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Make no mistake, I love my 2011 XF-R. There's nothing quite like it. When you're behind the wheel, it's a Charlie Sheen level of Winning. Unfortunately, the repair bills hit my bank account as if Charlie Sheen swiped my credit card and went on a weekend bender in Vegas. So, I have reached a point where I need to decide whether to keep the car. It only has 76k miles on it, which is super low given it's age. It has had it's share of typical issues, but has been well maintained and never once left me stranded. My dilemma is this -- I've spent $8-10k in maintenance (a big chunk of that in the last two years) and it needs another $3000+ if I want to address the handful of remaining issues (replace seat heater and bluetooth modules, intake, driveshaft, etc).
Ideally, I throw some coin at it and get another 2-3 years of enjoyment out of it. On the other hand, the hits could keep on coming. As you know, NOTHING on this car is cheap to replace and qualified technicians are hard to come by (especially out here in the pacific northwest).
For those with older, higher mileage 5.0L XF's, what are your thoughts?
On one hand, I love the car. On the other, I'm concerned that it's going to continue to be a money pit... though not having a car payment (it is close to being paid off) will make the repair bills a little more palatable.
If you are wondering about maintenance history, here is a breakdown of what has gone wrong and been fixed, as well as major maintenance items that have been completed:
- Water pump + coolant reservoir replaced at 58k (due to bearing failure and leak)
- Sway bar end links and rear lower control arms replaced at 65k
- Spark plugs changed at 70k
- Rotors + pads replaced at 70k
- New transmission pan, filter, gasket, and fluid at 70k (due to transmission fluid leak)
- New coolant hoses throughout at 76k (due to multiple coolant leaks)
- Fluids and filters changed at or ahead of scheduled intervals
What needs to be done at present (though some can be deferred depending on need):
- Replace intake due to brittle/cracking plastic ($300)
- Replace driveshaft due to thump when on/off throttle ($2200)
- Replace bluetooth and drivers seat heater modules ($300)
- Front upper control arms (Cost TBD -- assuming not cheap)
- A/C compressor replacement or other A/C system work (Cost TBD -- also probably not cheap)
- Replace drive belts ($175?)
- Replace hood lifts ($60?)
- Replace battery ($150, getting up there in age)
Let me know what you think. Do the benefits outweigh the risks?
With the exception of the drive line, all the other prices if parts are included are not that bad. If you turned wrenches you'd save a bunch. You will need the rear water crossover done eventually too, super charger needs to come off for that, pricey at the dealer.
Pretty sure Big Will had his center mount changed out by a driveshaft specialist as well. Worth considering as a cheaper alternative.
I thought the center support might be bad too, but it was fine, Guibo and trans mount where shot. Same for a couple other XF's and XJ's I've seen with thumping issues. And as you've said Dave, ANY competent drive line shop can rebuild his drive line for a fraction of Jags cost.
Your only problem is that you are taking a 9 year old Jaguar to a dealership for repairs. They are soaking you as they all do.
Never go near a dealer for out of warranty work. Find a Jaguar mechanic with a good reputation. Ask your local Jaguar Club if you have trouble finding the good shop in your area.
I wouldn't be surprised if you paid north of $2K for brakes to the dealer when the aftermarket parts work better (ceramic pads that don't dust, brake just as well, and don't wear out the rotors) for a fraction of that price. I can change the pads and rotors all the way around my car for about $400 in parts. And they will last 60K miles, not 25K miles.
You probably paid $500 for each lower control arm just for the parts. I put new ones for $50 each including tax and shipping for the parts, and the parts looked just as good as the original ones (which aren't great from the start or they wouldn't have failed at 70K miles). They are easy to replace so it doesn't make sense to pay 10 times the parts prices.
Your transmission leak was really an overdue transmission service by 70K. That's not cheap for the pan and the fluid ($400-500 in parts for OEM), but I wouldn't be surprised if you paid a ton for the job.
The plastic coolant hoses are basic mechanic work, so the labor on that was probably ridiculous. The parts have to be OEM, so you are stuck paying for those parts.
You can buy a new AC compressor kit with everything you need, new not used, for around $400. Wait to fall off your chair when the dealer tells you what they are going to charge you for a compressor. Any shop can do that work.
Get a second opinion on the driveshaft. Bet that doesn't need to be $2200.
can you please post a link to the lower control arms
Just wanted to post this but I see now that you will be taking your car to someone for repair.
That for sure will add a lot of cost.
But suspension bushings can and do wear they're just a common repair on all cars. Jaguar as well as many manufacturers always want to sell you a new arm.
But we all know these beautiful forged Aluminum suspension arms do not wear just the bushings. Always seemed like such a waste as they don't want the old ones returned for cores?
If you interested PowerFlex USA has almost all the suspension bushings for your XF and XFR's. The have them for most other Jaguar's too.
One thing to know about PowerFlex is that the black material are the track bushings and purple are the street versions.
You will notice there are several in black only. They have found these bushings need the harder material to hold up.
They also claim no noise or vibration but there will always be a trade off by going to harder bushings.
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Item NoDescriptionQuantity Unit Price Disc. Amount Amount
19320027-101 Pre-Boxed Control Arm Kit 1 $99.95$0.00 $99.95
I would want this to be real, but it looks too good to be since no vehicle fitment detail and works out to $50 per arm. The other one they have with picture and Jag fitment confirmation is over $225 per arm. Prices all over the place on this site, but its interesting. The curved arms would work though, hopefully not from china.
The go-to for these used to be Berkshire Jag Components since they use the OEM Lemforder rubber, even offering refurbished at discount but they no longer ship to the US. It shouldn't be so hard to get a Lemforder overhaul kit for front/rear of this car which wears out after about 5 years/50k miles depending on climate.
As cars age, right around 8 year mark, maintenance costs pick up. Look up bathtub curve. I have taken cars past this point, and it usually has couple bad years where everything seems to go. Once you sort it all out, you will have another ~6 years until round 2.
There are two things that cannot be truly fixed - loss of compression and rust. If you are OK on both fronts, keep going. It is cheaper than buying a new car. However, you need to set aside money each month, like you would with a lease, so you can deal with big issues.
Also, since your 2011 car is now 10 years old, there should be no original fluids left in the car. Things like differential fluid, power steering fluid, supercharger oil... all can and should be changed. Or parts will fail.
Add timing chains as a show stopper for the XF V8’s and probably V6’s. Just too low a probability to get them fixed right.
Originally Posted by SinF
As cars age, right around 8 year mark, maintenance costs pick up. Look up bathtub curve. I have taken cars past this point, and it usually has couple bad years where everything seems to go. Once you sort it all out, you will have another ~6 years until round 2.
There are two things that cannot be truly fixed - loss of compression and rust. If you are OK on both fronts, keep going. It is cheaper than buying a new car. However, you need to set aside money each month, like you would with a lease, so you can deal with big issues.
Also, since your 2011 car is now 10 years old, there should be no original fluids left in the car. Things like differential fluid, power steering fluid, supercharger oil... all can and should be changed. Or parts will fail.
I was skeptical at first so I bought one set of $99 and another set of $300.
When they arrived the $99 set looked better than the $300 set, so I returned them for another $99 set. Both installed, aligned, and drove great on my 2 XF’s.
These are simple control arms, not complex arms with ball joints. The OEM doesn’t last long, so spending $1000 on OEM is silly. They are pretty easy to change.
Originally Posted by litteredwithfaults
I would want this to be real, but it looks too good to be since no vehicle fitment detail and works out to $50 per arm. The other one they have with picture and Jag fitment confirmation is over $225 per arm. Prices all over the place on this site, but its interesting. The curved arms would work though, hopefully not from china.
The go-to for these used to be Berkshire Jag Components since they use the OEM Lemforder rubber, even offering refurbished at discount but they no longer ship to the US. It shouldn't be so hard to get a Lemforder overhaul kit for front/rear of this car which wears out after about 5 years/50k miles depending on climate.
ive avoided this thread at all costs because i knew it would give me anxiety, now that ive sold my XF, i can breathe....and looking at this thread, ive made the right decision. I truly loved the car, but that damn timing chain and thump i keep hearing was keeping me up at night.
Well, I bid my beloved XF-R goodbye the other day. Simply too much anxiety about future repair costs.
I ended up getting an I-Pace and am now having anxiety about range and charging the thing. Seems like a giant pain in the **** so far... so much so that I'm talking with the dealership hoping they will take it back in favor of something else. It's a stunning car, but Range Anxiety is a real problem. :/
To tie up the suspension parts on this thread, the BuyAutoParts package came and the parts are all the same banana arms. So the 93-20027 K1 and 93-80269 K1 kit part numbers mentioned here are the same thing. The other half of the wishbone is actually 93-80546 K1 and is priced like OEM. Might as well hunt elsewhere because there is zero tags or branding on these parts so probably chinese, really not a different gamble than just getting the cheap "deutschepartsusa" kits on ebay that break within months.
The only real stuff is Lemforder and all the uppers can be Motorcraft at a tiny discount. It would be fine if it lasted the rest of the life of the car, but even the best replacement parts are short lived, by design. I'll be bidding it farewell too before it starts clunking again.
Well, I bid my beloved XF-R goodbye the other day. Simply too much anxiety about future repair costs.
I ended up getting an I-Pace and am now having anxiety about range and charging the thing. Seems like a giant pain in the **** so far... so much so that I'm talking with the dealership hoping they will take it back in favor of something else. It's a stunning car, but Range Anxiety is a real problem. :/
curious to know the XFR sale details. im kicking myself in the behind for my trade-in, i didnt push hard enough
Well, I bid my beloved XF-R goodbye the other day. Simply too much anxiety about future repair costs.
I ended up getting an I-Pace and am now having anxiety about range and charging the thing. Seems like a giant pain in the **** so far... so much so that I'm talking with the dealership hoping they will take it back in favor of something else. It's a stunning car, but Range Anxiety is a real problem. :/
Definitely take back the I-Pace and get a Tesla.
The other car companies are so far behind, it doesn’t make sense to be the one to fund them playing catchup.
I just picked up a Model 3 Long Range All Wheel Drive yesterday before the tax breaks ended for Tesla.
Instead of 260 mile range for the Jag, I have 320, which makes a big difference in range anxiety. And then there is the Tesla Supercharger network, which is a game changer since they charge much faster and easier than the other public chargers. The special charging network adds a sense of security that you can go anywhere.
The model 3 is a little wider than the XF, but a foot shorter. It still has more interior room though because of the packaging without a big gasoline engine, trans and diff, and it has two trunks for much more storage than an XF.
It costs a lot less than the I-Pace, it goes faster, and wows people more with it’s wild interior design and it’s ipad-on-wheels tech.
Last edited by lotusespritse; 12-27-2019 at 10:08 AM.
curious to know the XFR sale details. im kicking myself in the behind for my trade-in, i didnt push hard enough
Mine was a 2011 that had 77k miles and lots of recent work done on it by the same dealership that did the trade-in. They gave me $17k for it, though I'm sure some of that was offset by the markdown on the I-Pace.
The other car companies are so far behind, it doesn’t make sense to be the one to fund them playing catchup.
I just picked up a Model 3 Long Range All Wheel Drive yesterday before the tax breaks ended for Tesla.
Instead of 260 mile range for the Jag, I have 320, which makes a big difference in range anxiety. And then there is the Tesla Supercharger network, which is a game changer since they charge much faster and easier than the other public chargers. The special charging network adds a sense of security that you can go anywhere.
The model 3 is a little wider than the XF, but a foot shorter. It still has more interior room though because of the packaging without a big gasoline engine, trans and diff, and it has two trunks for much more storage than an XF.
It costs a lot less than the I-Pace, it goes faster, and wows people more with it’s wild interior design and it’s ipad-on-wheels tech.
The deal is done, so I can't simply take the car back... unless you know something I don't.
Mine was a 2011 that had 77k miles and lots of recent work done on it by the same dealership that did the trade-in. They gave me $17k for it, though I'm sure some of that was offset by the markdown on the I-Pace.
Jag pretty much have to giveaway the I-Pace, so I am sure they had a lot of extra mfg to dealer incentives to help inflate your trade in.
Well, I got $21k off the sticker price plus the $7500 tax credit, so my lease payment is less than some people are paying for a Honda... I can't complain too much. It's fully loaded, drives like a Jag should, and the fit and finish are what you'd expect from a car in this price range -- superior even to a Tesla Model X. My only gripe is the range. With a 90kwh battery, you'd expect more than 200 miles from a charge, but that's what I'm getting. I can eek out a little more if I use Eco mode. My guess is the 3 different screens, likely controlled by 3 different computers and probably built for petrol powered cars, aren't the most energy efficient in the world. What else might contribute to this is anybody's guess.
Fingers crossed that we get some range boosting software updates in the not-too-distant future.
I did heavily consider a Model 3, but this deal was too good to pass up. I'll enjoy it for awhile and probably trade it for a Tesla in a year or two. Their build quality and range will only improve and there will undoubtedly be tons of used ones flooding the market by then.
Well, I got $21k off the sticker price plus the $7500 tax credit, so my lease payment is less than some people are paying for a Honda... I can't complain too much. It's fully loaded, drives like a Jag should, and the fit and finish are what you'd expect from a car in this price range -- superior even to a Tesla Model X. My only gripe is the range. With a 90kwh battery, you'd expect more than 200 miles from a charge, but that's what I'm getting. I can eek out a little more if I use Eco mode. My guess is the 3 different screens, likely controlled by 3 different computers and probably built for petrol powered cars, aren't the most energy efficient in the world. What else might contribute to this is anybody's guess.
Fingers crossed that we get some range boosting software updates in the not-too-distant future.
I did heavily consider a Model 3, but this deal was too good to pass up. I'll enjoy it for awhile and probably trade it for a Tesla in a year or two. Their build quality and range will only improve and there will undoubtedly be tons of used ones flooding the market by then.
Its a good deal. Can you claim the Federal tax credit of $7500 when you lease the car? I was thinking its not
11-09-2019, 10:00 AM
