Ok, I'm trying to make this seat work outside the car for my man cave, it's a very nice seat. However, Jag won't give me a wiring diagram and that pisses me off. I need to know what wire is hot and ground. I want to be able to move the seat from the position it's in, I want to lean it back, move it around. Can someone please help, it's a 2013 xj x351 passenger 20 way seat. I know it can be moved with a 12 volt battery , please help. Thanks in advance.

 

Wade, try this. If you look at the module attached to the seat, you should see a 14 pin connector that you would be applying power and then another large plug that goes to all the motors in the chair. We are only worried about that 15 pin plug. You are going to connect your ground wires to pins 8 and 10 (these should be 18 gauge wire at a minimum, 16 gauge ideally). The power wires are going to go to pins 6, 12 and 14. You need power to all 3 of these pins. This will give you basic functions of the seat. If you are desiring to have say memory recall or some of the other features, then you will need to get some other exterior modules (can be mounted under the seat) to enable these features.

 

To add - if you have not already done so please remove the side cushion airbag and if still present the seat belt pretensioner and dispose of them safely. You don't want explosives in your man cave. During handling and transport pay attention to the direction of detonation/inflation keeping them away from your body and store where they cannot cause injury.

TOPIx is down for maintenance today, but when it returns I can grab the electrical schematic for a LHD passenger seat if you want a diagram to go with Thermo's description.

That seat spec should have massage ability - those might not be functional independently, however the basic lumbar adjustments should work. Worse case scenario it is just a bunch of motors, solenoids and sensors so you could drive them yourself. An afternoon with an Arduino or similar should lead to something working.

 

I cut the connector off so I could try and power the wires directly, so I need to know what color wires to apply power to and which to ground? Do I ground both of the large black wires? Also, what other functions are possible, heat, cool? I bought the seat for cheap out of a wrecked xj, but it's in immaculate shape. Please help with the color code wires, I really appreciate it, I'm so frustrated.

 

I cut the connector off so I could try and power different wires, so I need to know what color the hot ones are and do I ground the 2 large black wires? Also, what about massage ability , heat, cool, ? I'm not worried about memory recall, just would like to move chair , including lean back, forward, inflate the back in and out, you know the place where your back is, also move the seat up, down, to where it's comfy. Basically all the rocker switches on the side. Thank you so much. I'll pay you for this info.

 

How do I remove the airbag and pretensioner? I am mechanical, just never done that on a seat before. Is the tensioner on the seat belt? Also, can I get the massage function to work? The heater and cooling? If not it's cool, but I would love to be able to use all the rocker switches to adjust the seat, including lumbar adjustment, up, down, back, forward, and lean seat back. Please help, I'll pay you for your time and trouble. Thanks so much.

QUOTE=xdave;1660666]To add - if you have not already done so please remove the side cushion airbag and if still present the seat belt pretensioner and dispose of them safely. You don't want explosives in your man cave. During handling and transport pay attention to the direction of detonation/inflation keeping them away from your body and store where they cannot cause injury.

TOPIx is down for maintenance today, but when it returns I can grab the electrical schematic for a LHD passenger seat if you want a diagram to go with Thermo's description.

That seat spec should have massage ability - those might not be functional independently, however the basic lumbar adjustments should work. Worse case scenario it is just a bunch of motors, solenoids and sensors so you could drive them yourself. An afternoon with an Arduino or similar should lead to something working.[/QUOTE]

 

Wade, If you have the whole control module for the seat, then this becomes much, much easier. But, due to some confusion that I have, I have also included the wiring on how to make each individual motor work, just in case.

If you have the plug that goes into the electronics module for the seat, then you will want to find the yellow/red wire, the brown/red wire, and the blue/red wire. These get attached to your positive wires. The three black wires get attached to your negative (ground) wire. All of these wires are coming off of the seat control module.

To make the climate control work, you will need to find the red wire, gray/red wire, and the blue gray wires. These will all get tied to the positive. You then have 2 black wires that will get tied to negative (ground). All of these wires are coming off of the seat climate control module. This is a different module than the seat control module.

If you cut the connector off of the electronic module (getting rid of the modules), then this is going to be a "fun" job. Keep in mind that each function of the seat needs 2 wires run to it and its own switch to control the function. Using the switches on the side of the seat is no longer an option as they are not designed to handle the motor power. They are only meant to handle a milliamp control signal, not a 10 amp pull from a positioning motor. so, keep that in mind.

With that being said, the motors work by reversing the polarity of the wiring to the motors to control which way the seat goes. So, you will need a whole slew of double pole, double throw (DPDT) switches, each one rated for 10 amps. The wiring will be something like this:

Seat Height:
Blue/white wire: Positive to raise the seat, negative to lower
yellow/orange wire: Negative to raise the seat, positive to lower

Seat position forward/reverse:
Green/blue wire: Positive to move forward, negative to move backwards
Green/white wire: negative to move forward, positive to move backwards

Seat cushion extender:
Violet (purple) wire: positive to extend the cushion, negative to retract the cushion
White wire: negative to extend the cushion, positive to retract the cushion

Seat recline:
Violet(purple)/orange wire: positive to lay the seat back, negative to sit upright
Gray/brown wire: negative to lay the seat back, positive to sit upright

Seat tilt:
Violet (purple)/gray wire: positive to make front of seat go up, negative to make front of seat go down
Gray/yellow wire: negative to make front of seat go up, positive to make front of seat go down.

Head restraint:
Brown wire: positive to raise, negative to lower
Green wire: negative to raise, positive to lower.

As for the lumbar support, this is where things can get a little goofey. Hopefully you did not take the lumbar switch pack out of the seat. If not, then you will need to attach the positive to the blue/red wire and the negative to the black wire (pin 12 coming off of the switch pack that controls the lumbar support). if you cut this, you will have 4 solenoids to wire up and a pump that you will need to push multiple buttons at the same time to make the bolsters inflate/deflate properly.

As for the cooled/heated seats, having the module that controls this is going to be in your best interest. This is not only for a simplicity sake in wiring, but it is more of a safety thing. The seat has built in excessive heat sensors that will shut the seat down should it get too hot. I cannot recommend using the seat heater without having the over temp circuit working.

Just to ask a silly question, but how do you plan on powering the seat? The reason why I ask, the heated/cooled seats are going to require roughly a 40 amp, 12 VDC source just to run the functions. If you have the seat heater going and you want to move the seat, then you are going to need another 5 amps per function that you move (ie, if you push 2 buttons at the same time, 2 x 5 is 10 amps, adding in the 40 for the seat climate control, you will need a 50 amp source). This is where finding a power source capable of something like this make make the cost of the seat not practical. If you are simply moving the seat around, you can get away with a simple 1 amp/12 VDC source and then wiring up say a small 7 Ah battery between the power source and the seat. That way, the power source charges up the battery and when you pull the high current to move the seat, the battery will move the seat. This system works since the seat movement will be in short bursts. Where the seat climate control will be on for long periods of time, requiring more power than a battery can provide.

If you need more assistance, let me know. I do wiring for a living and playing with automotive wiring is a hobby of mine.

 

Well, I did not cut off the 14 pin connector to the mmm module, I cut off the other connector with the big wires. Having said that do I connect the 8,10, and 6,12,14 wires to the connector or straight into the module? Can I not just power it with a 12 volt car battery to move the seat around? I'm not worried about the cooling, heating now, but I want to move the seat around. Are you saying that the buttons on the side will not work now? What size battery do I use to power the seat just to move it around? I really appreciate your help. If your in the USA, you can contact me at 601 832 4530 and no I won't blow up your phone, lol. I just need help. I attached several pics. This is the module
This is the 14 pin connector

 

All the modules are on the bottom of the seat. Can I not just connect wires to the modules? Or do i connect them to the connector when it's unplugged from the module? Or do i wire into the connector and then plug the connector into the modules? Sorry, I'm not used to this much wiring, if u can explain exactly how and were I connect, I can do it. In addition the lumbar, headrest, cooling modules are all on the bottom the seat. I'm just confused as to how to connect them. Wires into the module or connector or connected to both. For the headrest , heating, cooling do I run a seperate power source, if so, what size battery. Also, again, do i connect my wires into module or connector for each function.


QUOTE=Thermo;1660974]Wade, If you have the whole control module for the seat, then this becomes much, much easier. But, due to some confusion that I have, I have also included the wiring on how to make each individual motor work, just in case.

If you have the plug that goes into the electronics module for the seat, then you will want to find the yellow/red wire, the brown/red wire, and the blue/red wire. These get attached to your positive wires. The three black wires get attached to your negative (ground) wire. All of these wires are coming off of the seat control module.

To make the climate control work, you will need to find the red wire, gray/red wire, and the blue gray wires. These will all get tied to the positive. You then have 2 black wires that will get tied to negative (ground). All of these wires are coming off of the seat climate control module. This is a different module than the seat control module.

If you cut the connector off of the electronic module (getting rid of the modules), then this is going to be a "fun" job. Keep in mind that each function of the seat needs 2 wires run to it and its own switch to control the function. Using the switches on the side of the seat is no longer an option as they are not designed to handle the motor power. They are only meant to handle a milliamp control signal, not a 10 amp pull from a positioning motor. so, keep that in mind.

With that being said, the motors work by reversing the polarity of the wiring to the motors to control which way the seat goes. So, you will need a whole slew of double pole, double throw (DPDT) switches, each one rated for 10 amps. The wiring will be something like this:

Seat Height:
Blue/white wire: Positive to raise the seat, negative to lower
yellow/orange wire: Negative to raise the seat, positive to lower

Seat position forward/reverse:
Green/blue wire: Positive to move forward, negative to move backwards
Green/white wire: negative to move forward, positive to move backwards

Seat cushion extender:
Violet (purple) wire: positive to extend the cushion, negative to retract the cushion
White wire: negative to extend the cushion, positive to retract the cushion

Seat recline:
Violet(purple)/orange wire: positive to lay the seat back, negative to sit upright
Gray/brown wire: negative to lay the seat back, positive to sit upright

Seat tilt:
Violet (purple)/gray wire: positive to make front of seat go up, negative to make front of seat go down
Gray/yellow wire: negative to make front of seat go up, positive to make front of seat go down.

Head restraint:
Brown wire: positive to raise, negative to lower
Green wire: negative to raise, positive to lower.

As for the lumbar support, this is where things can get a little goofey. Hopefully you did not take the lumbar switch pack out of the seat. If not, then you will need to attach the positive to the blue/red wire and the negative to the black wire (pin 12 coming off of the switch pack that controls the lumbar support). if you cut this, you will have 4 solenoids to wire up and a pump that you will need to push multiple buttons at the same time to make the bolsters inflate/deflate properly.

As for the cooled/heated seats, having the module that controls this is going to be in your best interest. This is not only for a simplicity sake in wiring, but it is more of a safety thing. The seat has built in excessive heat sensors that will shut the seat down should it get too hot. I cannot recommend using the seat heater without having the over temp circuit working.

Just to ask a silly question, but how do you plan on powering the seat? The reason why I ask, the heated/cooled seats are going to require roughly a 40 amp, 12 VDC source just to run the functions. If you have the seat heater going and you want to move the seat, then you are going to need another 5 amps per function that you move (ie, if you push 2 buttons at the same time, 2 x 5 is 10 amps, adding in the 40 for the seat climate control, you will need a 50 amp source). This is where finding a power source capable of something like this make make the cost of the seat not practical. If you are simply moving the seat around, you can get away with a simple 1 amp/12 VDC source and then wiring up say a small 7 Ah battery between the power source and the seat. That way, the power source charges up the battery and when you pull the high current to move the seat, the battery will move the seat. This system works since the seat movement will be in short bursts. Where the seat climate control will be on for long periods of time, requiring more power than a battery can provide.

If you need more assistance, let me know. I do wiring for a living and playing with automotive wiring is a hobby of mine.[/QUOTE]

 

Here are some pictures. First is a picture of the bottom of the seat, then the 2 connectors I cut off. I can re wire the connectors if I have to. Please advise. Thanks. Big connector i cut, i can wire it back if i have to, i assume these are seat controls
Bottom of seat
Last connector i cut, i can wire it back if necessary. I have no idea what these control.





[/QUOTE]

 

Wade, for the moment, lets not worry about the heating/cooling aspect of the seat. I think you will find that the power requirements for this is going to make it not very realistic using a 12VDC system.

As for powering up the seat itself, I am picturing a battery similar to this to power it:


This should give you the power you need to make the seat do the minor adjustments that you are after. Also, with a common battery charger, you can recharge it as needed. Otherwise, you can simply take a power supply like:


You then wire this to the battery in addition to all the wires. Based on the number of wires, odds are, you are going to want to think about getting some sort of terminal strip that will allow you to have a single point to attach the power to. I am thinking something like:


If you look just above the terminal strips, you can see the red and black pieces with all the forked pieces on the end. These forked pieces get installed on one side of the terminal block and short all of the terminals together. That will allow you to say attach the battery to one end, the next terminal will get the 12V power supply I showed you, then the other 3 terminals get the power wires to make the seat move. Then on the ground side you can take a black shorting bar, install that on one side of a terminal block and at one end connect the negative of the battery, the next terminal would get the negative from the power supply, then the remaining terminals can get the black wires from the seat. Hopefully that explanation is clear enough for you. If not, let me know and I will make a little drawing.

As for this project, before we get going too far and start applying power and leading ourselves down a rabbit hole, these start with taking every wire and insulating it with a little bit of electrical tape. This will help preventing a nice fireworks show from happening when you apply power.

Next, the plug that you are worried about at this point is the black plug that you show in Post #8(number is written on the right side of the post). If you look on that plug, you should see some small numbers molded into the plastic. When I say Pin X (where X is a number), it will refer to this number. If you look on the gray plug, you can see the small numbers written on the end where the plug would fit into the socket. The black one doesn't have the numbers in the same place, but should be on the socket. Worst case, I will tell you how to reference Pins 1, 7, 8, and 14. Once you know where those are, you can count the rest out. The plugs are numbered where 1 is on one side with 2 next to it, then 3, on down the same side of the plug, until you hit 7. Pin 8 is across the plug from 7 and counts on until you hit 14 (so Pins 1 and 14 are across from each other). Looking at the bottom picture in Post #8, that would appear to be the plug you want. In short, you should see 3 black wires and 3 wires with color. The 3 black wires go together to the negative of the battery. The 3 color wires will go to the positive of the battery. That should make the seat move.

Looking, I have the diagrams for a 2012 XJ, but that only came with the 12 way seats, not the 20 way. There appears to be a slightly different configuration inside the plug (ie, the 2012 has a wire at both ends on the side that has the 5 pins side by side, where your 2013 has all the wiring at one end of that plug) between the two years. But, with the info I gave you you should have enough to get things up and running. The big thing will be taking that black plug, tracing the wires back far enough that you can get to cut ends and then start joining the wiring as needed to make the seat work.

 

Ok, thanks, I got it all working, hooked it to a car battery for testing. I also have a battery charger I can covertly hide and connect to batter and charge with 2 amp or fast charge 12 when I need it. One question, the only thing I can't get to work are the side bolsters, see picture with buttons 3 and 4. Do you know what color wires I use to power these. Also, just curious it works in short burst like you said, why does it not work as long as I hold the button down. On a gmc, I took a seat out and powered it with a battery and it worked as long as I held down a specific button, it was not is short burst. Just curious. If you could just tell me what powers the side bolsters (see pic). I greatly appreciate all the help, your a super smart guy. Oh, how do i take out the airbag on the right side or disable it. Thanks

 

Wade, this is where you will need to find the switch pack module for the seat. The side bolsters are powered from that. Atleast for the 2012 seat, the power came from the blue/red wire and the ground was the black wire coming from this module.

With this being said, you will also need to find the black wire coming off of the pump itself and attach that to ground too as this is a separate wire that grounds through the seat module itself. Along these same lines, you should also see 2 other black wires coming off of the switches that lead back to the seat module. You will need to make sure that those are also grounded. All 3 of these black wires are tied to a common point that then goes to ground. But, with the current state of the seat, I cannot be sure what you may have to deal with.

As for being smart, I would not say that. I am just someone that knows how to read the diagrams and all the little information that they hide in them. I also have a lot of practical experience in making things work. Life on a submarine taught me a lot. Then mix in some "lets see if we can make this work" when it comes to cars and you can make some really interesting things happen.

 

Ok, everything is working but the lumbar

 

Wade, the pump is what causes the lumbar support to fill up and give you the support that you need. It may also do the side bolsters. So, you get the pump to run when you need to add air to the lumbar, you should be good. That is why I was saying that finding the switch module is important. That has all the logic for turning the air pump on and off.

 

Does your schematic not show where the lumbar switch module is ? I mean no one will tell me any info besides you. Do you have any additional info as to which module is the lumbar and how to rum the pump? It has to be on the seat, nothing was taken off. Can you help or what can I do? The modules are not labeled. Thanks

 

Also, where is the massage switchback and heating, cooling switchback? If I wired those up, how and what would I add to the seat to turn on massage feature and turn on regulate heat, cool function? These controls are on the control screen on the car, but it's just wires, motors, modules, I know this can be done. Do u know how and what I would connect to seat to control climate control and massage. I can put enough power to it for it to work, just need wiring assistance and some type of control for these functions, thanks. How do I get a total wiring diagram and switch pack module location for this seat? Thanks.

 

Also, just for clarification purposes, I do in fact have the 2013 20 way seat with massage and climate functions, I confirmed that with vin number from the vehicle. Are these 2 modules attached to the seat or on the floorboard. Thanks

 

Wade, there is yet another module in the seat that is for the heating and cooling. You would need to find the brown/green wire going to that module to supply power. When power is applied, the seat is going to heat up. You will then also need to tie the black wire to your ground. As for how well the seat may work, I am not sure as I know the seat heat level is controlled from the radio and there is a data line into the module, but what you would need to do to make the seat produce heat is beyond what I know how to do.

As for the location of the modules, the climate module is in the front edge of the seat in the outside corner (under where your right knee would be). As for the other modules, the diagrams I have only show the inter-relationships between the modules, not where they are located in the seat. I wish I could be of more help, but short of giving you a few wires to find in specific locations on the connectors to a module, that is the only way I would have for you to figure out what module does what. And that may not be good enough as your seat is wired slightly different than the diagrams that I have.

 

Dear Wade and Thermo,
I just came across your post and it is related to a project I am about to start next week on my 2011 Jaguar XF front seats. They are a bit damaged and do not offer good support.
I have bought 2 seats from a 2013 X351 XJ XJL. Picture attached below.



These seat are available in the XFR models from 2009 - 2015, so they should also fit my XF 3.0 TDI (211 hp). My seats are heated but not air cooled, but the new ones are and the new ones also have adjustable side bolster support, which currently I do. to have.

Basically my question is whether the sockets form the floor of my car will support all functionality for the movements, including side bolsters? I presumed that all I would need would be the basic power connector and everything else would be then taken over my the seat modules and motors. From your discussions this may not be true I realise. I may therefor have to play around with a lot of wires to reconnect different interfaces.
Any experience with this?
I do not expect the air cooler fans to work as this is controlled differently by another module operated by the touch screen (like the heated seats).

Would I need to install additional modules in the car to make everything functional (including seat position memory)?

would really appreciate some help before I start but will of course post my progress when I start.