Hello all,
I got a couple of quick questions I hope you guys and gals can help me out with. I am a long time reader/lurker on this forum but don't post all that often. I currently own a 2007 'S' class with 126,000 miles. I am the second owner and purchased the car with 96,000 miles. I love my MB but things are starting to need replacement. I do most of the work myself but the cost of parts, even third party, are extremely expensive. From what I have read, this is going to be a never ending saga with this car. Most everyone on a certain Benz forum I visit dump their cars at 90,000 miles for this very reason. This was our first entry into the luxury market and a necessary one, for my wife sustained a neck injury. The seats in a Ford just don't cut it.

Anyway, onto my dilemma:
I can purchase a 2012 'S' class with <50,000 miles for around $40,000. The payments would be around $800/month. We drive our cars about 20,000 miles a year. So, within 2 years we would have to sell this car for another. With the added mileage I would barely be staying ahead of depreciation. Essentially, I would be paying $800/month to rent a car.

For the same money I can get into a 2013 XJL awd with similar miles. I was hoping with a Jaguar that I could plan on owning the car or at least have the car long enough to go a couple of years without making a payment.

My question is, do you plan on keeping your car beyond 100,000 miles?
I understand that parts on a Jag are probably equally expensive, and I do plan on getting an extended warranty. If I asked this same question on a 'S' class forum almost everyone would respond with a 'NO WAY'!!!

My second question: The nearest Jag dealer to me is in Spokane, 5 hours or 310 miles away. Living in Montana I'm used to having to travel what some would consider a great distance for services. The nearest Benz dealer is 2 hours away and the nearest Audi dealer is 90 minutes.
Is this too great a distance to own a Jaguar? Would you purchase a XJ if the nearest dealer was 310 miles away?

I asked this same question a few years ago after driving an XF. Most people told me this was too great a distance. At this time the XF was a little more than a year old and Jaguar was still working out a few of the bugs. I'm hoping Jaguar has come a long way in terms of perceived reliability and the distance from a dealership has become negligible.

Thanks so much for you advice.

 

I personally don't keep my cars anywhere close to 100,000 miles but a lot of folks on this site do. My XJL just tripped 50,000, my Mustang convertible has 28,000 and my Ram pickup has 23,000. As to distance, my dealer is about two hours away. If the XJ you buy is under factory warranty, Jaguar will pick up the tab for transporting the car to the dealership and back if there's a problem. I experienced a head gasket failure while under warranty and the car was picked up, repaired, and returned at no charge to me! This is my second Jaguar from the same dealership and I do not consider the distance to be an issue.

The problem I see is that if you're driving 20,000 miles per year and purchasing cars that are already at the 50,000 mile mark, and financing them for five years or so, you're never going to get ahead. I know nothing about your financial situation, but I can imagine that it might be hard for some to make a monthly payment of $800 plus pay for the maintenance and repairs that are bound to pop up along the way. If your S Class is paid for, you'd probably be ahead to just keep it and deal with the expenses. If not, then you already know what I'm talking about. Jaguar reliability has improved dramatically in recent years, but no car is infallible. I can appreciate the need for a luxurious ride due to your wife's physical injuries, but I'm wondering in your particular situation if you might be better off to look at some lesser entries in the luxury field. The same amount of money could net you a year old CPO Cadillac XTS or Lincoln MKS. No, they're not in the same league as a Mercedes or a Jaguar, but they are well equipped, comfortable, and much less expensive to maintain. Or, better yet, buy one several years older for half the money, finance short term with the large payment, and have it paid off in a couple of years.

Dwayne

 

The dealer distance would not bother me if that is typical for where you live. Jaguars are not any different from any other car so a good independent garage or other main dealer can service and work on the car just as easily (often better) than a Jaguar main dealer. In the UK I have roadside recovery insurance that will take any car I am travelling in to any repairer of my choice at no additional cost. Even if I am in mainland Europe they will bring me and my car back to the UK. You probably have something similar in the US which you could use if your vehicle was undrivable?

Regarding your main question - I buy cars with the intention of never parting with them. They are not financial investments; they are things I enjoy. I have an X-Type that is 13 years old now with 210,000 miles on the clock and is still drives the same as it did when it had 'only' done 60,000 miles. Maintenance has not been any more or less than other cars. Rubber hoses at 10 years was the most spent on that one, some due to failure and the rest as a preventative measure while they are still available from the parts shelf. I loan that car to a friend as a daily driver and it just keeps on going. My X351 XJL is now six years old and has clocked 100,000 miles as my daily car. I have driven newer XJs with dealer miles on them that have been no smoother. My X350s (similar to the S-Type) have required more maintenance, but mostly I suspect because I bought them at 3 years and the initial owners, who only planned to keep them till the warranty was up, did not bother to look after them. There was a lot of new (to Jaguar) tech in the X350 which was more widely understood when the X351 was designed.

Modern cars are a lot more reliable than they used to be. Major failures with things like engines or transmissions tend to be rare QA failures that flag up and be resolved within the first few years, so buying at three years from a reputable source wouldn't concern me. As you would be getting an extended warranty anyway then even moreso. The X351 shares a lot of parts with other Jag and LR models of the same years and earlier so sourcing many parts is quite easy. Where the expenses will add up is if you use main dealers for labour.

The X351 has been around long enough now that there is historical information about reliability available. I would look at that and pick out a few high and low reviews and investigate why they have been ranked as such. It will help to give you an overview of how they have behaved.

 

Thanks for your advice.
Dga57, I have looked at 'lesser' models such as the MKC, MKZ, MKS, Cadillac, and Audi A8 (I know the A8 isn't a lesser model per se', but it is an option I have considered). The Lincolns and the Caddy do not work for my wife. Tomorrow I'm traveling 90 miles to try a new Continental. If that doesn't work that will pretty much do it for Lincoln. The A8 was pretty nice but I kind of get the impression that they are not cars people hang onto for 150,000-200,000 miles. You hit the nail on the head when it comes to purchasing cars with 50,000 miles already. That is my dilemma. Every other vehicle I own I keep forever and put tons of miles on. I only owe a couple of thousand on my 'S' class, but repairs are crazy expensive. Might need to replace the front differential to the tune of $10,000. High book for the car is $17,000. Members on a Mercedes forum I go to has a saying, "Once a Mercedes hits 100,000 miles it is affordable to purchase but not affordable to own." I'm beginning to see what they are talking about.

So I guess my concern is whether or not a XJL is affordable to own after the 100,000 mile mark. I understand this is a loaded question, I'm just trying to get a general consensus with the Jaguar community.

I'm glad to hear Jaguars reliability has increased substantially. I'm not too concerned about engine and transmission. Anecdotal accounts for the Big German cars suggest that it will be everything else that needs replaced. I'm finding this to be true, at tumultuous cost. No offense, but I'm kinda glad that Jaguar is somewhat considered 'low tech'.

Thanks both of you for your replies, I'm hoping to hear from some others on this site. I would love to have a Jaguar in the driveway!

 

For what it's worth, I have owned two German cars (1 VW and 1 BMW) and three British cars (2 Jaguars and 1 Rolls-Royce). By far, I had much more trouble, and therefore more expense, with the German cars. I'm not really interested in owning any more of them. The head gasket failure on my 2011 XJL is the only major repair I've run into. The Rolls-Royce was relatively trouble free other than routine maintenance and the same goes for the 2004 Jaguar we had. Good luck with whatever you decide.

The new Continental is being highly touted as a true contender; and so is the Cadillac CT6. I have not driven, or even seen, either. I'd be interested in what your thoughts are on the Continental after you've driven one. There are fourteen Lincolns in my past and I still have a fondness for the brand; just not for their recent offerings.

Dwayne

 

underdog01, like what xdave said, if you find a good "local" mechanic that can work on the Jag, you will be far, far ahead. I bought my XJ (2012) with the intention of keeping it for around 15 years (taking the car up to the 300Kish mile area) before moving on to something else. I had driven an X-Type out to 188K miles with minimal work (brakes, shocks, other normal maintenance).

In addition, if you stick with us, we can step you through most problems so you can expect what the repair will most likely be and possibly even fix it yourself. We also know where to get the best prices on parts (JPLV in Las Vegas would be a good source for you).

If cost is a concern to you, take a look at the XF. It is a slight step down from the XJ, but it may still meet your comfort needs and will come with the same power train that is in the XJ which has proven to be reliable.

 

Wow!!! This is all great to hear! Purchasing a car in hopes of keeping it for 300,000 miles is something you would never read on a Mercedes forum.

Xdave, I will have to look into that 'roadside recovery insurance' to see if we have such a thing here. I'm curious if that is what AAA covers.

Xdave and Thermo, yes, finding a local mechanic that could handle the repairs I can't do myself would be a great asset. The problem is, no one around here has ever even seen a Jaguar let alone worked on one. I have had the same issues with my S class. I asked a local A/C repair shop if they could recharge my system. They said all systems were the same and reminded me that this is what they do for a living. I dropped the car off, only to receive a phone call six hours later, with them explaining they had no idea how to charge the system. I had to take the car to the dealer.
I have many stories that end this way, so the S class has me a little gun shy. Even simple things like changing the transmission fluid is not simple with this car. Before I purchased the S class I thought to myself that cars are just nuts and bolts, I can do this. I've been building engines and racing cars for years, always considered myself a gearhead. Problem is its not all gears anymore. I was at the dealer the other day and swear I saw an MRI machine in the shop. WTF!

I will try the XF as well. It is ALL seat dependent. It doesn't have anything else to do with the car. Most cars we have looked at, a test drive wasn't necessary. My wife will spend some time in the car making seat adjustments. We have found that the massage seats are a must though.

We haven't even tried the XJ yet. We know the S class works for my wife, I was just hoping to get into something I could own and keep for a while. This is my attempt at market research before I make the 5 hour trip to my nearest Jaguar dealer. Hope that makes sense.

I will let you know what we think of the Continental. The materials used in the 2017 XKZ were pretty impressive. A huge upgrade from the previous generation. The gap between American luxury and British/German offerings is shrinking. But the Americans still have a way to go. Mostly due to the mass production I think. Of course, the price gap seems to be shrinking as well. We'll see!

 

How about finding the seats of choice from a totalled S-Class of
your choice and transplanting them to a domestic SUV?

If you think Mercedes parts are expensive .... Jaguar parts prices will
make your eyes bleed and head explode. You are guaranteed to need
them because Jaguar loves plastic. The problem is they price
the parts like platinum.

 

The new Continentals offer a 30-way seat package that costs extra but is probably well worth it. Don't know if they massage or not. I agree that the massage is a nice feature, especially on a long trip! Happy hunting and good luck!

Dwayne

 

Since you're in Montana, you may want to consider 2013-up XJ models with AWD to make it through the winters. Here's a good review: https://www.edmunds.com/jaguar/xj/2013/road-test-2/

Another make worth considering is the 2017 Genesis - a lot of car for the money, and available with AWD in both G80 and G90 models: https://www.genesis.com/us/en/genesi...FU46gQodAJsBFQ You can probably buy a brand new G80 with a 100,000 mile warranty for around the cost of a used XJ. Although I love both of my Jaguars, if I were in your position I'd take a serious look at the G80.

 

Plums, Thanks for the idea with switching out the seats. However, I'm afraid just looking at the wiring harness to the seats of my s550 would make my eyes bleed and head explode. You are right about the cost of Jaguar parts. I just did some comparison shopping and found the Jaguar parts to always be more expensive and sometimes considerably more expensive. I guess I will stop complaining about the cost of parts. This wouldn't be a big deal if EVERY part on a mercedes didn't take a crap between 100,000 and 150,000 miles.

StuartS, I am only looking at the AWD cars. I know winter tires like Blizzaks are extremely impressive, and I have used them on RWD cars before with great success. But after driving an AWD car fitted with just all seasons, which do nothing well, I'm sold on AWD. Our S is sure footed as a gorilla.

We got back from checking out the Continental today. The dealership sucked, we were seriously looking over the car for a good 45 min. before someone asked us if we needed any help. Snow storm today, so customers at a car lot on a day like today would be serious. Salesmen just kept pushing us aside on their way to the coffee machine.

They were asking $66,650. The car did look nice, I don't mind the lines on this car, doesn't look like a Jag though. Exterior fit and finish was okay with a typical slight variation in body panel gaps. Nothing too serious though if your not looking for them. The interior however, is a different story. Ford did a wonderful job with the quality of materials. Leather was very supple. Made the leather in our S class look and feel like plether. This particular model did have the 30 way adjustable seats that included the massage feature. My wife enjoyed the seats and said the massage was slightly better than our S class. So, this car is in the running I guess. I hate to buy the first model year, it is sure to have some bugs that will need to be worked out. Also, I found that Ford is releasing an updated version, what Ford calls 'Job 2', that will add some features. This will also be a 2017 model. Imagine the depreciation the current 17's are gonna take mid year. OUCH! I'm not all that intelligent, but I know to wait at least a year before seriously looking at one of these puppies. My whole dilemma has been to get into a reliable car where I won't end up taking a bath in depreciation.

My budget is closer to $40,000, at least I don't want to spend more than that. My wife is really leaning toward the XJ if the seats work for her. So were gonna plan a trip to either Spokane or Vegas in the next month.

I want to Thank everyone here for your advice thus far. Please feel free to continue to comment, I would love to hear your thoughts and ideas.
Thanks again!

 

StuartS, I haven't really considered the Genesis. That's a Hyundai right? I'm not sure what to think. I'm trying to be open minded with finding the car that best suits our needs. But I'm finding myself to be very....prejudiced. Not racist, but prejudiced. I don't know if that makes sense or not. I guess prejudice often doesn't make sense. Hmmm.

 

There is no Genesis dealer in my area so I have not seen one yet, although they appear to be a contender. Considering that Hyundai and Kia both came to America as cheap, throw-away cars, I don't find it particularly prejudiced to be a little put off by their entry into the luxury market. I wouldn't worry too much about it though; both brands have come a LONG way! My cousin bought a Kia K9000 and it is an awesome ride. Other than the badging, there is nothing that would make anyone question its luxury viability. Hyundai is marketing Genesis as a stand alone brand in an effort to overcome preconceived notions. I personally would not be afraid to buy one. Lexus was launched in a similar fashion and they have done quite well.

Dwayne

 

One other factor you may have in your favour with the XJL. Used car prices of luxury sedans have taken a real pounding recently and you can get a great car for a surprisingly modest price. So if I were you I would bargain very hard - and shop around dealers. You can easily fly out and drive it back home!.

 

Dga57, I just looked, there are 3 Hyundai dealers in Mt. I just don't know though. It would take me awhile to warm up to the idea of owning a Hyundai.

BritCars, thanks for your response. I have noticed some pretty good deals out there, but I didn't know to contribute this to regular depreciation or some other factor. I have been looking nation wide and have found some nice cars. Fort Lauderdale seems to have an abundance. I was kind of hoping to find a car here, thought I could work it out to a mini vacation

Is there a reason the market has taken a hit recently?
I guess I don't fully understand this market. I try to stay on top of these trends and buy at the right time, but I feel I am missing something this time around.

 

underdog01, a lot of people saw the market coming back, so they ran out and got their new vehicle hoping for better days. Well, the better days never really showed up and those that waited are going to wait a bit longer and those that bought the new cars do not want to get another. So, the car market as a whole has slowed significantly. This is leading to a back up of cars and people downgrading to get something a bit cheaper. Hence why the higher end cars are dropping in price so bad.

 

Me and my wife have always found the Jaguar seats to be excellent and every year for quite a few years now we have driven to Germany for holidays in one day.That is a 600 mile ride to get there and we aren't tired or stiff when we arrive. OK, we stop for lunch, and do have a 2 hour ferry crossing as well !

So I would have no worries about the seats. Your main problem seems to be a worry about service and maintenance. Yes the main agent may be in Spokane, but there tend to be specialists around the US in European cars. Jaguar have suffered for many years with low sales due to our decades of political madness here in the Uk so are only now recovering. This means shops specialising solely in Jaguars are likely to be rare, but there may be one or two nearer to you than Spokane ! Parts are easily obtained today on the internet, you just have to find the mechanic to fit them ! The suspension on these cars is essentially the same as the Lincoln LS. I believe the engine is also used in some up-market Fords and Lincolns, and the ZF tranmission (made in Germany), is common to Bentley, Rolls-Royce, BMW, and Audi as well as Jaguar.

I must say, though, that when I look at Montana weather, I'm glad I just have to put up with the dampness of English winters ! Google says you get 85" of snow per year. Whow !!

PS: Have you thought about the Jaguar F-pace, a new SUV 4wd ?

 

Would the monthly payment on a newer car not cover an awful
lot of parts on getting the 2007 up to scratch? You were looking
at a $800 monthly loan payment. That's $9600/year.

Just because some owners have problems does not mean all
owners have problems.

Once you have addressed a problem properly, it is unlikely
to rear its ugly head again.

Many owners of older generation Jaguars have baselined
their cars and enjoy a relatively problem free life. For example,
if all the hoses have been done, you are unlikely to be stranded
by a burst hose because they are all "young", not whatever has
been on the car since it left the factory.

Luxury vehicles tend to be first sold as leases where the lease
holders service them accordingly ... ie. only if free under the
lease and they feel like dropping by the dealer. When the warranty
ends and they so much as have to pay for an oil change they go nuts
on forums about perceived unreliability because they never expected
to pay anything other than the lease payment.

 

Fraser Mitchell, thanks for your reply, I have never thought how the political madness, as you put it, would have such great affect on car sales. Here, in America, car sales seem to be driven solely by the (perceived) economy. With exceptions shortly before and after our elections.
I was thinking the same thing with finding other shops that could work on Jaguars. The problem I'm running into is no one around here has even seen a Jaguar let alone worked on one. I think our S class has got me a little gun shy with luxury cars. The S needs to be hooked up to a Mercedes proprietary computer to do just about anything. A well respected local shop couldn't even flush the transmission fluid. It sounds like a Jaguar is a little more shade tree mechanic friendly. This is more in line to what I'm looking for.

85" seems like a lot of snow! I bet we don't get more than 82"
I just started looking at the F Pace last night. It is definitely something to look at pretty seriously. My only concern is that it is referred to as a sporty SUV. I associate 'sporty' with a firm suspension. 'Sporty' sounds appealing, but I'm looking for soft and comfortable. Only a test drive can tell. This gives me at least 2 vehicles to look at in Spokane or Vegas.

Plums, thanks again, yes, $9600 a year 'should' replace a lot of parts. My issue is I need to replace the front differential to the tune of $10,000. I have already spent a couple of grand making repairs. Nothing serious, just repairs I would need to make on most any car with 126,000 miles. But I've been told by a lot of people with experience (Mercedes Benz S class forums) that this will never end with this car. The usual consensus is that this car will cost me $7,000-10,000 yearly, with positive thinking people proposing $5,000-8,000. It's all the electronics that kill you with these cars. I don't wish to throw good money after bad, and I'm afraid that may be where I'm at with this car. My problem is with my wife's medical condition. I need a car that is comfortable to drive, and I have found only the luxury market offers the comfort my wife needs. I've tried most everything locally, but nothing even comes close.

Quote: (sorry I had trouble with the quote thing and had to retype this whole thing twice now. Not chancing it again)
"Many owners of older generation Jaguars have baselined
their cars and enjoy a relatively problem free life. For example,
if all the hoses have been done, you are unlikely to be stranded
by a burst hose because they are all "young", not whatever has
been on the car since it left the factory."

This is what I'm after!!! This is my goal. This is something you would never read on a Mercedes forum. Thank you.

 

"Is there a reason the market has taken a hit recently"

Agree some reasons listed above. But also trends are shifting and people are increasingly looking for luxury crossover or luxury SUV vs luxury sedan. So the same reason that the F-Pace is the fastest selling Jag / that's what a lot of people want now