std and +0.50, gaskets, valves, valve parts, etc.) to check him out.

 

​​@davetibbs any chance you remember what the gap was supposed to be....the dealer I bought my pistons from is no longer on eBay....here's my shocked face. So, I'm going to go with, "the rings are probably all close enough that the specs will be very similar"....regardless of who makes them.

On a completely separate note, I have been looking for ways to strengthen the ZF trans I've got, and I discovered that the ZF6HP28 is VERY similar, if not identical to the Ford 6R80....and a lot of people make billet shafts for the Ford trans that I believe will fit ours, and Excedy makes some great performance clutches and steels. That said, if you've got newer vehicles, I don't know what matches the ZF 8 speed trans.

 

funny that you mentioned this. I’m actually midway through this exact trans upgrade myself. I have tons of stuff on this if you’d like I can message you everything I’ve found and kits I’ve found to use. I learned some from a guy who does them in Australia.

 

That would be great! Thank you! I'm literally getting ready to buy the parts and start the rebuild in the next couple of weeks! (I've gotta move from ME to TN in the next few days, but I actually have a spare trans I was going to rebuild, then just swap the mechatronic when I pull my engine out. (FYI, I'm also going to do the Sonnax Zip kit to the mechatronic when I get it out.)

 

I’ll send it all over

 

I'm interested in this too - I have the exedy clutch kit and a spare low-mileage trans ready for rebuild, but haven't had time to start it. Maybe start a thread?

 

dammm 30psi??? That's got to be a really inefficient engine and a really unique supercharger to push 30psi even the chevy guys push these same blowers really hard with aggressive pulley combos an still don't get near 18psi. Did you ever dyno the car? Mine is making close to 700hp to the tire on 11-12 psi

 

Wouldn't you use the Eaton Compressor map? According to this one for the R1900 Shows the charger tops out at 2000 cubic meters per hour. The boost may be able to go to 36-36 PSI absolute pressure but can't amke any more than that. You msut be reading absolute not guage persure (absolute less 14.7) (2.4 bar absolute pressure less 1 bar -14.7 is 21 PSI on the y axis is psi but there is not increase in flow, and flow is what make your car go. Otherwise things start to chole it off, like the throttle body heads vavles exhaust... On this map

 

I have not had the opportunity to get ahold of any remapping/ tuning software or tools to do so. Although I do believe this will be high on my next to buy list. Obviously budget will have to permit this.. but I’ve come across this information regarding MAP sensors and it actually sort of coincides with what @tapps33 had said earlier about the MAP sensor only being able to read X amount. Well I’m not certain about wether my MAP sensor is a 3 BAR or not (not all too familiar with the component although I understand it) but it seems a little coincidental that my MAX Boost Pressure Raw Value is exactly what the max a 3 bar MAP is capable of reading which is 29.7PSI of Boost. So I now do agree that it is very likely that I maxed the sensor out and just boosted higher..
my scanner live data displays “Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor”, “Boost Pressure Raw Value”, and “Intercooler Outlet Air Temperature”. When I was looking for new Sensors I noted that the MAP sensor right at Throttle Body is both MAP and Boost Pressure Sensor and the sensor in the back of manifold measures both Intercooler Air Outlet Temperature and MAP. Not sure if that answers what you were mentioning or not. But given I see all 3 values on live data, I don’t see it reading both and only displaying one value as both.

 

Yes the Ford 6 speed is a copy of the ZF and is built under license from ZF. Not an exact copy but still very close. The interesting thing I found is the Ford units have a short little hidden dipstick? It's on the passenger side and is right next to the exhaust so it's still a pain to get to and operate!
Here is a picture and it requires a socket to get it out.




So at least the Ford guys can check fluid level the old way.
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