Make no mistake, I love my 2011 XF-R. There's nothing quite like it. When you're behind the wheel, it's a Charlie Sheen level of Winning. Unfortunately, the repair bills hit my bank account as if Charlie Sheen swiped my credit card and went on a weekend bender in Vegas. So, I have reached a point where I need to decide whether to keep the car. It only has 76k miles on it, which is super low given it's age. It has had it's share of typical issues, but has been well maintained and never once left me stranded. My dilemma is this -- I've spent $8-10k in maintenance (a big chunk of that in the last two years) and it needs another $3000+ if I want to address the handful of remaining issues (replace seat heater and bluetooth modules, intake, driveshaft, etc).

Ideally, I throw some coin at it and get another 2-3 years of enjoyment out of it. On the other hand, the hits could keep on coming. As you know, NOTHING on this car is cheap to replace and qualified technicians are hard to come by (especially out here in the pacific northwest).

For those with older, higher mileage 5.0L XF's, what are your thoughts?

On one hand, I love the car. On the other, I'm concerned that it's going to continue to be a money pit... though not having a car payment (it is close to being paid off) will make the repair bills a little more palatable.

If you are wondering about maintenance history, here is a breakdown of what has gone wrong and been fixed, as well as major maintenance items that have been completed:
- Water pump + coolant reservoir replaced at 58k (due to bearing failure and leak)
- Sway bar end links and rear lower control arms replaced at 65k
- Spark plugs changed at 70k
- Rotors + pads replaced at 70k
- New transmission pan, filter, gasket, and fluid at 70k (due to transmission fluid leak)
- New coolant hoses throughout at 76k (due to multiple coolant leaks)
- Fluids and filters changed at or ahead of scheduled intervals

What needs to be done at present (though some can be deferred depending on need):
- Replace intake due to brittle/cracking plastic ($300)
- Replace driveshaft due to thump when on/off throttle ($2200)
- Replace bluetooth and drivers seat heater modules ($300)
- Front upper control arms (Cost TBD -- assuming not cheap)
- A/C compressor replacement or other A/C system work (Cost TBD -- also probably not cheap)
- Replace drive belts ($175?)
- Replace hood lifts ($60?)
- Replace battery ($150, getting up there in age)

Let me know what you think. Do the benefits outweigh the risks?

 

Do not replace your driveshaft. The part that wears, the guibo, is not sold separately by Jaguar, hence the quoted price, but you can find a new guibo to replace individually online for around $100. @Bigg Will , as always, has done a great thread on this. Also make sure the thump is not caused by worn transmission/engine mounts.

 

According to the dealer, the thump I'm hearing isn't due to the guibo, but from the center mount going bad. I've had multiple techs tell me the engine and transmission mounts are in good shape.

 

Pretty sure Big Will had his center mount changed out by a driveshaft specialist as well. Worth considering as a cheaper alternative.

 

pretty car!

I've been weighing the value proposition of mine since purchase. Every time i think about putting it up for sale, i go for "one last drive" and it performs like no other car i could replace it with for a similar pile of cash.

you have a few things factoring against your tolerance of financial outlay
- you are paying interest on a car b/c of payments - that adds extra cost..
- not sure when you bought, but the 1st 2 owners of my car absorbed 50k of depreciation, but these cars still depreciate quite fast as far as a % of purchase price
- you are paying for more car insurance b/c you have to carry full collision when you have a bank loan
- you are paying your dealer at a rate of 300k a year if they are charging 150/hr. I assume most of the active folks on here own their cars outright and work on them for free labor where possible - also sounds like this dealer has been bleeding you or perhaps you're like me and every little noise bugs you so maybe you are initiating the pesky service costs

are you going to run out and have a bank buy another car for you on payments? after owning this car, will it be a performance oriented machine that has similar "high" running costs? if you buy another luxury car it will have all the same crap going on and similar dealer vs. your wallet experiences

yeah, your struggle is that you've spent a lot of cash you'll not get back and what to do about that emotionally and financially

these cars are not appliances, they are luxury items and toys and status symbols if we're all real about it. they may travel down the road with all the other appliances and take you from A to B, but we each have to weigh the worth it factor.

something I'm tying to put into play for myself is a litmus test of "does it feel heavy". if it feels like a heavy weight to keep the car, it's either not for me OR not for me right now

sounds like you've moved diagonally across the country - as we come into winter, is a rear drive car sensible for you anymore?

so, my friend that I've never met, those are just my humble and honest thoughts - best wishes to you!

 

Your only problem is that you are taking a 9 year old Jaguar to a dealership for repairs. They are soaking you as they all do.

Never go near a dealer for out of warranty work. Find a Jaguar mechanic with a good reputation. Ask your local Jaguar Club if you have trouble finding the good shop in your area.

I wouldn't be surprised if you paid north of $2K for brakes to the dealer when the aftermarket parts work better (ceramic pads that don't dust, brake just as well, and don't wear out the rotors) for a fraction of that price. I can change the pads and rotors all the way around my car for about $400 in parts. And they will last 60K miles, not 25K miles.

You probably paid $500 for each lower control arm just for the parts. I put new ones for $50 each including tax and shipping for the parts, and the parts looked just as good as the original ones (which aren't great from the start or they wouldn't have failed at 70K miles). They are easy to replace so it doesn't make sense to pay 10 times the parts prices.

Your transmission leak was really an overdue transmission service by 70K. That's not cheap for the pan and the fluid ($400-500 in parts for OEM), but I wouldn't be surprised if you paid a ton for the job.

The plastic coolant hoses are basic mechanic work, so the labor on that was probably ridiculous. The parts have to be OEM, so you are stuck paying for those parts.

You can buy a new AC compressor kit with everything you need, new not used, for around $400. Wait to fall off your chair when the dealer tells you what they are going to charge you for a compressor. Any shop can do that work.

Get a second opinion on the driveshaft. Bet that doesn't need to be $2200.

 

If you love the car then keep it but do understand the high maintenance costs . I have done the ATM change also the water pump and super charged oil change also diff oil change and a few new tyres as well as 4 new rotors and pads all in last year or 2 . next job for me is changing out the belts and spark plugs in next 2 year. i love the car and plan to keep it . good luck

 

Oh, and your seat heater modules most likely do not need to be replaced. The plastic tube is probably cracked and can be repaired with duct tape. Once the plastic flex tube cracks enough, the modules automatically shut down to save themselves from the disrupted airflow.

 

I don't have a garage or a paved driveway, so that limits that I can do to the car myself. I'm also not super comfortable taking things apart since if I break it, I'd have to have it towed somewhere to be worked on -- and I don't have a second vehicle.

I've had a whale of a time finding a competent mechanic here in metro-Seattle. The one I did find was only $25/hr cheaper than the dealer and didn't instill much confidence...

 

Where did I tell you to do it yourself? I can already tell you are not capable of doing this type of work yourself because no one that DIY's would ever take a 9 year old Jaguar to the dealership to be ripped off.

Did you check with the local Jaguar Club for mechanics? They will know, and there's bound to be a Jag Club in your state.

Oh, and hourly rate has very little to do with the price you pay. Dealerships will invent all sorts of work that needs to be done to pad the hours, and then they will charge you through the nose for parts that you an independent shop could have sold you at a fraction of the price. Please review the difference in price that I listed for a front lower control arm above to better understand.

Please read my replies carefully so you get the value from them.

 

Where is the tube located? Underneath or do I need to remove the seat back?

 

I bought the car when it was 4 years old and had a mere 34k on the ODO. Was half the price of new! I've got < $10k of payments left on the thing -- will be paid off in Feb 2021, which is so close yet so far.

If I get another car, I am considering leasing. Yes, it means I will have a payment forever, but I won't have to worry about costly maintenance. If I do buy, I will have to take out a loan. I'd probably go with a Tesla Model 3 since there's so little that can wear out on it.

"does it feel heavy"? To a degree. Really just the nagging fear that that the costly repairs will keep on coming. And yes, rear wheel drive is just fine out here.

 

I appreciate the feedback thus far, but my primary question really hasn't been answered.

If you have an older XF, what problems should one expect after 10+ years. Specifically, I'm thinking about costly things like electrical issues, differentials, blowers, fans, alternator, A/C, or serious stuff with the engine/supercharger. What is your experience? Are you aware of any common issues as these cars reach their golden years?

I know anything CAN go wrong, but I'm looking for commonalities.

 

Engine timing chains is the big one. Expect at least $5K at a good independent as it's a horrible job.

With the supercharger, you may have to get the snout replaced at some point. Probably $2K. I don't know since I don't have a supercharger (thankfully!).

Those are the big ones with the Jag XF, but anything can fail on any car.

Since your car is worth next to nothing in resale value, and buying or leasing an equivalent new car is going to cost you close to $6K-$10K/year, you are better off keeping your car and rolling the dice on repair costs. You just have to find a way to get away from dealer repairs.

 

When do you know the timing chain and supercharger snout need attention? By time, mileage, or until you encounter some sort of telltale sound/sign?

 

When they wear beyond a certain point they both rattle like crazy.
With the SC snout it's the torsion isolator/coupler which wears (it sits between the snout and the body of the SC) and then the spring inside it starts to rattle, sounding like a couple of marbles in a tin can. Very loud on cold start up and idle but fades a bit as the engine warms. It's an irregular rattle not at all rhythmical. Another common symptom of this is a loud "clonk" from the top of the engine when you shut it down, that noise is made by the coupler spring rebounding, the worse it wears the more often you get the "clonk".
The timing chain rattle is lower down and higher pitched and more regular and sometimes almost goes away when the engine is warm.
Another cause of an engine rattle is the high pressure fuel pumps. There are two of them low down at the front of the engine and the secondary one tends to go first, and it sounds very similar to a rattling timing chain.
Last but not least the SC belt tensioner can wear and start rattling.
Because all of these rattles are at the front of the engine it can be hard to diagnose which one is the culprit, but a mechanic's stethoscope can help especially with the SC coupler rattle as that is up top not down below.
Don't confuse any of these rattles with the normal fuel injector tick tick tick, that's just how high pressure direct injection fuel injectors sound.

 

Awesome. Thanks for the detailed feedback. Luckily, <knock on wood> I don't have any of these issues yet. Do they occur within a specific time frame or mileage? The car will be 10 years old come March, though it will still have less than 80k miles.

Should I be concerned with the electrics? I've already lost bluetooth and the driver's seat heater.

 

Can't say I would replace stuff just because of mileage or time?
Is the AC compressor bad?

Fluid changes are just good maintenance so glad to see that.
I would add change the rear end fluid, PS fluid and I like to replace and/or flush the brake fluid.

Since you have had some cooling problems fixed hopefully they did a coolant change too?

When I went off warranty I cut the oil drain intervals in half. I still think 15K is too long of a service interval.
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none of us "should" worry - worry is a disease.. but we all do to a degree.. i think you are just trying to be a good steward of your finances while enjoying the splurge that is a powerful and complexity laden luxury car. as another poster alluded, the car is not worth a ton in the resale market and you can still get a lot of smiles out of it for what it will cost you. i've had mine for 3 yrs with the driver seat not heating or cooling. i pulled the seat back off and repaired the duct, but who knows it might still be the same issue. over the next 3 yrs, if you spend 15k on repairs, that will be far less costly than the lease you are talking about. the lease covers you on repairs, but you have less in your pocket at the end of the day - so did you succeed whatsoever in your goal of financial stewardship and prudence? unless you need a new engine or transmission, these cars will continue to represent a major performance value for years. re: bluetooth - it's not a great feature anyway - more of a 1st gen as far as call clarity and such, with no BT streaming capability. no huge loss.

most of these issues never happen to most of the cars, some of them to some cars, some to all at some point, but it's variable.

the supercharger snout and isolator will need replacement between 80k and 100k if they've not been done. it's a definite rattle on top of the engine and i noticed it mostly when turning off the engine. the dampening spring is loose and allows the rattle / marble sound as the pulley and supercharger lobed match/mismatch/match speeds for a couple revolutions. nothing catastrophic will happen if this happens for a bit

coolant pipes that fail - i read about most of these issues from the hotter climates where heat cycles are more extreme. stil good insurance to keep up on them

water pumps - we hear of all the horror stories on the forum, but who knows. you've owned yours for a while and may have more info to offer than some others

timing chain - who knows. you know how often you had the oil changed - did you stretch it out to 10k or 15k miles or much sooner - fresh oil is great insurance with an engine like this. i thought i had that issue for a while, but I'm confident that my sound is just the natural sounds of mechanical high pressure fuel pumps.

Mike, I'm not the teacher and you're not the student - i fret and worry about every noise and possibility just as you do. If we're all real about it, that's why we keep returning to the forum when we have no current issues. and it's fun to learn about these cars as there's lots of brilliant engineering in them. rolling masterpieces that can and will fail at times.

drive the car and enjoy it. find an independent shop to look it over once a year and to do an oil change at and in between annual inspections. buy an expensive aftermarket warranty for 6k - 8k and let them bear the cost of major potential repairs while you chip in a small copay if that makes you sleep better

if you sell it at market value or give it to a deserving person for free after 3 yrs, you'll have lost less money that the lease you refer to and you'll then own just as many vehicles.. that's my 1/50th of a dollar bill

 

Jags need no more Maint than any Benz AMG, BMW M, or Audi S. That said find a good Independent in Seattle on yelp or, through the local Jag club (OMG I'm agreeing with lotus). And as for as the drive shaft, my 15 year parts, service rep at what was Alverez Jag, and will be Indigo Jag Range Rover has NEVER ordered a replacement an XF drive shaft. not even for a center bearing as they just don't go bad. but the guibo and trans mount DO!
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