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How much longer will the X300 be considered a "Modern" Jaguar?
The X300s are the most aged of the group "Modern" here at JF. The big transition to "Classic" could be near. Are we waiting for the age of 25? Some states will give out "Historic Vehicle" plates at that point. Regardless, I think the X300 definitely has an important place in the history of Jaguar.
The X300 was a bridge between the 80s vintage XJ40 and the up-and-coming V8 powered Jags. It had been decided that the body style could be implemented before the new V8, so we have a mix of older and newer in the X300, with the body style continuing essentially unchanged until 2003. The I6 and V12 were improved for their last generation. They were made OBDII compliant (more or less) for the USA. The first supercharged engine was added to the lineup.
The XJ40 and XJS sections were moved to "Classic" long ago. The last of those vehicles were produced in 1994 and 1996. Of course, the first of their productions were much earlier, 1987 and 1976 or so, and that is a consideration.
When X300 goes classic, I think the X308 XJ8 should stay behind at "Modern". The X308 is considerably (I think) more advanced, despite sharing the body style. But you could say the body style looks "classic"...
Now, the Modern section includes the XF. Seems odd that the X300 would be included with it and the last generation XK!
Eventually, we will go to the "Classic" section. How do we feel about that? Would it be a good thing? Would it make any difference? Let's discuss.
There are many definitions of "classics" in the motoring world. Alfa Romeo celebrated 164's 30th Anniversary just a few months ago, but no one seem bothered to lift it to the Classics category. I find it interesting and encouraging that this forum is still so interactive on the X300 model that has already crossed the 25 years' threshold. The Alfa 164 forums elsewhere are getting very quiet so one wonders if the Alfa virus in the legendary 164 is going to be passed on to the next generation. In contrast, many X300's are still running some even as daily drivers, with periodic new comers obsessed with the model and willing to keep it long as well as investing in all sorts of upgrades. In the UK any cars 20 years or older qualify to be recognized as "classics" in so far motoring insurance and tax purposes. Our buddies in the UK may have more insights here about the advantage and disadvantage of the "Classics" status.
In my view, compared with the many older siblings in the Jaguar family, X300 is perhaps not in the "vintage" category, but given its age and the factors you nicely put together, in every sense it is a classic to all the owners themselves, or else they would have given up the car.
I personally would favour X300 being recognized as Classics. Once all the dogs have perished and the surviving population remains stable, and X300's second hand prices start to climb, various OEM or aftermarket manufacturers might be more willing to re-produce, at reasonable prices, new parts for the X300. This is important for keeping them on the road. Many local authorities have very strict annual roadworthiness tests (emission, coachwork, steering, brakes, etc.), but the lack of new factory parts and aftermarket or universal products are increasingly weakening the owners' determination to keep the car. In the UK, many used X300s are available in the market at humiliating prices, for parts, repair, projects, or restoration. In Hong Kong, most X300 or even later models are selling at very low prices, in the range of US$650-1,000. The dealer is a party to blame. Not only that its parts' prices are impossible but it also does not keep stock for such old models as X300 (not even younger model like the XFR), and a parallel importer is selling parts at 60% of the dealer's price, which is still far from reasonable when compared with UK-direct prices. The very small market for Jaguar and particularly the X300 means very few workshops are willing to work on them, or bother to invest in Jaguar specific tools and older Jaguar scanning devices like IDS and SDD. The hit on owners due to lack of parts, high prices and very insufficient local expertise and repair experience are pushing people away from acquiring used Jaguars in Hong Kong. I believe the situation is the same elsewhere. The brighter side is the availability of various online resources such as the Jaguar Forums and JagRepair.com are so generous in sharing DIY tips, factory technical guides, etc. that help is readily available and no one is left alone. The more open and accessible data and technical support are, and the easier to obtain consumable or semi-consumable parts (like the exhaust manifolds, transmission mounts, etc) at affordable prices, the longer and more affordable is for X300 owners to keep the car as a running Classic, not one in storage or occasional drive.
Last edited by Qvhk; 11-29-2017 at 05:19 AM.
Reason: clean up typos
I would be pleased to have it relegated to classic.
I describe it as a modern classic. It has an old school feel and style but with relatively few modern bells and whistles.
It straddles a line between analog and digital era cars. The end of an an era, really, of cars that one could reasonable work on in a home shop and one that needs the high tech equipment to repair.
One test...would it be chased away at a British car show. I don't think so....
..... It has an old school feel and style but with relatively few modern bells and whistles....It straddles a line between analog and digital era cars. The end of an an era, really, of cars that one could reasonable work on in a home shop and one that needs the high tech equipment to repair....
Yeh, and it is also one of the very rare cars that you smell premium leather when you enter the cabin. How mine still does after 22 years is simply amazing.
For me, Classic covers the Bill Lyons era vehicles, Modern, the BL/Ford era and Current is anything in production.
It's an age thing. If I was under thirty then anything from the last century wouldn't qualify as Modern but I purchased my first XJ6 Series One when it was still in production.
If anything, we probably need to split the Modern category. There was a seismic shift between the steel bodied X308 and aluminium bodied X350 just as with the original steel XK8 and the later aluminium XK. It wasn't just design and build - it was the real start of user interfaced electronic systems which makes those earlier cars feel rather quaint. That's not to disparage them in any way. They are still wonderful cars to own and drive but the World has changed since their inception.
The question is half philosophical and half technical. How do we feel about the X300 as a classic, and in which category on JF does it make sense for it to reside?
I think most owners and lay-people would feel comfortable calling it a classic. But not a classic in the sense of the E-type, Series cars or older cars. More of a "Modern Classic". It's looks and, as you prudently pointed out Graham, complete lack of electronic interfaces seen these days (ok, we have OBDII), give it a classic quality. Even the X308 and XK8 had navigation interfaces in the later models.
But I don't believe for a second that the Classics section would welcome the X300 with much enthusiasm! The XJ-S resides there as I feel it deserves, despite the "modern classic" newer facelifts. The XJ40 is squeezed in there too. In reality, the XJ40 is more similar to the X300 than to the Series saloons. I think most here would agree.
I really like the idea of a separate "Modern Classics" category for the X300. Perhaps it could also include the first-gen XJ8 and XK8, the XJ40, and the facelift XJS. That's not many categories, but broadly speaking, back in the day there were really only two kinds of Jags-the sedan and the sports model! I wonder how the other groups would feel (and think) about this?
Well, I've helped myself to clear up how I feel! From now on, I think I will refer to my car as a "modern classic", as does Ric. I am in favor of a Modern Classics category. At least, it's an idea that we can toss around a bit.
Last edited by SleekJag12; 12-01-2017 at 12:41 AM.
I just bookmarked the X300 and X200 forums so I click the button...doesn't matter to me which section either is in. I only go looking when I want to venture into "off topic" or the "For sale" forums
The I6 and V12 were improved for their last generation.
Last generation. That's significant....for me, at least.
"Big six" and "V12" engines are very much a part of Jaguar's heritage. Moving to a V8 was Jaguar saying "OK, the past is the past. it's time to finally move on"
So, for me, that would be a justification to move "X300" to the classics section....although, truthfully, it really doesn't matter to me personally. The important thing is that we keep talking about them !
Last generation. That's significant....for me, at least.
"Big six" and "V12" engines are very much a part of Jaguar's heritage. Moving to a V8 was Jaguar saying "OK, the past is the past. it's time to finally move on"
So, for me, that would be a justification to move "X300" to the classics section....although, truthfully, it really doesn't matter to me personally. The important thing is that we keep talking about them !
Cheers
DD
I don't care what class it sits in here at the forum either honestly. The car clearly is a classic in every sense of the word. I don't think you'd be turned away at a car show with it.
I think that is what gets me about the car.
The architecture, the suspension, the feel, the big six are all vintage feeling.
It shares suspension parts with an XK120 (at least a few bushings).
It shares the layout (with exception of outboard brakes and single shocks) with every jag ever to come before it.
It is sort of cramped and hard to get into for a bigger guy.
But the systems are modern and reliable (Shhhh did I say that out loud?) and it has airbags and abs and some modern conveniences...so some digital.
It really does straddle digital and analog. Much the way the classic BMW E30 3 series does.
I do think that these will be going up in value as time goes on. Certainly can't get much lower.
"Up for sale is this beautiful 1997 SHAGUAR XJ6. This pimpin purple jag runs and drives great, gets you from your main chick to your side hoe in no time with the powerful 4.0 liter inline 6 cylinder motor and automatic transmission. Heat works good but you won't need that with the heat coming from the ladies you'll have in this car and the AC works but you don't need that seeing how ice cold cool you gotta be to drive this thing!"
It only needs some pimpin' wheels! The cute 16" dimples aren't selling me on it. Lol.
I won't worry myself anymore about the perfect category for my modern classic. It would probably be too bothersome to try to re-categorize the other models too. Not really worth the effort, and not all that important. Like Doug says, we will keep them alive no matter what category they are in! It's that simple.
So are the values rising on these? Bring a Trailer results would indicate yes....$8000 95 VDP with bad clear coat but otherwise nicely presented.
Hard to tell if the overall market is increasing from a single sale.
This car has some plus-factors but to be honest I think the buyer simply paid too much....$8000 for a car with weak paint?.....which can sometimes happen in a bidding environment.
With average-good examples aplenty in the $3000-5000 range I'd expect $8000 to buy the finest example in existence !
Yeh, body work is a pain to fix and paint work can cost a fortune if done really well - not a very justified spending given the overall market value of the car, unless wanting to make a near mint one perfect for the museum or long-term storage as a future collectible.
11-29-2017, 01:27 AM
How much longer will the X300 be considered a "Modern" Jaguar?
I'm about done I think after 17 years, its now my airport car and is in triage; maintenance and that's it.