hi gents. I've never had a battery issue and it was DEAD (2.5 volts) after sitting for 4 days in garage. it wasn't weak nor has it ever been week. My questions is: what battery draining items can the car not automatically shutoff? i'm thinking a dome light might have been bumped as i backed into garage and operated the garage door from the rearview mirror, but unsure. do the dome lights stay on forever?

 

Its possible that a map light could have been left on. They are supposed to time out once a door has opened and closed, unless it was manually turned on and left on.

First things first - you'll need to charge the battery to full charge, then have it tested. It may just be the battery itself. I've had batteries in the past show no signs of failure or weakness, go down the road to the store, come out and dead battery. If you determine that the battery is ok, then you can move forward and suspect that either something was left on or you have a drain on the battery.

Once the battery is charged and ok, make sure everything in the car is off, and the keys are not left inside. If it still goes dead after a few days, then most likely you have a drain on the battery.

Let us know what you find out with the Battery, if you need to check it for drain, we can walk you through that if need be.

 

 

What is battery age and condition? Must have at least 12.6 volts with the engine off for vehicle to perform normally.

 

If it's the original battery it's now around 8 years old and well past it's use by date.

 

I have a 2011 XF Supercharged and can say it has been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned with the exception of battery issues. I had a dead battery it seemed once a year starting in year 2 of ownership. Each time no real explanation but usually in winter or after been sitting for a few days. However in 2016, I noticed that my overhead light randomly came on one time while driving. I researched and found a TSB about the touch dome lights and how you need to add a foam pad so it doesn't randomly go on. Service had NOT checked this the other 3 previous dead batteries but then fixed after I mentioned it and seemed to be much better after!!! However, yesterday (last new battery was 12/16) the battery was dead again. However, it was within 2 years so gave a replacement under warranty.

What I am told is that these cars don't really like to sit too long which is crazy to me. I haven't been driving it as much and then in short trips but it shouldn't just go dead so quickly. As someone else said, you can't leave your keys in the car b/c the computer will constantly look for the key fob. You also should lock your vehicle each time you leave (even in a garage) because locking will put the computer to sleep. Finally, you should also store your keys away from the car in case it's close enough to be picked up by the car and also cause drain.

What everyone's thoughts on installing non-OEM batteries? To me a battery is a battery as long as it is rated properly. Jaguar would suggest otherwise.

 

You have clearly done your research and know the how and why the vehicle should be garaged in that mode.

All modern Jaguars are very sensitive to battery charge and condition. Many members who don't use their Jaguars as daily drivers keep them on a battery tender (CTEK is the widely preferred brand although the identical and better CTEK's are available at considerably less cost without the Jaguar logo) to avoid this kind of inconvenience.

There's nothing magical about OE Varta brand batteries manufactured in Germany for Jaguar. An alternative of the same physical size so it fits properly and with the same output will be OK. The only limitation is to replace an original AGM with an AGM and an original wet with a wet.

Graham

 

I've had an AGM battery (group H8) in mine for about 6 years without a problem -- it came with a Varta wet battery. You can get one from Autozone, Advance Auto or Pep Boys whichever has the best price.

 

Yep, no problem replacing an older style "wet" flooded cell lead acid battery with an AGM.
The AGM will cost a fair bit more but it will last a lot longer and also recover from low charge better.

 

**update (sorry for the delay): trickle charged it out of car for 2 days with a tiny 12 volt lawnmower trickle charger t obring battery up to 12.25 volts. i don't think the changer would go any further. reinstalled battery and it was fine. have driven it 4 times since and all seems well.**

great point about the touchy dome light and the non locked parked condition. I had the touchy dome light (on and off while driving) but used car dealer i bought it from cleaned the contacts inside housing and i've not noticed it happen inn last year and a half. However it's mid summer and humidity is peaked. i can hover my hand or finger close to the light and it will come on - say about 1/4'' or 3/8'' away.. maybe it cycled on by itself while sitting-- in garage unlocked.. i definitely didn't consider the computer needing to be put to sleep via the car officially being locked, but that is a great point / interesting concept.

 

Hi all. battery has been seemingly wonderful since previous post in mid August. It's been parked for 4 days and I've been pretty consistently locking it up in garage to put it to sleep as better practice since issue in August. Anyway it was unexpectedly very dead again today. 3.2 volts. i put trickle charger on it for 30 seconds with battery still in car. door locks and fuel door actuator went nuts. must have been just enough to run them for the computer to cycle them and self check. Couldn't leave it charging as such so gonna pull battery. Autozone will take battery and charge it, then test it so pulling it out to do so.
Battery is not original, but i also don't know it's age. it's a Duralast H8-DL. 825 CCA so likley their lower end battery and about $130.00
I guess we'll see what they say about the battery, but to me it seems some sort of a random draw that creeps up..
Will likely need to explore Lotus' amp draw proofing idea. or just leave the car running at all times. send gas cards!!

 

Usually there is a date code stamped on the casing or on the terminal itself.

See what Autozone says after charging and testing. It may be that there is a draw, but only pops up in certain conditions ( have had this before on a S-Type ). If the battery tests good, maybe just ask them at Autozone if they can figure out what the manufacture date is of that battery? I'm not sure what Battery life is in New York, but where I'm from ( Houston ) we're lucky to get 4 years due to heat in summer, anything over that would be a miracle.

As for non oem batteries - as mentioned above, you should be ok with something that is reputable, and same ratings as original. Be careful though if your vehicle has ECO STOP/START, as this requires AGM batteries in order to operate correctly, unless you've disabled it. If you don't have that system, then you're fine with wet battery. AGM batteries will be more expensive, but could still be used in a vehicle with no stop/start feature.

Let us know what Autozone say about the battery - once this is confirmed, you can either move forward with a new battery, or will need to start chasing draw on the battery in which you'll need a DVOM aka multimeter. Lots of info on this online, and yes its done the same way on any car, doesn't matter what brand. Some vehicles specifications for allowable draw may differ, but it wont be much. Rule of thumb is about 30 milliamps ( .030 ), anything over that would indicate something is staying powered.

Seeing that you have an XF - I have seen quite a few with the amplifier ( this acts a module and would need to be programmed if needing to be replaced ) for the radio be the issue, but these had a pretty big draw ( just over 1 amp ) after the vehicle attempts to sleep, which should only take about 30 minutes, have to look up the specs in Topix again to make sure.

Before we jump to conclusions - like I said let us know what you find out with Autozone.

 

Hi! my vehicle has no auto stop / start, nor does it have ECO anything! lol. I didn't know that about the glass mat batteries, but thanks for that. when the battery is replaced, I'll definitely spend the long dollar and get the AGM model.
Autozone fully charged the battery from it's depleted 3.xx volts and then load tested it. Gave it a clean bill of health. There was a date sticker of August 2016 - likely installed by the dealer from whom I purchased the car or the auction he purchased it from. I purchased in Jan 2017 at 79,xxx miles and have put maybe 8k miles on it since. often sits for days at a time. Never has it cranked hard or sounded weak doing so. Only twice a dead battery (Aug/Nov 2018) - and fully dead. I suspect something that is a bit of a phantom draw. i watched a few vids as was suggested on testing for electrical draw / bleed. I haven't done these just yet, since i don't think there's such a draw, but i did document the following:
Sat 11-10-18
8am reinstalled battery at 12.6 volts after getting back from Autozone and then topping off overnight with trickle charger
9am 12.43 volts on battery after driving for 50 min.
12pm 12.58 volts after sitting 3 hrs
30 min round trip around 1pm
340pm 12.55 volts after sitting for couple hours
Sun 11-11-18
9am after sitting all night locked, 12.51 volts. Note chilly garage - maybe 30F
Mon 11-12-18
6am after sitting for 36hrs.12.46 volts. 27F
1pm 12.47 volts after continuation of sitting since Saturday.
(2) 10 min drives around 2pm.

so there are only (2) non factory wirings
- a radar detector that is wired in with the mirror and turns off with key
- my electric exhaust flappers that are on a 2 amp fuse, but direct to the battery

i do wonder if the cutouts are the culprit, but not sure. all i can think is that they need to index to fully open or closed positions and maybe sometime they get confused and keep trying to stroke in a direction? I will likely be soon wring them to operate off the key, rather than direct to battery.

from the lack of voltage drop on the battery, I'm looking for any insights since i don't see reason to suspect any improper draw.

back in August when it went dead, i did have an OBD2 bluetooth performance guage plugged in for 10 days. I've since retrned it to its owner and it was not in play for the recent battery depletion.

back in August i wan't locking the car in garage and putting it "to sleep"

thanks!!

 

Can you disconnect the cutouts to try and eliminate them

Your voltage sounds a bit low. After 50min driving your battery should still be fully charged (over 12.6V). Yours is around 80pc. Either some high draw while you're driving or maybe alternator isn't working properly?

 

+1 - That's the first thing you need to check when chasing a battery issue or a battery quiescent (amp) draw issue, is the vehicle fitted with aftermarket accessories? If so, these need to be disabled and then check again for any amp draw on the battery once vehicle is asleep.

From the readings you posted, as Britcars mentioned, you've got a really high draw while car is running or your alternator is not charging the battery sufficiently. After driving it a short time and testing it straight away you should be closer to 13v, not 12.43v.

I would recommend that you disable the radar detector and cut outs, and retest. If you still get below 12.6 after driving it almost an hour, then I would suspect you have a charging issue ( alternator or cables ) , however you should get a warning on the dash for this, but it may not be below the threshold to trigger the warning.

 

Honestly the battery is bad, unless you have something directly wired to the battery it's almost impossible to have a parasitic without throwing a code on the XF, From the service manual

BATTERY MONITORING SYSTEM - SINGLE AND DUAL BATTERY SYSTEM VEHICLES
When the ignition is off (power mode 0), the BMS control module records the primary battery state of charge and begins to
monitor the battery condition from this point.
If the battery state of charge falls by 7%, the BMS control module will monitor the primary battery for 5 minutes. If after the 5
minute monitoring period, the primary battery charge has continued to fall due to the quiescent drain current being too high,
the BMS control module will determine that some control modules are still 'awake'. The BMS control module sends a shutdown
message on the LIN (local interconnect network) bus to the GWM (Gateway Module). The GWM sends a CAN (controller area
network) bus message on both the medium and high speed networks to all control modules, requesting them to shutdown.
The BMS control module will monitor the primary battery state of charge for a further 5 minutes and determine if the primary
battery state of charge is still dropping. If a quiescent drain current continues, the primary battery state of charge will
continue to drop. If the state of charge falls to 12% of the initial monitoring value, the BMS control module determines that
one or more control modules are still awake and a failure to respond to the shutdown request may indicate an error state
within the control module(s).
BMS Low Battery Warning and Energy Management Messages
The BMS continuously monitors the condition of the primary vehicle battery. If excessive battery discharge occurs, the system
will begin to shut down non-essential electrical systems in order to protect the battery.
If the BMS calculates that battery condition is not within set parameters, there are 3 messages that can be displayed, 2 on the
touch screen and 1 on the message center. These inform the user that the battery is either at a low level of charge or the
engine-off power consumption limit has been exceeded.
Low Battery - Please switch engine on or system will shutdown in 3 minutes: is displayed as a Warning on the
touch screen if the engine is not running. This indicates that the battery has fallen below a predefined threshold. As
soon as the battery is charged back above this threshold then the message will be removed.
Low Battery - Please start your engine is displayed on the message center if the engine is not running. This indicates
that the battery has fallen below a predefined threshold. As soon as the battery is charged back above this threshold
then the message will be removed or it can be manually removed by pressing 'OK'.
System will shut down in 3 minutes: is displayed as an Energy management on the touch screen if the engine is not
running, and system features are causing excessive battery discharge. After 3 minutes the BMS will begin shutting
down vehicle systems. Normal system operation will resume when the engine is started.
This is based on a percentage of battery capacity available for the customer to use with the engine off. The percentage can
change based upon several factors.
Once triggered, the resetting of this message will not occur until the vehicle is driven for 10 minutes with the engine running
(to allow the battery to recoup any lost charge). However, if the engine is run for less than 10 minutes, the message will only
be displayed after an additional 5 minutes with the ignition on but engine off.

Simply put your battery is taking but not holding a charge, and actually I just went through the same thing LAST WEEKEND..lol My tester showed a charge of 91% and 800 CCA available on Sat, as I got the message of low batt just for a spit second last Thursday when I wasn't even running anything, put the car on my maintain charger and it went green in 10 min WT* that's too fast, Monday morning I couldn't even unlock the doors with the key fob. A simple load test won't always catch a shorted battery. And NEVER try and charge a low (<11.5v) battery with the Alt. In addition to battery state, The XF monitors alt output and temp so a simple voltage check on a run car may not be accurate, But if your battery was low say from a bad alt, the battery discharge is usually slower and more noticeable like slow starts, not immediate so my $$$ is on a bad batt.

 

as always, thanks for the reply. autozone says battery is fine and it's not seeming to slowly discharge (except when it's fully discharged..). I'm thinking the exhaust cutouts may sometimes not index fully or something like that. they are wired directly with a 2 amp fuse. it's possible they are the culprit.. it's only happened twice and the scenario is a completely dead battery measured at 3.xx volts. both times i removed battery and charged it slowly externally and then it was fine. Never a slow or weak cranking of engine. I'm going to make the cutouts powered off the key and then take it from there.. they've been installed for 21 months approx and this has happened only twice. no other signs whatsoever is what both puzzles me and seems to indicate the source. i did use a throttle doby / intake valve cleaner on the seats of the cutout disks in case any carbon buildup prevents them shutting all the way.. I'll suspend any futher diagnostic venture until i eliminate this variable and then it happens again. It is true that my battery isn't new by any standard and the alternator has 88k on it..

 

hi all. small update. wired the electric cutouts to be live only when ignition / acc circuits are live. used a circuit tap in trunk fuse box. So that variable is now eliminated.

to my knowledge, there are now no non factory wirings present when ignition is off.

battery seems to live at 12.3X or 12.4X volts when can is off with no load, 11.8X to 11.9x volts indicated is door is open and interior lights are on / whatever else is "waking up"

high 13 volts to low 14 volt when running.

I'll update if goes dead during winter months or if cranks hard / etc. still unsure as to why went all the way dead twice, and seemingly randomly - but this time it won't be the cutouts..

 

If it's down at 11.x volts with just the interior lights on it is a dead battery
13 or 14 V when car is running is meaningless as that's the alternator you're measuring. Not the battery

You really should replace it
If not the battery then it's not being charged properly
Either way you still have an issue

 

Yep, 13-14v running means the alt is working, but I'm betting the deep cycling from the cut out drain is what killed your batt with a drop to 11v on an open door.
I just got the size H8 or group 49 AGM Everstart battery last week from Walmart for my XFR to replace the 4 year old Die Hard Gold. Less than $150, 5 year warr, easy to return if need be, made by Johnson Controls. Loving it so far. Just left a great review at Walmart.com