Not that it makes much difference but I bought my 308 or xj8 VDP because the car was to good to pass up and I always wanted one. I drove it to work once and for the most part everyone said that is what a car should look like. The modern SUV owner in So California does not go into the mountains or off roading hell have you seen them trying to park??? I love large sedans lots of room, rides great drives really great and the power is just waiting for the touch. So for me you can keep the crossover/ suv I'am going to Costco to fill up myself with free food driver and I will take the large all four can sit in comfort anyday let's go to Las Vegas.....anytime.

 

My wife is disabled and hasn't been able to drive for more than ten years. I split my time between four vehicles: the Jaguar XJL, a 4x4 Lincoln Navigator, a Ford Mustang convertible, and for when I really want to attract attention, a Ford Pinto. Each has its merits and fills a different need/desire for me. Six of us went out for dinner last night so the Navigator was the ride of choice and, believe it or not, it is very comfortable and smooth. If we had been a party of four, I would have more likely taken the Jag. If it had been just the wife and I, the Mustang would have probably been our choice. The Pinto is driven back and forth to car shows and whenever I'm feeling especially old, because it tends to help me relive my youth.

Dwayne

 

Dwayne, your garage sounds nearly identical to mine as far as types of vehicles are concerned and I think it's the perfect set-up. I have my 08 LR3 V8 HSE, which was my daily driver up until I purchased my 2013 XJ 3.0 a few weeks ago. It's 7 passenger, so can use it for hauling people or things. Also going to set it up for overlanding now that it's not my daily. The XJ is the Monday-Friday commuter, going out for work events, etc. I have a 2006 XKR convertible for the nice weekends days, and a 1987 XJS for the local show circuit. I'm a big believer in having the vehicle fit the purpose, and I still think large sedans serve a purpose that SUVs can't - so I think they'll be around for the time being albeit sold in smaller numbers.

 

I suppose I'll add my 2 cents on the American pick up discussion. I live in the suburbs of Chicago - somewhat unique in that an hour in one direction takes you to the heart of the city, and an hour in the other takes you to redneck village. As was mentioned in my other post, I'm all for matching the vehicle to the purpose. If you're pulling a 35,000 lb fifth wheel, buy the diesel dually, absolutely. Or if you work in construction or any job that actually requires the capabilities of a full size truck, great buy one.

Issues I have are with the rednecks that buy them just to have a coal-rollin' bully truck. You know, the lifted ones with mud terrains that never see dirt, have obnoxious light bars, air horns, and that belch black smoke. Probably have a confederate flag and a bumper sticker about guns and freedom too. People that like give big American trucks a bad name, and frankly they should just buy a Focus or something since all they do is drive to the bar and Walmart. But I digress. I think the take away here is matching the vehicle to the purpose is what it's all about, and I think that's what both sides are getting at. Certainly there's places in Australia where they make sense and where they don't.

 

Very well stated.

Dwayne

 

Most people can only afford ONE vehicle so they buy one that can do a little bit of everything they want to do. The SUV is about the closest thing to an "all purpose" vehicle as one can get, but its a compromise. Doesn't ride as good as a full-sized sedan or get as good a mileage, but has four doors for easy access; doesn't haul as much as a pickup, but still handles small antique furniture; won't rock climb, but gets around pretty good in the snow, etc. I'm fortunate to have a GT car, a 2-seater (both classics), a pickup truck and at present two sedans tho I plan to divest of the XJ8 once the XF's suspension is done. I prefer to match vehicle to purpose to the extent I can afford and in my mind, even the words "sport" and "sedan" do not ideally go together, again a compromise vehicle aimed at the consumer who can't afford both a sedan for the family plus a sports car for him/herself.

 

Not to be disagreeable or anything, but my Lincoln Navigator rides just as comfortably as my XJL on the freeway, and surpasses the XJL on lesser roads. The Jaguar XJL is, from my own personal observation, probably the harshest riding luxury car on the market; or at least the early ones were. That has been my biggest disappointment but it is what it is. As for mpg, the two are essentially the same. I have a six cylinder Ecoboost in the Navigator and my XJL is a 5.0 liter Supercharged. My last two pickup trucks both had 5.5' beds - a sheet of drywall extended beyond the lowered tailgate. With the second and third seats lowered, the Navigator can handle it with the liftgate closed. Technically, if you have tall cargo (refrigerator or upright freezer) the pickup truck has an advantage, otherwise not so much. I have no interest in rock climbing so we're good there. If I ever have to downsize to a single vehicle, it would be an SUV because, as you pointed out, it's as close to being an "all purpose" vehicle as you can get so long as you get a large enough one. Mini SUV's, mid-size SUV's, and Crossovers don't work for me; otherwise I'd have bought an F-Pace instead.

Dwayne

 

Agreed - wasn't trying to sound pretentious in my post (the combined market value of my 4 vehicles is probably equal to the cost of one brand new, highly optioned XJL for instance and I bought them all used). I too would settle on an SUV if I could only have one car. I suppose my point was that, I would rather have 3-4 cheaper cars that are unique and fit for purpose than 1 brand new "all-around" SUV. But I know I'm in the minority there when considering the general car-buying public.

 

I've bought several brand new pickup trucks, but traditional trucks in the past did not depreciate near as fast as a large, luxury sedan so that seemed to make sense. Even after a truck was a bit worn cosmetically, there was always a big market for used trucks as work trucks. I kind of wonder if the modern short-bed, crew cab luxury trucks might depreciate much more rapidly because of their limited "utility" in a second life for painters, drywall installers, carpet layers, etc. But as for sports and luxury cars, I too have always bought used at 5 to 30 years old. I figure I bought this XF with 28K miles for less than a brand new, stripped down Chevy Malibu. Now why would anyone buy a Malibu?

Part of me wanted to buy a new 2017 Mustang GT. I've restored a few vintage Mustangs but I'd always get beat at the MCA events by older guys who had bought their Mustangs brand new back in the 60s and just took extraordinary care of them. Plus they just always had much more entertaining stories because they'd taken trips in them and gotten into trouble with them when they were still fairly new cars. So I've always thought it would be cool to be able to show a car and say I'm the original owner. If I were going to be able to show a classic car and say I was the original owner, I'd better do in the next couple of years because its looking like I very well could be in a nursing home by the time anything I bought new today would be considered a classic. But I keep telling myself that's not a valid reason for wanting a "new" car.

 

My personal experience has been that pickup truck resale values are still strong. I bought a new 2013 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn 4x4 in December of 2013, a few months after the 2014's hit the market. MSRP on the truck was in excess of $54,000 but with a rebate and year-end clearance pricing, I bought it for $43,000, out the door. In April of this year, after 40 months of ownership, I was given $36,000 trade-in for it against a discounted price on a new Lincoln Navigator. So... it depreciated $7000 in nearly 3 1/2 years. I've seen vehicles drop that much the moment you drive them off the lot!

I've always had expensive taste in vehicles, but am never opposed to practicing thriftiness when possible. Last year I bought a 2015 Ford Mustang convertible, loaded to the hilt, Certified Pre-Owned, for about $15000 less than the same car would have cost me new. Same exact styling, plus I got a seven year warranty. The car was "high mileage" for one year old (26000) but I only drive it about 3000 miles per year (sunny summer days) so that situation is quickly remedying itself; at 31000 miles currently, it is considered average mileage. After next summer, it will enter the "low mileage" range, where the book price will be enhanced by the odometer reading, and that will then continue for as long as I own it. This should help keep my depreciation factor minimized.

I bought my XJL used, but with remaining factory warranty, for less than half what it would have cost new. While there's really nothing I can do to prevent the massive depreciation associated with this type of car, I used it to my advantage when I purchased it, in much the same way as I did with the Mustang. Buy it as cheaply as possible, keep it immaculately clean and properly serviced, and keep the mileage far below average. Because it's in a driving rotation with the Navigator and the Mustang (and I'm the only driver), it is driven only about 5000 miles per year.

I realize that not everyone is able to utilize their vehicles so sparingly but if you can, you can certainly reduce the sting of depreciation.

Dwayne

 

Looks like all sedans are dying, not just large ones...

Ford to stop selling sedans; Blame crossovers, SUVs and pickups

 

As the population ages they prefer cars that are easier to enter and exit. The older folks usually have more money to spend and will buy the higher priced products. Sedans aren't the only vehicles that went away, coupes, especially the American personal luxury types have been dead for over a decade. These were my favorite type of car, but they are somewhat impractical as space utilization was very poor. I'm not surprised that Ford's going to kill off their sedans. Take the Fuzion for example. While the current model is a very competitive product, many buyers in that segment prefer the Accord or Camry. "Premium brands" like Mercedes, BMW and Audi have launched a vigorous assault downmarket and have stolen buyers from Ford and Chevy and the Japanese. Then there is the inroads from what were once lower level manufacturers like Hyundai and Kia. Their products are gaining in reputation and will soon be considered the equal of the Japanese products. So, Ford has been hit from above and below.

Are CUVs and SUVs better than sedans? Generally I think that they are more flexible and useful. Car based designs can achieve pretty good fuel economy numbers.Big trucks are now very comfortable and can optioned up with quite luxurious and convenient interiors.

Things don't look too good for the traditional sedan.

 

I totally have to agree with you about the personal luxury coupes; there are a couple of Coupe Devilles & Mark V's in my background, along with one mid-seventies Thunderbird and a mid-nineties Mark VIII. All that huge car (except the Mark VIII), and a practically useless back seat!
But, oh what style!!!

Dwayne

 

I own a modern version of those, a 2016 392 SRT Challenger, 6 speed manual. THAT is a fun car. And it has plenty of style.

 

I agree whole heartedly that the personal luxury car was brilliant in its time. One of my favorite cars was a 1985 Buick Riviera. It may not have been the most powerful car on the road, but it was a joy to drive and had exactly the right look without being a Cadillac (even if it did look rather like an Eldorado or a Toronado.) I wasn't too worried about practicality in those days. I took the "personal" in "personal luxury car" to heart. It was a car to be enjoyed by the driver, perhaps with one passenger, even though it had decent rear seat room.

Funny thing, though. Now that I am older, I do have a large sedan - the XJL, but my heart really wanted to relive that two-door style, so I got the XKR. Something about looking out over those long hoods just does it for me.

 

I've always thought the X351 XJ would look great as a coupe. Bonus points for pillarless.

 

I rarely ever have a back seat passenger so before I bought the XF, I test drove a Challenger RT in the hopes that it being a fairly large car based on the Chrysler 300, that it would ride better than other sports cars and might make a tolerable daily driver. For comparison, I drove it over the same roads as a Mustang GT from the Ford dealer next door and I have to say even the smaller Mustang has it beat by a mile for ride quality. But despite leather interiors, neither are "luxury" cars and I quickly came to my senses and back to looking at sedans as the longer wheelbase is needed.

Sadly tho, there aren't really any "luxury" sedans anymore either. All manufacturers now seem to think that everything needs to be a "sport sedan". Its ironic that back when I was in my 20s, I would buy a new sports car and it wouldn't be stiff enough so I'd change the suspension and put on bigger wheels and low profile tires to go autocross. Now that I'm older and deteriorated enough to appreciate a luxury car, even sedans all come out of the factory race-ready. I had to buy a "sport sedan" then change the suspension and install smaller wheels with taller profile tires to get it to ride halfway decent. Thankfully there was such a kit available in the aftermarket to soften up the XF but its still not the purpose-engineered magic carpet ride that was the X308.

I bet if they still made sedans that rode like the x308, they'd sell a lot more sedans. After all, when every luxury manufacturer point blank admittedly started going after BMW in the sedan market, that's when sedan sales started to tank. Yes, the old people who were buying sedans like the X308 were dying off, but they failed to realize that young people are where old people come from and there's another generation deteriorating away and lining up to buy something more comfortable next time. The new sedan aesthetics may appeal to the next generation, but now they ride like the sports cars they are outgrowing.

 

What a great looking Challenger!

I also looked at the SRT models and love the look of the car. Kind of did not like the driving position and small side windows.

But one drive in my 2014 XJR completely sold me and I have not looked back. It just drives fantastic and I am smiling when ever I drive it!!
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I totally agree, my Challenger is far far away from being 'luxury' but it does have some amenities and conveniences that were unheard of in muscle cars of the past. And the NAV system is perhaps the best available nowadays.

Jaguar and a few others are synonymous of luxury, no doubt. The V8s (and V12s) offered by all those brands are always a lot of fun as well.


Thanks! When I first drove the Challenger I felt like I'd never get used to the way I sat and the poor visibility. But after some time and seat/steering wheel adjustments I'm now completely used to it. I like how wide the car is.

 

Any plans to take the SRT to the track?
Still planning to run my XJR a few times just for fun.
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