Hi All,
I am the owner of a 2012 X351 5.0 . In a previous post going back a few years ago I asked what could be the cause of a ticking sound that my engine makes.
i received some very good replies, i had also taken the car to the Jaguar dealers, several Indy’s and a friend who runs prominent garage where he works on Ferraris , McClarens , and other exotic fast cars. When all was said and done, neither the advice I received from the Forum members or the mechanics could pinpoint the nature of the ticking. The car runs just like it did when new, it now has 70,000 miles, plenty of power and no loss thereof under heavy acceleration.
The Ferrari mechanics advice was to drive it gingerly, which I have not done. It’s now been another 10,000 miles and no change in the noise level of the tick.
I did have both my high pressure fuel pumps replace about 10,000 miles ago and until I read the above post about fuel pump insulation I didn’t know there was any. Could this ticking be coming from the fuel pumps ? What kind of insulation does a fuel pump have ? Is there pictures of it ? I’m not a DIY so I don’t even know what I’m looking for.
Any info on fuel pump insulation would be greatly appreciated.
thanks in advance,
GPK

 

Don't know how many have seen this site but Charm.li is putting all kinds of car service information on their site for free.
Here is a section on the HP fuel system with a few good diagrams that may help show you the insulation covers and how the pumps come off the engine.
5.0L SC Fuel Charging

The pumps have an O-ring and that could be giving you some trouble?




Should pop off and I don't see anything you could damage. The rod that drives the pump is separate from the engine block. So if that is damaged it can be replaced. The spring should have pushed the pump out somewhat when the 2 bolts were removed.

Here is what the rod in the block looks like. You can see the saddle where the spring on the pump rides.





Attached are some pages from the shop manual that could also be of help. Has some more good diagrams of the insulation and how the pumps attach to the block. It's not easy to see this when it's all in the car! That darn passenger side engine mount blocks access from the top and it's not much better coming from underneath either.

I do see where they make mention that the Torx screws need to be backed off one turn at a time.



Don't know how important that is.

Post back how it goes?
.
.
.

 

Those schematics are extremely useful... thank you. Unfortunately, the pump # 1 is not "popping out" on its spring as you indicate once I removed the Torx fasteners. I have reinstalled the Torx fasteners for now and may try doing it "one turn at a time" as you indicate this weekend and see if I get any success from it. If not, I may need to throw the towel in and have the car flat bedded to the dealer.

 

OK sorry to hear that and let's hope someone will see this and jump in. Yes I was not sure how important it was to remove the screws one turn at a time but they made a special mention of it.
The other pump came off OK?
.
.
.

 

nope. can't even get to the other pump without taking this one off and then there's a body cross member blocking access from the front to one of the fuel lines on pump # 2. From the looks of it, one of the fuel lines on pump # 2 will need to be accessed from the front after pump # 1 comes off and then the other fuel line on pump # 2 will need to be accessed from the rear if I can get a #18 wrench onto the nut over the press fitting from a small space between the chassis members. Just no room in there when working on it from under the car. I do not have a car lift , so its car on ramps with me working on it from underneath. I was trying to avoid using jack stands since I am paranoid about bending body work but may need to use it to get some additional room to maneuver. I have the front wheel and the wheel well liner in place - not sure if removing these would enable easier access.

 

Yes it does.
And I don't think I could imagine replacing them without removing the alternator either.

 

One trick I use to gain access and I used it when changing my injectors. The engine mounts have the studs and nuts pointing straight down. Remove both nuts and place a piece of plywood on your jack between the pad and the oil pan. Carefully jack the engine up. You can get several inches at least. And ANY increase in working room is pure gold!

It really helps to have 2 people when you do this as shaking the engine a bit while jacking it up helps get the engine mount studs free. This is even more important when coming back down as the stud occasionally does not go back into the hole in the body as it's rubber mounted and can move a bit.

I also jack on one side at a time as jacking the engine up AND tilting it to the side is even more effective.
But I feel for you as there is no room around those pumps to work!
.
.
.

 

Yeahhhh ... this is where it would be more prudent for me to accept the limitations of my abilities and take it to a dealer and have them do it, especially if it involves lifting the engine up from its mounts. Good learning points though. So thank you. I may give it a go one more time with the wheel and the wheel well liner removed to see if I have any success / progress. But if can't get pump # 1 unstuck from where ever the hell its stuck at on the inside, I'll probably have to swallow my ego / pride and take the car in.
I'll update the thread with further developments.

 

There is one, thin, single exposed blue wire that seems to be connected to the alternator. One look at that and I decided to attempt it with the alternator in place. There won't ne enough swear words for me across multiple cultures if I snapped that ...

 

Hey nothing wrong with knowing where to stop! We all have our limitations.
I stole this from the Medical people but "First do no harm". It's FAR better to stop and think BEFORE diving into something that could blow up in your face!
I don't like using the dealer either but this one is a tough repair.
.
.
.

 

Good thing you saw that wire. I somehow broke the one on my Range Rover (same engine) when I was removing the alternator while replacing head gaskets & timing chain parts, I don't remember the specifics of how I broke it, but it looked like a headache.
IIRC it connects to the alternator with a simple spade lug or something common like that, not hard to connect/disconnect unless the wire breaks or pulls out of the crimp.
Fortunately it wasn't too big of a deal to repair the wire while I was putting everything back together.

But I agree, if removing the alternator is intimidating, you'd likely be much better off having a good, honest, reputable mechanic replace the pumps.

 

Just noticed your comment about using jack stands and possible body damage? I have used them many times with no problems. I do support the car where JLR says to. I now have a 2 post lift to help with access. For an old man this is almost mandatory if I plan to keep on doing mechanic work. Just too hard crawling around on the concrete with ramps and jack stands. I got an extra tall one so at the highest point I can walk under the car without hitting my head on the lift arms.
.
.
.

 

Did you have to pull the alternator or could you get the metal bracket over the front fuel pump and the fuel lines off of it without pulling the alternator?

 

To the point I got to, I got the metal bracket over the front HPFP without pulling the alternator. Apologies for the late response. It didn't matter in the end for me since I had the dealer replace the pumps eventually since the front HPFP appeared stuck and would not come out after removing the retaining screws.

 

Glad to hear you got them replaced. Did that fix your problem?
I ask because we don't see a lot of HPFP problems but with time and miles increasing on our cars I am sure we will see more.
.
.
.

 

Yes, but the problem was actually the combined fuel rail temperature/pressure sensor. It is a contortion act to get to. It took 30 minutes once I had a strategy but my arm hurt for a day.

 

Glad to hear it but you needed to replace both pumps and that sensor? Or was it just a sensor problem from the beginning?
Did it set a code? It should have but we have seen people who replaced it with no codes.
.
.
.

 

just the sensor but there might have been a pump sound at 47K miles. My supercharger coupler had significant slack in it and its oil smelled like the WORST fox pee ever; also at 47K miles. It ran really badly and threw a code. I forget which one. Note, that 105F came VERY early in Phoenix, and I ALSO got some horrible running from that with a tank of winter mix gas.

 

Yes and no on fixing the problem after HPFP pump replacement. The starting symptoms returned after a few weeks but without a CEL or any other codes that I could see on the diagnostic scanner (icarsoft V 4.0) that I recently purchased. I did start a separate thread for my issues so as not to clutter this thread up. You have your inputs on that thread and I thank you for those. I am currently monitoring my battery situation to see if it is the current cause of similar symptoms to what I had when I needed the HPFPs replaced.

 

I found that I didn't get all the codes until I bought a $100 Icarsoft scanner specifically for Jaguar/range rover.